There's a huge new migrant issue unfolding. So why isn't there any real debate about THIS one?

[cyril evans awaydays]

I thought the article was rambling but not racist. It seems to shout that all this noise about asylum seekers and Rwanda is drowning out the real issue but then gets scared of the audience and shouts that's really important as well.

Immigration was perhaps the major driver for many working class people who voted for Brexit. There was little discussion at the time that half the immigrants came from non-EU countries over which we had control of movement already. The article suggests that the overall net numbers have not shifted, just the balance of where these people came from.

I never got the sense that the libertarians driving Brexit worried too much about immigration. It was just a useful vehicle for their own ends. In other instances those from existing migrant communities may have voted to leave to increase the chances of people from their ancestoral homes coming to the UK.

I tried and failed to find details on where recent migrants have come from, though the article does explain that the expansion of student numbers is a major contributor. Slightly ironic in the week that Liz Truss is encouraging us all to wean ourselves off China that the ability of the Home Office to issue visas to Chinese students shows no sign of slowing.

How the Daily Mail starting to blow the horn on wider immigration will play with its readers will be interesting. They could ask for instance who has been in power whilst hordes of people have been "swamping" the country.

It will also be interesting to see when new post-Brexit trade deals come on stream how much easier it will be for people wanting to work and study in this country to be able to do so, further increasing numbers. Trade deals by their very nature (the EU one excepted) involve a loss of sovereignty as goods, capital, services and more pertinently, labour cross barriers more easily.

Not much discussion on whether all this migration benefits the UK at all, certainly not in the article itself, but I guess that's the nature of this particular beast.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I thought the article was rambling but not racist. It seems to shout that all this noise about asylum seekers and Rwanda is drowning out the real issue but then gets scared of the audience and shouts that's really important as well.

Immigration was perhaps the major driver for many working class people who voted for Brexit. There was little discussion at the time that half the immigrants came from non-EU countries over which we had control of movement already. The article suggests that the overall net numbers have not shifted, just the balance of where these people came from.

I never got the sense that the libertarians driving Brexit worried too much about immigration. It was just a useful vehicle for their own ends. In other instances those from existing migrant communities may have voted to leave to increase the chances of people from their ancestoral homes coming to the UK.

I tried and failed to find details on where recent migrants have come from, though the article does explain that the expansion of student numbers is a major contributor. Slightly ironic in the week that Liz Truss is encouraging us all to wean ourselves off China that the ability of the Home Office to issue visas to Chinese students shows no sign of slowing.

How the Daily Mail starting to blow the horn on wider immigration will play with its readers will be interesting. They could ask for instance who has been in power whilst hordes of people have been "swamping" the country.

It will also be interesting to see when new post-Brexit trade deals come on stream how much easier it will be for people wanting to work and study in this country to be able to do so, further increasing numbers. Trade deals by their very nature (the EU one excepted) involve a loss of sovereignty as goods, capital, services and more pertinently, labour cross barriers more easily.

Not much discussion on whether all this migration benefits the UK at all, certainly not in the article itself, but I guess that's the nature of this particular beast.

Balanced, fair and what I wish I had written. My deep loathing of the DM spilled over (just in case anybody hadn't noticed). JamesWales can still f*ck off though! At least until after lunch.

[Pearcey3]

Glover’s views are no more relevant than anybody else’s. He is just a right wing journo. We actually have labour shortages in this country. Still let’s blame immigrants because that’s what right wingers always do.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

A shed load of people who write or reference articles from the daily mail are racist .

People I know , but do not associate with and read that paper are very right wing and suck up the extreme propaganda.....dressed up as reasoned debate .....which is designed to frighten people

No whilst I have no doubt that the majority of people on here can have a sensible chat I am afraid in the real world there are absolutely LOADS of people who might not like being labelled racists but that's exactly what they are .

Did Ron Liddle write for the Daily Mail ?

He should have done

[Pearcey3]

A shed load of people who write or reference articles from the daily mail are racist .

People I know , but do not associate with and read that paper are very right wing and suck up the extreme propaganda.....dressed up as reasoned debate .....which is designed to frighten people

No whilst I have no doubt that the majority of people on here can have a sensible chat I am afraid in the real world there are absolutely LOADS of people who might not like being labelled racists but that's exactly what they are .

Did Ron Liddle write for the Daily Mail ?

He should have done

Liddle is The Sun I think. Not that I read the rag.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I thought the immigration was going to stop after Brexit when we regained control of the borders from the EU.

Yeah .....do you think some people have been stung ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Stephen Glover - super-qualified to write such crap.

Evening Standard , Spectator , Daily Mail , Telegraph

Oh come on , he's not got a right wing agenda ! 🙄

[NYCBlue]

If you post a link to the Daily Mail, you pretty much kill any desire for discourse. I didn't even click on the link.

[Citizen's Nephew]

If you post a link to the Daily Mail, you pretty much kill any desire for discourse. I didn't even click on the link.

Sensible post/advice. There's been a load of these types of threads lately. I was weak. You are an inspiration

[North Cardiff Blue]

If you post a link to the Daily Mail, you pretty much kill any desire for discourse. I didn't even click on the link.

Personally I'll glance at all articles on my feed microsoft edge, which will be all papers, sky sports, BBC, all sorts mostly open sport, theres good and bad in all, but I like to have an open mind.

I don't agree with everyones point of view but i'll often read them and form my own opinion, which isn't as black and white as most peoples these days.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Personally I'll glance at all articles on my feed microsoft edge, which will be all papers, sky sports, BBC, all sorts mostly open sport, theres good and bad in all, but I like to have an open mind.

I don't agree with everyones point of view but i'll often read them and form my own opinion, which isn't as black and white as most peoples these days.

I used to use these aggregate newsfeeds but there were just too many hideous pieces from writers and publications I had little respect for so I stopped. Apple News I switched off and if your using Microsoft Edge, I'm not kidding, it's like falling down the rabbit-hole.

I went for the jugular earlier and for that I apologise. In my defence I was left unsupervised without coffee.

[North Cardiff Blue]

I used to use these aggregate newsfeeds but there were just too many hideous pieces from writers and publications I had little respect for so I stopped. Apple News I switched off and if your using Microsoft Edge, I'm not kidding, it's like falling down the rabbit-hole.

I went for the jugular earlier and for that I apologise. In my defence I was left unsupervised without coffee.

No problem reply how you like

I use edge just for news feed, half hour in the morning really just to see whats happening in sport and whatever else comes up.

I'm not a socialist so i'll read from the guardian to the daily mail, I don't get upset if someone writes something that I disagree with, I understand that the country is divided and most people on here will have a paddy if you link something from a paper they don't like.

[JamesWales]

If you post a link to the Daily Mail, you pretty much kill any desire for discourse. I didn't even click on the link.

We get a lot of this, but I don't agree with that mindset. How do you make sure you get a good cross section of opinions if you don't read them? How do you know what the article is about if you don't click on the link? How do you make sure you aren't in an echo chamber and that your arguments are capable of changing? If nothing else, how do you know how to win arguments against those who disagree if you don't read what they are reading? Who was it who said "Know your enemy"?

[Divine Wright]

We get a lot of this, but I don't agree with that mindset. How do you make sure you get a good cross section of opinions if you don't read them? How do you know what the article is about if you don't click on the link? How do you make sure you aren't in an echo chamber and that your arguments are capable of changing? If nothing else, how do you know how to win arguments against those who disagree if you don't read what they are reading? Who was it who said "Know your enemy"?

You are wasting you time trying to glean anything from the Daily Mail and trying to win arguments against people who read it. I mean that.

Have you ever gained any insights or had any success in either of these objectives?

Anyhow, you don't need read the Daily Mail to understand the basic mindset of someone who is xenophobic. They are scared of things they perceive as being different....in the best case scenario. Worst case, they are bullies and enjoy the power.

[JamesWales]

You are wasting you time trying to glean anything from the Daily Mail and trying to win arguments against people who read it. I mean that.

Have you ever gained any insights or had any success in either of these objectives?

Anyhow, you don't need read the Daily Mail to understand the basic mindset of someone who is xenophobic. They are scared of things they perceive as being different....in the best case scenario. Worst case, they are bullies and enjoy the power.

I find the most narrow minded people to be those who either only read the Daily Mail, or those who insist upon never reading it. Most balanced people will read things from across the spectrum.

There are some topics, certain newspapers will just never report on, and that polite society wish would go away, so it's important that others do.

More generally, the opinion pieces I take with a pinch of salt, and there's a clear agenda, but I do find they will illustrate articles better and dig into things a bit more thoroughly than some other newspapers or websites tbh.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I find the most narrow minded people to be those who either only read the Daily Mail, or those who insist upon never reading it. Most balanced people will read things from across the spectrum.

There are some topics, certain newspapers will just never report on, and that polite society wish would go away, so it's important that others do.

More generally, the opinion pieces I take with a pinch of salt, and there's a clear agenda, but I do find they will illustrate articles better and dig into things a bit more thoroughly than some other newspapers or websites tbh.

I've said to you before that if you didn't display such sanctimony and smugness with this insistence that you are balanced I'd have (and I'm sure others would) have greater respect and enjoy debating with you. But jeez it drives me insane.

And I know you're full of sh*t when you say you'll listen to the Osmonds in equal measure. Nobody would do that

Lunch was vegan, fair-trade and delicious btw.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I find the most narrow minded people to be those who either only read the Daily Mail, or those who insist upon never reading it. Most balanced people will read things from across the spectrum.

Given that the Daily Mail is frequently the newspaper that is fined most often every year for deliberately publishing bullshit, I think I'll give it a miss. Funnily enough the other worst offenders are The Sun and The Express.

[blue matt]

I find the most narrow minded people to be those who either only read the Daily Mail, or those who insist upon never reading it. Most balanced people will read things from across the spectrum.

.

You know the CCMB rules, you must have realised one rather high on the list is that you cant list a DM article, The Left simple refuse to believe anything the DM say, yes of course it could be a hard fact, but its in the DM, thus inadmissible on CCMB , its just the way it is

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I thought the immigration was going to stop after Brexit when we regained control of the borders from the EU.

It was because the EU never controlled our borders.

We were never in Schengen so even EU citizens had to show passports to get in. As for allowing non-EU citizens into the country, that has always been handled by the UK. The only difference is that EU citizens don't have the right to work here, neither do we have the automatic right to work in Europe.

Taking back control of our borders was another Brexit lie that lots stupidly believed.

[Divine Wright]

It's people like the OP that makes me want to avoid the internet and ccmb altogether. It just turns the whole experience of browsing a football forum into a test of your faith in humanity and unfortunately they are getting the better of me. It's enough that you have to put up with the gobby football types let alone put up with this crap too.

Ignore it ? Maybe. But there really should be better control over this sort of content. Shift it to the politics forum or even make a new forum for anything related to the daily mail or similar far right content so people like this can get a belly full without clogging up the main forum with useless shite.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

We get a lot of this, but I don't agree with that mindset. How do you make sure you get a good cross section of opinions if you don't read them? How do you know what the article is about if you don't click on the link? How do you make sure you aren't in an echo chamber and that your arguments are capable of changing? If nothing else, how do you know how to win arguments against those who disagree if you don't read what they are reading? Who was it who said "Know your enemy"?

Rage Against The Machine

[JamesWales]

Rage Against The Machine

To ensure balance I make sure I listen to RATM and the Osmonds in equal measure.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I find the most narrow minded people to be those who either only read the Daily Mail, or those who insist upon never reading it. Most balanced people will read things from across the spectrum.

There are some topics, certain newspapers will just never report on, and that polite society wish would go away, so it's important that others do.

More generally, the opinion pieces I take with a pinch of salt, and there's a clear agenda, but I do find they will illustrate articles better and dig into things a bit more thoroughly than some other newspapers or websites tbh.

Surely you can see that The Guardian may not be everyone's cup of tea ....I find it a bore festival ....but its a fair left leaning but certainly not socialist paper

The Daily Mail ?

Come on ff sake , it's off the scale , alongside The Sun , with its right leaning stance


The UK press is strangled by the right wing

[RichardM]

It was because the EU never controlled our borders.

We were never in Schengen so even EU citizens had to show passports to get in. As for allowing non-EU citizens into the country, that has always been handled by the UK. The only difference is that EU citizens don't have the right to work here, neither do we have the automatic right to work in Europe.

Taking back control of our borders was another Brexit lie that lots stupidly believed.

Even though EU citizens had to show their passports they were allowed in under the free movement rules.
Yes, you are right that non-EU migration was always controlled by the UK, after all Priti Patel and her predecessors were for ever telling us they were going to reduce immigration, implying it was in their control. They just never did and then started peddling lies about the benefits Brexit

[cyril evans awaydays]

Even though EU citizens had to show their passports they were allowed in under the free movement rules.
Yes, you are right that non-EU migration was always controlled by the UK, after all Priti Patel and her predecessors were for ever telling us they were going to reduce immigration, implying it was in their control. They just never did and then started peddling lies about the benefits Brexit

Pre-Brexit the UK had a net immigration target of +100k per annum and the governments immediately post Brexit reaffirmed it. It was never realistic but very useful each year it was broken. Quietly discarded since but I guess it served its purpose.