Have The Tories Come A Long Way ( Are They More Diverse Than Other Parties )

[Wales-Bales]

First public hustings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj_qw2UQmlw

[delmbox]

Your assumption is wrong, in parliament White men make up the vast majority. There are plenty of professions where your dreaded "white male" is in the majority. I'm not sure that in the general population are in the small minority either not to the extent to justify your "sometimes" versus "a lot" idea.

" When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" lol
I'm sorry to bust your bubble but nowhere in nature do you get equality and trying to impose eQuAlITy will lead to oppressing people. What do you do about the naturally beautiful? Make them more ugly for equality? What about those with naturally more drive and a higher work ethic? Tax them heavily?
What about those who are naturally more intelligent? Lobotomy? See how mad equality can get...

You are clearly brain washed into despising your own kind by Marxist "Critical Theory" ...i see you as a victim. You've been tricked into thinking that deriding your own kind is somehow enlightened. The modern left is a suicide cult, so finally Delmbox, just for confirmation, You would want to choose your heart surgeon based on racial quotas and not the best man for the job?

I have two questions:

1) So to confirm, in your own words - white men in the UK are the vast majority in positions of power in Parliament, and in plenty of professions as well. Also there's so many white men in the UK that they're not a small minority even when put against non white men, women, and white women?

2) Since when is a heart surgeon a leadership role in Government?

[JamesWales]

I don't think what Delmobox is saying is unreasonable here. Political parties are there to get elected. They have to offer things to all people, and whilst I strongly object to the idea that we can only identify with someone who 'looks like us', this is unfortunately the case for many. As such, it is important that political parties do reflect the society they wish to serve. For me, that is done via the Tory way of trying to ignore colour and let it rise to the top, as opposed to the more directed way other parties do it, which demonstrably is less successful.

Successful parties are also diverse in every respect. They will contain strong leaders, compassionate politicians, technocrats, jovial people, intellectuals, hard workers, those from Cambridge and those who left school at 16. This was a point I was trying to make yesterday to TOBW that actually Johnson still does have an appeal, and parties do need people like him. It's no use every MP being the same.

I can't stand identity politics, I really do think it's toxic for societies, but recognising that governments need to reflect a society is not toxic, it's common sense.

I also think this is a very good phrase actually: "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" although I'm no marxist, there's some truth in it. The thing for me is to realise why society is complex and try to solve the issues properly as opposed to adopted a knee jerk "it must be down to racism" response, that i think is very rarely rooted in reality, and thus very unlikely to solve the issue.

I genuinely couldn't care less what race or religion someone is from as long as they are moderate and don't stand on a ticket that people should or shouldn't vote for them based on that characteristic.

[lardy]

I don't think what Delmobox is saying is unreasonable here. Political parties are there to get elected. They have to offer things to all people, and whilst I strongly object to the idea that we can only identify with someone who 'looks like us', this is unfortunately the case for many. As such, it is important that political parties do reflect the society they wish to serve. For me, that is done via the Tory way of trying to ignore colour and let it rise to the top, as opposed to the more directed way other parties do it, which demonstrably is less successful.

Successful parties are also diverse in every respect. They will contain strong leaders, compassionate politicians, technocrats, jovial people, intellectuals, hard workers, those from Cambridge and those who left school at 16. This was a point I was trying to make yesterday to TOBW that actually Johnson still does have an appeal, and parties do need people like him. It's no use every MP being the same.

I can't stand identity politics, I really do think it's toxic for societies, but recognising that governments need to reflect a society is not toxic, it's common sense.

I also think this is a very good phrase actually: "When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression" although I'm no marxist, there's some truth in it. The thing for me is to realise why society is complex and try to solve the issues properly as opposed to adopted a knee jerk "it must be down to racism" response, that i think is very rarely rooted in reality, and thus very unlikely to solve the issue.

I genuinely couldn't care less what race or religion someone is from as long as they are moderate and don't stand on a ticket that people should or shouldn't vote for them based on that characteristic.

I nodded along with most of your post until the last paragraph. You want moderate politicians? Yet you are probably the most vocal supporter here of Boris Johnson, who expelled 21 moderate conservative MPs shortly after taking power.

[Lither_1927]

I have two questions:

1) So to confirm, in your own words - white men in the UK are the vast majority in positions of power in Parliament, and in plenty of professions as well. Also there's so many white men in the UK that they're not a small minority even when put against non white men, women, and white women?

2) Since when is a heart surgeon a leadership role in Government?

Do you think that you can continue avoiding my questions and not look ridiculous?
1. "white men" are clearly not a minority YET. But for some bizarre reason you seem to want "white men" condemned and marginaled for eQuAlItY.

2) The discussion expanded more broadly. So, are you saying we should choose the best man for heart surgery but NOT nessacarily the best man for prime minister? Lolz

[JamesWales]

I nodded along with most of your post until the last paragraph. You want moderate politicians? Yet you are probably the most vocal supporter here of Boris Johnson, who expelled 21 moderate conservative MPs shortly after taking power.

Thats one very specific example there, and tbf, I have said on here numerous times I think Boris Johnson should resign - I don't see him as the devil incarnate, which I guess in certain parts of CCMB makes me a vocal supporter..nonetheless, for the sake f moving forward I will accept the charge as I did defend him a lot more than most.

I think what you refer to was back in 2019 and from recollection they wanted to prevent us leaving the EU. They will argue otherwise of course, and say it was about how we left, but fundamentally, I don't believe them, and I don't view anyone who tried to overturn the referendum result as remotely moderate - I view that as an extreme position to take.

The moderate position, the democratic position, was saying that the country has voted and that vote must be respected.

[Lither_1927]

lardy views anti democratic Europgiles as "moderate" lolz

[delmbox]

Do you think that you can continue avoiding my questions and not look ridiculous?
1. "white men" are clearly not a minority YET. But for some bizarre reason you seem to want "white men" condemned and marginaled for eQuAlItY.

2) The discussion expanded more broadly. So, are you saying we should choose the best man for heart surgery but NOT nessacarily the best man for prime minister? Lolz

1) Not once have I said that but it's good to see you admit that white men are doing just fine.

2) FYI women can be heart surgeons and Prime Ministers too, not hugely surprised that you forgot/couldn't bring yourself to write that)

I've never mentioned heart surgery, but yeah sure if I was having heart surgery I'd want the best person because that's a technical skill so it's easy to quantify who the best person at it is. The best heart surgeon for my transplant is also the best for my neighbour's transplant.

My point is that in terms of leadership the best person for one demographic might not be the best person for another demographic so leadership should be representative of more than one demographic. For some reason you've wet the bed and turned that into Delmbox hates white men despite the fact he is one but you do you

[Wales-Bales]

lardy views anti democratic Europgiles as "moderate" lolz

He's also living the life of Riley in a place where they import cheap labour from India to do all the dirty work, and maids from Indonesia to look after their kids and clean house. And when their contracts are up they get sent back home with no pathway to citizenship.

[Lither_1927]

1) Not once have I said that but it's good to see you admit that white men are doing just fine.

2) FYI women can be heart surgeons and Prime Ministers too, not hugely surprised that you forgot/couldn't bring yourself to write that)

I've never mentioned heart surgery, but yeah sure if I was having heart surgery I'd want the best person because that's a technical skill so it's easy to quantify who the best person at it is. The best heart surgeon for my transplant is also the best for my neighbour's transplant.

My point is that in terms of leadership the best person for one demographic might not be the best person for another demographic so leadership should be representative of more than one demographic. For some reason you've wet the bed and turned that into Delmbox hates white men despite the fact he is one but you do you

I didn't say white men are doing fine, stop making things up.
"White men" are continually under attack due to critical theory. White working class boys are performing badly yet all people like you discuss is "white men" claiming they have undue "privilege" this stems from critical race theory, the roots of which stem from the Frankfurt school. A group of communists plotting to undermine Europeans and impose communism with the long term goal of slowly infiltrating our institutions. You are an unwitting victim of this.

I haven't forgotten Women, i mentioned them earlier in this thread. I'm responding to you specifically targeting "white men", suggesting they are less suitable for political leadership because they are white men... which is self flagelating nonesense, given that you are a white man. If white men make the best heart surgeons, so be it. Glad we agree on that. Not sure many of your gaurdian readers would agree with you mind.

If one race(demographic) can better represent their own race(demographic) Are you saying that a non white candidate can't be prime minister until the majority of the population are non white? After all the majority of citizens are still white... The majority need the best representation and using your logic that should be a person of the same demographic "race"...so in delmbox's world we have a black prime minister for blacks and a white prime minister for whites. An Asian primeminister for Asians etc
You'll be calling for apartheid next.

[delmbox]

I didn't say white men are doing fine, stop making things up.
"White men" are continually under attack due to critical theory. White working class boys are performing badly yet all people like you discuss is "white men" claiming they have undue "privilege" this stems from critical race theory, the roots of which stem from the Frankfurt school. A group of communists plotting to undermine Europeans and impose communism with the long term goal of slowly infiltrating our institutions. You are an unwitting victim of this.

I haven't forgotten Women, i mentioned them earlier in this thread. I'm responding to you specifically targeting "white men", suggesting they are less suitable for political leadership because they are white men... which is self flagelating nonesense, given that you are a white man. If white men make the best heart surgeons, so be it. Glad we agree on that. Not sure many of your gaurdian readers would agree with you mind.

If one race(demographic) can better represent their own race(demographic) Are you saying that a non white candidate can't be prime minister until the majority of the population are non white? After all the majority of citizens are still white... The majority need the best representation and using your logic that should be a person of the same demographic "race"...so in delmbox's world we have a black prime minister for blacks and a white prime minister for whites. An Asian primeminister for Asians etc
You'll be calling for apartheid next.

Oh my God you're ****ing insane, I'm done with answering each question only for you to escalate it into OH SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS when I'm clearly not saying anything of the sort. I've literally said that the leaderSHIP should be representative, not that there should be a different Prime Minister for each demographic. Do I think that Government should be representative of its people? Yes. Do I think that a bunch of rich white guys is the best leadership group for the UK? No. Do I hate white men and think they should't be allowed to do anything? No.

It's as simple as that but I'm done talking to you, I used to think you were racist but this thread has shown you're an absolute moron as well. Life's too short, you're on ignore

[JamesWales]

1) Not once have I said that but it's good to see you admit that white men are doing just fine.

2) FYI women can be heart surgeons and Prime Ministers too, not hugely surprised that you forgot/couldn't bring yourself to write that)

I've never mentioned heart surgery, but yeah sure if I was having heart surgery I'd want the best person because that's a technical skill so it's easy to quantify who the best person at it is. The best heart surgeon for my transplant is also the best for my neighbour's transplant.

My point is that in terms of leadership the best person for one demographic might not be the best person for another demographic so leadership should be representative of more than one demographic. For some reason you've wet the bed and turned that into Delmbox hates white men despite the fact he is one but you do you

In my experience, women are heartbreakers and nothing you say will change that.

[cyril evans awaydays]

In my experience, women are heartbreakers and nothing you say will change that.

Perhaps for some unexplained reason they didn't share your view that you were having a balanced relationship. Just a thought!

[JamesWales]

Perhaps for some unexplained reason they didn't share your view that you were having a balanced relationship. Just a thought!

I'm only messing cyril. I'm the heartbreaker. I was just trying to shoehorn in a dreadful joke.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I'm only messing cyril. I'm the heartbreaker. I was just trying to shoehorn in a dreadful joke.

[JamesWales]

pm me hun

[cyril evans awaydays]

pm me hun

Bare my soul to a self-confessed heartbreaker and shit comedian, are you mad?

[JamesWales]

Bare my soul to a self-confessed heartbreaker and shit comedian, are you mad?

Dont say I didnt offer

[Lither_1927]

Oh my God you're ****ing insane, I'm done with answering each question only for you to escalate it into OH SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS when I'm clearly not saying anything of the sort. I've literally said that the leaderSHIP should be representative, not that there should be a different Prime Minister for each demographic. Do I think that Government should be representative of its people? Yes. Do I think that a bunch of rich white guys is the best leadership group for the UK? No. Do I hate white men and think they should't be allowed to do anything? No.

It's as simple as that but I'm done talking to you, I used to think you were racist but this thread has shown you're an absolute moron as well. Life's too short, you're on ignore

You haven't blocked me but you have backed yourself into a corner, from which you can't respond.

I'm sorry that i'm taking your political philosophy to it's logical conclusion and asking questions that induce a meltdown. You wrote: "My point is that in terms of leadership the best person for one demographic might not be the best person for another demographic so leadership should be representative of more than one demographic" How the **** can you implement identity politics in a leadership race and have one leader representing every demographic?

[Doucas]

Oh my God you're ****ing insane, I'm done with answering each question only for you to escalate it into OH SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS when I'm clearly not saying anything of the sort. I've literally said that the leaderSHIP should be representative, not that there should be a different Prime Minister for each demographic. Do I think that Government should be representative of its people? Yes. Do I think that a bunch of rich white guys is the best leadership group for the UK? No. Do I hate white men and think they should't be allowed to do anything? No.

It's as simple as that but I'm done talking to you, I used to think you were racist but this thread has shown you're an absolute moron as well. Life's too short, you're on ignore

Well said.

[Dorcus]

Well said.

I think everyone should put Adolf on ignore, I've done it and suddenly everything smells fresher.

[Wales-Bales]

I think everyone should put Adolf on ignore, I've done it and suddenly everything smells fresher.

That's the sort of thing Hitler would do!

[Lither_1927]

That's the sort of thing Hitler would do!

Except he didn't actually put me on ignore. He's spoken to me since. Typical Marxist, wants everyone to do something that they won't do themselves. Like paying more tax.

[jon1959]

Except he didn't actually put me on ignore. He's spoken to me since. Typical Marxist, wants everyone to do something that they won't do themselves. Like paying more tax.

Do you have any idea what Marxism is? You seem to have tripped over the confused idea of ‘cultural Marxism’ (which has something to do with culture and nothing to do with Marxism) and are now parroting the latest infantile M word abuse line that comes from culture war conservatives and frightened neo Nazis swept up by Trumpism. It is not a good look!

[JamesWales]

It would be useful on both CCMB and every other facet of political debate on planet earth if people could cease labelling anything centre-right as 'far-right' and anything centre-left as 'marxist'