West Ham

[Eric the Half a Bee]

That's another deluded pal for you then

Our crowds when we got to the championship were a huge let down

Dave Jones talked about it the press and its one of the few things he was right about

By the time Jones left we'd added 10k to our attendance. It was always going to take time to build up crowds after nearly 2 decades of shit. The new stadium helped with that, as did (in the end) regular promotion pushes.

Did you expect to see Ninian Park full because we were promoted to the second tier? Nothing in our history suggested that would happen.

In our first 5 seasons in the Championship we had a relegation battle, Black Friday, sales of cult heroes in Gabbidon, Kavanagh, Earnshaw, and mostly crap football. We had a fantastic 3 months to open the 2006/07 season before the worst end to a season in our history. We lost 2k in our average attendance the following season and that would have been more had we not had the run to the FA cup final. Once we started competing around the top of the table, crowds improved.

Historically, our crowds have never improved by much after promotion from the third tier. Since the 70s, we've been relegated three times to the third tier. On 2 of those occasions our crowds went up. That's why I wouldn't expect a mass exodus if we ever did go down.

The big crowd puller is the Premier League and promotion attempts. And do you know what? We're no different from any other club who have had relatively little time in the top division. You keep avoiding the fact that those teams with the most loyal crowds are invariably those with the longest histories in the top flight.

You might call them Johnny Come Latelys but we need them. A decade in the top flight and they bring more friends and family. We convert them to the religion of Cardiff City. We grow a fan base. We won't playing in the bottom half of the Championship. That's a fact. Hardly any clubs would

[Citizen's Nephew]

.

The big crowd puller is the Premier League and promotion attempts. And do you know what? We're no different from any other club who have had relatively little time in the top division. You keep avoiding the fact that those teams with the most loyal crowds are invariably those with the longest histories in the top flight.

I think this is a really good point and think has a huge bearing on PL relegation. But Eric, if we play football like we did last season then do you really think that if we got relegated to L1 that we wouldn't shed around 30%? Maybe not the ST holders in the first relegation season but if we didn't go up, and the football didn't improve, then I really couldn't imagine much more than around 10K on a good day and ST sales to gradually decline.

It's all hypothetical anyway and you're a stats person so there must be a marketing algorithm somewhere that predicts this stuff (I'm not suggesting you have one but I rather hope that there is one somewhere). I'm plucking figures out of thin air here.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I think this is a really good point and think has a huge bearing on PL relegation. But Eric, if we play football like we did last season then do you really think that if we got relegated to L1 that we wouldn't shed around 30%? Maybe not the ST holders in the first relegation season but if we didn't go up, and the football didn't improve, then I really couldn't imagine much more than around 10K on a good day and ST sales to gradually decline.

It's impossible to predict and we can only have our opinions on it.

Our fanbase has changed somewhat over the last 20 years. We've lost fans due to the red shirt fiasco, fans will come and go for various reasons, but we've had a stable number of around 16k since the days of Russell Slade, which could be better, but is a figure we've improved on with promotion and I think we'll do better than that again this season. I assume the figure of around 13k season tickets is about right. I don't think that would be affected all that much.

I'm looking at attendance figures of teams that have been Championship regulars when they've gone down to League 1. If there's been a drop in attendance, it's been the season a club has been relegated, more often than a drop the season afterwards in League 1. Several sides have seen crowds improve after relegation. Not too many clubs see a drop in crowds, any drops seem to be no more than around 2k.

Last season we managed an average attendance of just shy of 19k in a season where we were utter shit and struggled at the bottom. This season we look set to have similar crowds. I know there's a gut instinct that crowds would drop if we did get relegated, but that doesn't match the statistics.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

It's impossible to predict and we can only have our opinions on it.

Our fanbase has changed somewhat over the last 20 years. We've lost fans due to the red shirt fiasco, fans will come and go for various reasons, but we've had a stable number of around 16k since the days of Russell Slade, which could be better, but is a figure we've improved on with promotion and I think we'll do better than that again this season. I assume the figure of around 13k season tickets is about right. I don't think that would be affected all that much.

I'm looking at attendance figures of teams that have been Championship regulars when they've gone down to League 1. If there's been a drop in attendance, it's been the season a club has been relegated, more often than a drop the season afterwards in League 1. Several sides have seen crowds improve after relegation. Not too many clubs see a drop in crowds, any drops seem to be no more than around 2k.

Last season we managed an average attendance of just shy of 19k in a season where we were utter shit and struggled at the bottom. This season we look set to have similar crowds. I know there's a gut instinct that crowds would drop if we did get relegated, but that doesn't match the statistics.

Away with the pixies you are

If we are getting a hardcore of 16 k then obviously our gates will drop quite considerably if we get relegated

It's hard enough getting em through the door now

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Away with the pixies you are

If we are getting a hardcore of 16 k then obviously our gates will drop quite considerably if we get relegated

It's hard enough getting em through the door now

Over to you, then.

How many clubs see their crowds drop after relegation to League 1? Why would we be any different.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I know there's a gut instinct that crowds would drop if we did get relegated, but that doesn't match the statistics.

Then I'll go with statistics Eric

[TWGL1]

It's impossible to predict and we can only have our opinions on it.

Our fanbase has changed somewhat over the last 20 years. We've lost fans due to the red shirt fiasco, fans will come and go for various reasons, but we've had a stable number of around 16k since the days of Russell Slade, which could be better, but is a figure we've improved on with promotion and I think we'll do better than that again this season. I assume the figure of around 13k season tickets is about right. I don't think that would be affected all that much.

I'm looking at attendance figures of teams that have been Championship regulars when they've gone down to League 1. If there's been a drop in attendance, it's been the season a club has been relegated, more often than a drop the season afterwards in League 1. Several sides have seen crowds improve after relegation. Not too many clubs see a drop in crowds, any drops seem to be no more than around 2k.

Last season we managed an average attendance of just shy of 19k in a season where we were utter shit and struggled at the bottom. This season we look set to have similar crowds. I know there's a gut instinct that crowds would drop if we did get relegated, but that doesn't match the statistics.

I think we averaged over 19,000 last year , however some websites divided our total attendances by 23 games when in-fact we played 2 matches with no fans ( thanks to Drakeford) which is why it appears our average is lower

[Eric the Half a Bee]

You're right. I will have a moan at the other clubs too. However, am I right in saying that if you bought a season ticket last season and went to 5 aways but had never been to a City game prior to that, then someone like myself who's committed up front to the club for over a decade is treated like sh*t? See where I'm coming from?

Edit: if someone had committed to say Arsenal for that length of time, they would be eligible to buy a decent ST at the Emirates but I couldn't go to Reading.

I do get that our allocation is a factor. It also p*ssed me off at just how empty the whatever-they-call-Reading-ground these days was.

I understand from Pearcey that Reading made the decision to cut away numbers to make their ground more intimidating.

[Citizen's Nephew]

I understand from Pearcey that Reading made the decision to cut away numbers to make their ground more intimidating.

I read that but was Pearcey joking? Looking at just how poor their support was I just don't know (I'm not suggesting Pearcey you're making this up!). I follow the Greek Superleague and thought I was watching one of their matches outside of the top 3 or 4 clubs it was so empty.

[Canton Kev]

I read that but was Pearcey joking? Looking at just how poor their support was I just don't know (I'm not suggesting Pearcey you're making this up!). I follow the Greek Superleague and thought I was watching one of their matches outside of the top 3 or 4 clubs it was so empty.

No it’s correct. Reading used to have a block next to the away end reserved for overflow if clubs sold out. That took the away end capacity to about 3500/4000.
Reading then put their singing section in that overflow block meaning they’re now limited to only 2000 away fans.

[TWGL1]

No it’s correct. Reading used to have a block next to the away end reserved for overflow if clubs sold out. That took the away end capacity to about 3500/4000.
Reading then put their singing section in that overflow block meaning they’re now limited to only 2000 away fans.

I think we have discussed this before , but it must cost reading around £600k per season in lost away ticket revenue

[Citizen's Nephew]

I think we have discussed this before , but it must cost reading around £600k per season in lost away ticket revenue

They could hire a choir and full orchestra for less than that and get more atmosphere!

[Citizen's Nephew]

No it’s correct. Reading used to have a block next to the away end reserved for overflow if clubs sold out. That took the away end capacity to about 3500/4000.
Reading then put their singing section in that overflow block meaning they’re now limited to only 2000 away fans.

Bloody hell. As TWGL1 says, that's costing them over the course of a season. When Reading scored the winner, there's wasn't much noise. Cardiff fans could be heard though!

Edit: I didn't mean they were cheering the winner!

[Canton Kev]

I’m led to believe West Ham have more “useable” seats than Tottenham and have installed measures like this (next to the away fans ) to decrease segregation 07115E08-71D8-4586-8B77-918C1F1A8966.jpg

What the **** is that. The London Stadium already has a poor atmosphere, that’s hardly going to help.

[Citizen's Nephew]

What the **** is that. The London Stadium already has a poor atmosphere, that’s hardly going to help.

yeah, that's pretty bad!

[TWGL1]

What the **** is that. The London Stadium already has a poor atmosphere, that’s hardly going to help.

Bit like our green blanket at Ninian Park
Terrible

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Some of them wont, but that's the same for all clubs, it just happens at a different rate due to the success or lack of at a football club. The majority of people don't want to be associated with a shit product-Shock, Horror!

You said that our hardcore was around 16000, 25 years ago it was probably around the 4000 mark. Due to us playing at a higher level and some relative success, our hardcore is now 16000. Do you see where this is going? That's a 400% increase in support by my reckoning.

Yes I see where this is going

Absolutely nowhere near 40000 fans turning up to watch Cardiff City every other Saturday.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Yes I see where this is going

Absolutely nowhere near 40000 fans turning up to watch Cardiff City every other Saturday.

So if we averaged 31.5k in a PL relegation season, you don't think we could ever improve on that if we held our own and spent several seasons in the top flight and had the capacity to reach 40k? Is it the mushrooms this time or something herbal?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

So if we averaged 31.5k in a PL relegation season, you don't think we could ever improve on that if we held our own and spent several seasons in the top flight and had the capacity to reach 40k? Is it the mushrooms this time or something herbal?

This region has a history of not supporting its sports teams very well

South Wales is a big events place , we can pull big crowds but not on a consistent basis

I know it's hard to accept but it's true . I would love to see us packed out with a waiting list for season tickets but it's not going to happen .

[Eric the Half a Bee]

This region has a history of not supporting its sports teams very well

South Wales is a big events place , we can pull big crowds but not on a consistent basis

I know it's hard to accept but it's true . I would love to see us packed out with a waiting list for season tickets but it's not going to happen .

Hang on, we were close to capacity for every home game in a relegation season in the PL. That's pretty consistent.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Over to you, then.

How many clubs see their crowds drop after relegation to League 1? Why would we be any different.

I can't be arsed

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I can't be arsed

Precisely. You know I've won this one.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Hang on, we were close to capacity for every home game in a relegation season in the PL. That's pretty consistent.

Yes for one season

It wouldn't take fans long to complain about boring football to have an excuse

When I was supporting CCFC in the dungeon we were under the illusion that success would bring the crowds

It hasn't really has it ?

I mean considering the size of our support area ?

It's been very disappointing

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Yes for one season

It wouldn't take fans long to complain about boring football to have an excuse

When I was supporting CCFC in the dungeon we were under the illusion that success would bring the crowds

It hasn't really has it ?

I mean considering the size of our support area ?

It's been very disappointing

There's absolutely no evidence to suggest that your opinion would happen. You're going by pure gut instinct because you have a downer on our fan base as a whole.

Define success.

[Canton Kev]

Yes for one season

It wouldn't take fans long to complain about boring football to have an excuse

When I was supporting CCFC in the dungeon we were under the illusion that success would bring the crowds

It hasn't really has it ?

I mean considering the size of our support area ?

It's been very disappointing

How many clubs in the Premier League have seen their crowds decrease after several seasons staying there?