Why is the story about our new leader about his skin colour?

[Citizen's Nephew]

[QUOTE=blue sky;5497938][QUOTE=Citizen's Nephew;5497924]

Poor people, in Wales anyway, are more likely to vote for Labour than any other party.

Labour will have been in power in Wales for 27 years by the next election. In Wales Labour have won the popular vote and most seats in every Westminster election since 1923! Ask the people of Port Talbot what they think of Vaughan Gething and Stephen Kinnock. They will tell you that these men are failures and charlatans.

I wonder if either you or Citizens Nephew actually read the Mosalski piece in WalesOnline? The narrative is not complicated. VG took huge sums of money from a criminal constituent and has lobbied for this man, a repeat polluter. It stinks![/What do you want me to say? That the guy’s a c*nt? I’ve already given you a real world, true example of how the guy helped me .
Everybody lies. Every day. This isn’t about lies.

It’s about the new FM accepting £200k from a constituent who has multiple convictions for dumping waste and then lobbying for that constituent’s business.

So VG accepted money that almost certainly was obtained through illegal activity then lobbied the WG to allow the donor to make more money.

You have been fulsome in your praise of VG for helping you and other Grangetown constituents. What did he do for these other people and how did you find out about these good works?

Or have you been lying?

Seems like a lot of Labour politicians in Wales are very concerned https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-68596471

I’ve tried to be decent and engage and discuss and debate. I’ve lost patience with you now and have better things to do. I won’t be engaging with you again. Ever. Go away.

[blue sky]

[QUOTE=Citizen's Nephew;5497939][QUOTE=blue sky;5497938]

I’ve tried to be decent and engage and discuss and debate. I’ve lost patience with you now and have better things to do. I won’t be engaging with you again. Ever. Go away.

Oh my God NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! What am i going to do now that some person that I don’t know who I’ve been exchanging messages with for one day is abandoning me???

I’m going to contact my constituency MS Vaughan Gething to see if he can help. I’m not sure whether or not ‘rebuilding short-term fraught internet relationships’ is a devolved competency but if it is I’m hopeful that VG can help because, as you’ve already mentioned, he’s great at helping constituents.

Especially those who give him £££££££££££.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

[QUOTE=blue sky;5497954][QUOTE=Citizen's Nephew;5497939]

Oh my God NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! What am i going to do now that some person that I don’t know who I’ve been exchanging messages with for one day is abandoning me???

I’m going to contact my constituency MS Vaughan Gething to see if he can help. I’m not sure whether or not ‘rebuilding short-term fraught internet relationships’ is a devolved competency but if it is I’m hopeful that VG can help because, as you’ve already mentioned, he’s great at helping constituents.

Especially those who give him £££££££££££.

How are labour deliberately keeping people poor so they stay in power ?

That's what you are saying isn't it ?

I am not denying there's a load of sleaze going on but that's a different matter

[Dave Blue]

I meant Black

Those you mention are of Indian sub continent origin

I have already mentioned the 200k issue could be his nemesis

No one is going to remember that in a month. Though WG did exceptionally well in Covid and so did the rest of the country with a thumping win.

[Elwood Blues]

No one is going to remember that in a month. Though WG did exceptionally well in Covid and so did the rest of the country with a thumping win.

Exceptionally well in Covid?

Have you been listening to the enquiry???

I can't understand the final part of your sentence after the word. COVID?

[Dave Blue]

Exceptionally well in Covid?

Have you been listening to the enquiry???

I can't understand the final part of your sentence after the word. COVID?

Wales gave Drakeford and friends a resounding win in the last election on the back of the handling of Covid. It bucked the trend of Labour going through a rough time in England.

[Elwood Blues]

Wales gave Drakeford and friends a resounding win in the last election on the back of the handling of Covid. It bucked the trend of Labour going through a rough time in England.

But the enquiry had not started then.

Have you seen any of it??

Hasn't it changed your mind at all?

[JamesWales]

We are not. People of colour regard it as pretty important considering centuries of white privilege and oppression. You're a white dude, right? There is no we. I'm a white dude. My wife's mother was South African, Cape Coloured/Malay. We're bystanders in this. You're being kind of naive or deliberately contrary if you don't get it. There's nothing regressive.

There is a we, a collective social we, and in recent years there has been a push for people to define themselves by their race or skin colour, attributes they dont control and don't matter.

Seems you are one of those people. I suspect it wont end well.

The story is we have a new leader in Wales. Not his skin colour. That's part of his story of course it is, but its not THE story, yet sadly to many people it is.

[Citizen's Nephew]

There is a we, a collective social we, and in recent years there has been a push for people to define themselves by their race or skin colour, attributes they dont control and don't matter.

Seems you are one of those people. I suspect it wont end well.

The story is we have a new leader in Wales. Not his skin colour. That's part of his story of course it is, but its not THE story, yet sadly to many people it is.

If my wife submitted a story to any media editor in the world and failed to mention that VG is black and the first Welsh leader to be of colour then she'd never work again.

You've positioned the argument differently now though James. You started the thread talking about how regressive it is and now you're positioning it as some utopian (but unrealistic) humanitarian position that race shouldn't matter. Should it? Of course, it shouldn't. Does it? Hell yeah.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....-wales/latest/

S4C recently mixed up two Welsh rappers in a piece they did. That says everything you need to know about just how 'white' Wales is. One of the rappers rapped in Welsh btw. That's the kind of thing that flies in the face of your arguments.

You know it matters. You know what you're doing. We all do. And the irony that talking about tribalism (think of the origins of that term) on a football messageboard is hilarious. You gotta see that, surely?

You and I are in the 81% of the UK population who are white/white British according to the latest figures.

It's a HUGE story.

The other slant in your reply is a bit sinister though and sounds very Enoch Powell and I quote:

Seems you are one of those people. I suspect it wont end well.

It sounds quite threatening actually.

[Citizen's Nephew]

If my wife submitted a story to any media editor in the world and failed to mention that VG is black and the first Welsh leader to be of colour then she'd never work again.

You've positioned the argument differently now though James. You started the thread talking about how regressive it is and now you're positioning it as some utopian (but unrealistic) humanitarian position that race shouldn't matter. Should it? Of course, it shouldn't. Does it? Hell yeah.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....-wales/latest/

S4C recently mixed up two Welsh rappers in a piece they did. That says everything you need to know about just how 'white' Wales is. One of the rappers rapped in Welsh btw. That's the kind of thing that flies in the face of your arguments.

You know it matters. You know what you're doing. We all do. And the irony that talking about tribalism (think of the origins of that term) on a football messageboard is hilarious. You gotta see that, surely?

You and I are in the 81% of the UK population who are white/white British according to the latest figures.

It's a HUGE story.

The other slant in your reply is a bit sinister though and sounds very Enoch Powell and I quote:



It sounds quite threatening actually.

Correction to my post. I should have typed: S4C recently mixed up two, black, Welsh rappers in a piece they did.

Apologies.

[JamesWales]

We aren't saying it. Jim Bob just wants to believe that or spin it in a way that causes division. The only people causing that division are the ones who constantly tell us that it doesn't matter. Well, it does matter, for obvious reasons that don't need explaining if someone possesses half a brain cell. Things like this make Jimo and the rest of them angry, but they present themselves as being non-plussed by a black man doing something that not many Black people achieve or get the opportunity to achieve in this country. Their blase attitude to it (And everyone else should feel the same) attitude is a smpke screen for their own prejudices, it's a cover up, it's insulting, it's another attempt by White people to take control of other cultures or how people feel and completely dismissive of everything that has gone on before. Basically, it's right wing bullshit.

Talk about not getting it.

Of course few people get to achieve that position! It's head of the frigging country! No one gets to that position easily. But it is who got the position thats important.

And as if to prove how divisive people like you can be, there you go making a series of negative stereotypes about people based on race. Your position seriously needs challenging more as you won't take us to a good place, your position is taking us back decades in race relations, retreating people into tribes instead of one society which we should aim for

[jon1959]

There is a we, a collective social we, and in recent years there has been a push for people to define themselves by their race or skin colour, attributes they dont control and don't matter.

Seems you are one of those people. I suspect it wont end well.

The story is we have a new leader in Wales. Not his skin colour. That's part of his story of course it is, but its not THE story, yet sadly to many people it is.

Talk about not getting it.

Of course few people get to achieve that position! It's head of the frigging country! No one gets to that position easily. But it is who got the position thats important.

And as if to prove how divisive people like you can be, there you go making a series of negative stereotypes about people based on race. Your position seriously needs challenging more as you won't take us to a good place, your position is taking us back decades in race relations, retreating people into tribes instead of one society which we should aim for

If anyone 'doesn't get it', or doesn't want to get it, it is you James. You will be bleating 'white lives matter' next!

If racism didn't exist there may be more value to your comments - but racism does still exist in our society. The 'negative stereotypes' are out there causing damage. When it comes to health outcomes, employment and earnings, treatment by the criminal justice system, direct prejudice and exposure to abuse and attack, racism is still alive and kicking in the UK. It is not the same as one two or three generations ago but it is still there.

While ever that is the case the achievements of people from communities without structural privilege need to be celebrated (however flawed they are as individuals) - to break the glass ceiling and stereotypes and to inspire the next generation. It isn't enough. Margaret Thatcher didn't transform the prospects of women (in some ways she made it worse), Rishi Sunak hasn't swept away racism in society (in some ways for some communities he is making it worse) but the symbolism of their roles and status makes us all think a little differently about the world. They help bring about a new normal.

[Tuerto]

Talk about not getting it.

Of course few people get to achieve that position! It's head of the frigging country! No one gets to that position easily. But it is who got the position thats important.

And as if to prove how divisive people like you can be, there you go making a series of negative stereotypes about people based on race. Your position seriously needs challenging more as you won't take us to a good place, your position is taking us back decades in race relations, retreating people into tribes instead of one society which we should aim for

Talk about ignoring everything that has gone on before. Where's your starting point Jim? You do know why things like black people getting into positions of power are talked about, Don't you? You do know why Governments, local authorities etc have had to or been forced to implement policies like positive discrimination etc, which probably pisses you off, but probably pisses of people of colour, women, Disabled people even more so. Because they've probably never wanted 'Special Treatment ' they just wanted a level playing field to start, with, fairness Jim. That wasn't and still isn't the case in our society, so it is important to recognise groups of people who have had to work much harder to achieve certain things in life.

And another thing, can't you see that the attitude by some people who shout loudest about recognising people of colour achieving in places where they historically haven't is another way of taking control of things, it's a more subtle kind of racism dressed up passively.

[lardy]

Talk about ignoring everything that has gone on before. Where's your starting point Jim? You do know why things like black people getting into positions of power are talked about, Don't you? You do know why Governments, local authorities etc have had to or been forced to implement policies like positive discrimination etc, which probably pisses you off, but probably pisses of people of colour, women, Disabled people even more so. Because they've probably never wanted 'Special Treatment ' they just wanted a level playing field to start, with, fairness Jim. That wasn't and still isn't the case in our society, so it is important to recognise groups of people who have had to work much harder to achieve certain things in life.

And another thing, can't you see that the attitude by some people who shout loudest about recognising people of colour achieving in places where they historically haven't is another way of taking control of things, it's a more subtle kind of racism dressed up passively.

Good post.

With positive discrimination, I often see the argument 'it should be the best person for the job'. But who is the best person for the job? How can your average recruitment person tell? The interview and selection process is good at finding suitable people, but identifying the best is beyond the ability of most of us, as we can't see into the future. So if you have 4 people who probably all can do the job just as well as each other, then the panel will have to find some other way of selecting between them, and on a sub-conscious level humans are drawn towards people similar to themselves.

So a panel of white people may be drawn towards the white candidate, just as a panel of Chinese or Indian people may be towards the Chinese or Indian candidate. No one is being racist, we're wired that way.

In 10 years, that candidate may be on the panel, and it all continues. Positive discrimination tries to break that cycle, and like everything else, it's not perfect every time.

[Tuerto]

Good post.

With positive discrimination, I often see the argument 'it should be the best person for the job'. But who is the best person for the job? How can your average recruitment person tell? The interview and selection process is good at finding suitable people, but identifying the best is beyond the ability of most of us, as we can't see into the future. So if you have 4 people who probably all can do the job just as well as each other, then the panel will have to find some other way of selecting between them, and on a sub-conscious level humans are drawn towards people similar to themselves.

So a panel of white people may be drawn towards the white candidate, just as a panel of Chinese or Indian people may be towards the Chinese or Indian candidate. No one is being racist, we're wired that way.

In 10 years, that candidate may be on the panel, and it all continues. Positive discrimination tries to break that cycle, and like everything else, it's not perfect every time.

Agreed, and PD is a reaction too nepotism, favouritism, racism, Sexism etc. It's not really ideal, But for the reasons mentioned it's had to have been implemented.

[the other bob wilson]

Good post.

With positive discrimination, I often see the argument 'it should be the best person for the job'. But who is the best person for the job? How can your average recruitment person tell? The interview and selection process is good at finding suitable people, but identifying the best is beyond the ability of most of us, as we can't see into the future. So if you have 4 people who probably all can do the job just as well as each other, then the panel will have to find some other way of selecting between them, and on a sub-conscious level humans are drawn towards people similar to themselves.

So a panel of white people may be drawn towards the white candidate, just as a panel of Chinese or Indian people may be towards the Chinese or Indian candidate. No one is being racist, we're wired that way.

In 10 years, that candidate may be on the panel, and it all continues. Positive discrimination tries to break that cycle, and like everything else, it's not perfect every time.

Positive discrimination for gammons I say!

[the other bob wilson]

Talk about not getting it.

Of course few people get to achieve that position! It's head of the frigging country! No one gets to that position easily. But it is who got the position thats important.

And as if to prove how divisive people like you can be, there you go making a series of negative stereotypes about people based on race. Your position seriously needs challenging more as you won't take us to a good place, your position is taking us back decades in race relations, retreating people into tribes instead of one society which we should aim for

Interesting the way you’re in the habit of accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being “divisive” - I was surprised to see you using the word to describe me last week and thought it was an odd word to use. I disagree with you on an awful lot of things politically, but that doesn’t automatically make me divisive - there are quite a few words that spring to my mind to describe you when you’re disagreeing with me, but divisive is not one of them, your use of it comes over as a tad egotistical.

[Elwood Blues]

It's sad isn't it to see it described as regressive? It's for from it.

It's genuinely incredible to see Vaughn Gething making history as the first black leader of Wales, isn't it? It's like a fresh breath of air in Welsh politics, showing everyone that diversity and progress aren't just words—we're living them! And let's not forget, Gething isn't just any leader; he's one who's walked the challenging but rewarding path of a solicitor before stepping into this role. That's no small feat! It means he's grounded in real-world issues, understanding the intricate balance of law and life, which, let's be honest, is exactly what you want in someone steering the ship.

I had serious and important issues I was living and facing in Grangetown. They weren't just minor hiccups; they were major challenges that needed a thoughtful, effective response. And that's precisely what I got from Vaughn Gething and his team. It wasn't just about sending emails or making phone calls; it was about genuinely understanding the problem and actively seeking solutions. The kind of support I received was nothing short of outstanding, highlighting his commitment to really being there for the community.

This personal touch, this genuine willingness to help sort out significant issues, makes his leadership all the more admirable. It's one thing to lead from an office; it's another to be so connected and responsive to the community's needs. It shows he's not just about policies and politics; he's about people.

Isn't it inspiring to have someone like that at the helm? For young people in Wales, especially those of color, seeing Gething in such a prominent position must feel incredibly empowering. It sends a clear message: no matter your background, your dreams are valid, and your potential is limitless.

White posters carping about colour is not a good look. Describing it as regressive has overtones of discrimination. He won't like me saying it. I don't care.

Blimey, you make it sound as though Welsh Labour have just elected a new Messiah as our First Minister!

[Citizen's Nephew]

Blimey, you make it sound as though Welsh Labour have just elected a new Messiah as our First Minister!

Do I Elwood? Or is that just in your head? Because you don't like what I've written? What I wrote is honest and true. Another poster asked me if I was lying. These kinds of responses to what should be a positive post and real sources are sad.

And yeah, yeah, we all know about the £200K. That's not good. Acknowledged. There ya go.

However, that's not what James started this thread about, is it? It was about race.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Blimey, you make it sound as though Welsh Labour have just elected a new Messiah as our First Minister!

Welsh Labour could have Jesus as the FM and he's still be crucified.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Welsh Labour could have Jesus as the FM and he's still be crucified.

No, I think he would probably do a better job..

[Citizen's Nephew]

No, I think he would probably do a better job..

I agree with you there. Can't argue with the likely outcome though can we?

[Rjk]

of course the story is about his skin colour, thats basically the only interesting thing about it.

Take that away and you have Welsh labour leader replaced by another Welsh Labour leader - its going to be of very limited interest to anyone outside wales, and very few inside.

There isn't even anything particularly interesting you can say about him policy wise, he's just another bland politician.

Complain about the stranglehold of Labour on welsh politics all you like, but the fact of it is, the Conservatives have utterly failed in offering any kind of realistic opposition here in decades, it is their fault entirely - their current leader is a joke and until they start offering something that Wales wants, rather than just a Welsh mouthpiece for English policies then they will remain in the Wilderness here.

[JamesWales]

If anyone 'doesn't get it', or doesn't want to get it, it is you James. You will be bleating 'white lives matter' next!

If racism didn't exist there may be more value to your comments - but racism does still exist in our society. The 'negative stereotypes' are out there causing damage. When it comes to health outcomes, employment and earnings, treatment by the criminal justice system, direct prejudice and exposure to abuse and attack, racism is still alive and kicking in the UK. It is not the same as one two or three generations ago but it is still there.

While ever that is the case the achievements of people from communities without structural privilege need to be celebrated (however flawed they are as individuals) - to break the glass ceiling and stereotypes and to inspire the next generation. It isn't enough. Margaret Thatcher didn't transform the prospects of women (in some ways she made it worse), Rishi Sunak hasn't swept away racism in society (in some ways for some communities he is making it worse) but the symbolism of their roles and status makes us all think a little differently about the world. They help bring about a new normal.

Where did I say we didn't have any racism in the country?

This is about how we define ourselves, collectively or individually and separated and defined by our race.

I suggest thats deeply regressive and will only drive our society apart.

[JamesWales]

Interesting the way you’re in the habit of accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being “divisive” - I was surprised to see you using the word to describe me last week and thought it was an odd word to use. I disagree with you on an awful lot of things politically, but that doesn’t automatically make me divisive - there are quite a few words that spring to my mind to describe you when you’re disagreeing with me, but divisive is not one of them, your use of it comes over as a tad egotistical.

It's literally dividing people into racial groups and emphasising that above their political positions, views or other parts of their history.

That's why I say it's divisive, because it is.

Same as Bulut is, I assume, our first Muslim manager. Is that what we should care about most?

How about reports on Mr Gethings policies, or just announcing him as the winner without referencing his skin colour.

The problem here is that when it's done, it's done by others too. So a criminal becomes a black criminal or a Polish criminal or a gypsy criminal etc etc.

It's not about these things not mattering. It's about whether they should be considering the most important issue, the defining part of someone's personality.

I would suggest they shouldnt.