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Thread: Evolving or Mutating?

  1. #26

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    With the entire internet at your disposal, you should be able to prove this before darkess.
    Dont need to. Ive got faith that hes correct and thats all that matters, isnt it?

  2. #27

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canton Kev View Post
    Dont need to. Ive got faith that hes correct and thats all that matters, isnt it?
    Everyone has faith in something or someone, it's WHO you are placing that faith in that matters. Jon59 (who you were replying to) wants there to be no truth in God's Word but (1) He can't successfully refute a single claim from a book that has 1189 chapters and was written by 40 different people over 2000 years ago; (2) He has nothing to offer as an opposing world view, therefore he just has denial as a flag to wave with no ability to defend any alternative position whatsoever.

    If that appears to be a safe, robust and admiral position to be in, then fill your boots

  3. #28

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Everyone has faith in something or someone, it's WHO you are placing that faith in that matters. Jon59 (who you were replying to) wants there to be no truth in God's Word but (1) He can't successfully refute a single claim from a book that has 1189 chapters and was written by 40 different people over 2000 years ago; (2) He has nothing to offer as an opposing world view, therefore he just has denial as a flag to wave with no ability to defend any alternative position whatsoever.

    If that appears to be a safe, robust and admiral position to be in, then fill your boots
    Thats sounding awfully similar to someone elses indefensible ideas that youd find on the nearest bookshelf

  4. #29
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    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Everyone has faith in something or someone, it's WHO you are placing that faith in that matters. Jon59 (who you were replying to) wants there to be no truth in God's Word but (1) He can't successfully refute a single claim from a book that has 1189 chapters and was written by 40 different people over 2000 years ago; (2) He has nothing to offer as an opposing world view, therefore he just has denial as a flag to wave with no ability to defend any alternative position whatsoever.

    If that appears to be a safe, robust and admiral position to be in, then fill your boots
    You want me to prove that the world wasnt created in 7 days, that stone age prophets didnt live to nearly a thousand years, that Lots wife did not turn into salt, that animals cannot spontaneously speak in human languages, that water cannot be turned into wine (it does work in reverse!) and that dead people cannot become undead?

    You have obviously found a way of wasting your life with all that invention (and have decided it is all literally true, not metaphor), or else you are just a compulsive WUM. But some of us have other priorities. The real world is enough, without the need for magic and snake oil.

    BTW I am still waiting (but not with bated breath) for you to square the Big Bang with Genesis.

  5. #30

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    You want me to prove that the world wasnt created in 7 days, that stone age prophets didnt live to nearly a thousand years, that Lots wife did not turn into salt, that animals cannot spontaneously speak in human languages, that water cannot be turned into wine (it does work in reverse!) and that dead people cannot become undead?

    You have obviously found a way of wasting your life with all that invention (and have decided it is all literally true, not metaphor), or else you are just a compulsive WUM. But some of us have other priorities. The real world is enough, without the need for magic and snake oil.

    BTW I am still waiting (but not with bated breath) for you to square the Big Bang with Genesis.
    No problem, first of all, what are you saying actually exploded and where did it come from?

  6. #31

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    As we enter the third day of Jon's deliberation, here is a surprisingly unfillfilling article on "THE BIG BANG" by the ultra reliable newspaper known as The Guardian.

  7. #32
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    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    No problem, first of all, what are you saying actually exploded and where did it come from?
    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    As we enter the third day of Jon's deliberation, here is a surprisingly unfillfilling article on "THE BIG BANG" by the ultra reliable newspaper known as The Guardian.
    I'm sorry. Were you expecting a reply?

    I thought your usual evasion and deflection was just your way of giving up on the argument? It has been in the past.

    FWIW I don't have an answer for what existed before the big bang - or didn't exist. I sometimes get my head partly around the idea of non-linear time, and folds in space, and anti-matter and all the other mind bending exciting stuff from mathematics and astronomy.

    But it's not my world and I don't need the answer to accept the best available scientific theories about the origins, size and expansion of the universe.

    However, in the interests of even handedness. If you are not prepared to explain how the Big Bang fits with Genesis, then tell us who created your god. And who created the creator of your god? And.... repeat to fade. Always good for a laugh!

  8. #33

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    I’m still waiting for Truthpaste to answer my questions posted on the 7th Jan

  9. #34

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevo View Post
    I’m still waiting for Truthpaste to answer my questions posted on the 7th Jan
    He is looking for a suitable passage from the book.

  10. #35

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
    He is looking for a suitable passage from the book.
    I'm sure there's something vague enough to pass the test.

  11. #36

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Apologies Stevo, I missed your two questions in the one post (hopefully this will last a bit longer than the UFO enquiry).
    The Bible certainly speaks about the impact of mistakes in the genome happening as time moves on by the specific instructions given by God to his people. Does it talk about DNA by name? Obviously not as it would only be those in very recent history who would have understood what that meant. Think about the amount of recent police cases that have been reopened with some producing convictions decades later because of recent discoveries in this field.
    As for your second question, science is desperate to find a 'missing link' and has produced many false flags including Piltdown Man. I can confidently predict he will not, because like every other thing He has told us, God is *always completely reliable the first time he makes a statement, unlike *man.

  12. #37

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Apologies Stevo, I missed your two questions in the one post (hopefully this will last a bit longer than the UFO enquiry).
    The Bible certainly speaks about the impact of mistakes in the genome happening as time moves on by the specific instructions given by God to his people. Does it talk about DNA by name? Obviously not as it would only be those in very recent history who would have understood what that meant. Think about the amount of recent police cases that have been reopened with some producing convictions decades later because of recent discoveries in this field.
    As for your second question, science is desperate to find a 'missing link' and has produced many false flags including Piltdown Man. I can confidently predict he will not, because like every other thing He has told us, God is *always completely reliable the first time he makes a statement, unlike *man.
    No worries, thanks for replying.

    Before Darwin's false claim that Piltdown man was the missing link between apes and humans and since proved as a hoax, it had lost its validity with the discovery of subsequent finds such as the Taung Child and Peking Man. Have you ever visited the Nation History museum in London? Either way, you haven't completely answered my question about Neanderthals - if you don't believe Neanderthals and other subfamilies of homininae are related to humans, are you saying they are unrelated to humans and therefore a different species entirely or never existed at all?

    Thanks.

  13. #38

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevo View Post
    No worries, thanks for replying.

    Before Darwin's false claim that Piltdown man was the missing link between apes and humans and since proved as a hoax, it had lost its validity with the discovery of subsequent finds such as the Taung Child and Peking Man. Have you ever visited the Nation History museum in London? Either way, you haven't completely answered my question about Neanderthals - if you don't believe Neanderthals and other subfamilies of homininae are related to humans, are you saying they are unrelated to humans and therefore a different species entirely or never existed at all?

    Thanks.
    Darwin? Don't you mean Dawson? And I don't mean Les....

  14. #39

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    God is *always completely reliable the first time he makes a statement, unlike *man.
    Why did god flood the earth and kill all life bar 8 people and 2 of every animal? Sounds like he made a bit of a cock up and tried to see if the old turn it off and on again trick would cover his back.

  15. #40

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie View Post
    Darwin? Don't you mean Dawson? And I don't mean Les....
    You're quite right. Senior moment. Darwin of course was no fraud

  16. #41

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevo View Post
    You're quite right. Senior moment. Darwin of course was no fraud
    Best not confuse truthpaste who conflates science with scientists. Science is there to be discovered (despite incomplete, misunderstood, partly understood or even false information being gleaned and/or promulgated by various individuals).
    A false or incorrect premise by an individual, whether he or she is considered to be a scientist, does not invalidate science itself. Peer evaluation and additional information over the long term tends to lead to such cases being debunked.
    To imagine that scientists around the world are in cahoots is unbelievable laughable - as is the notion of science being a mirror of religion. It's the complete antithesis of religion in that even the most famous reputable scientists in the world revise their position if new data becomes available and which disproves their previous understanding.

  17. #42

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    I'm sorry. Were you expecting a reply?

    I thought your usual evasion and deflection was just your way of giving up on the argument? It has been in the past.

    FWIW I don't have an answer for what existed before the big bang - or didn't exist. I sometimes get my head partly around the idea of non-linear time, and folds in space, and anti-matter and all the other mind bending exciting stuff from mathematics and astronomy.

    But it's not my world and I don't need the answer to accept the best available scientific theories about the origins, size and expansion of the universe.

    However, in the interests of even handedness. If you are not prepared to explain how the Big Bang fits with Genesis, then tell us who created your god. And who created the creator of your god? And.... repeat to fade. Always good for a laugh!
    No, you actually gave up, until kicked back into life. People like Gofer and myself don't give up, mainly because we have something to say, as we are not standing on other people's opinions and as a result we are not short of an answer.

    As you've again demonstrated (above), if a scientist doesn't tell you what to think, you have nothing to offer, hence my question. I knew you had no answer, because they have no answer about the origin of the 'big bang' either.

    So let's get up to speed here; you are actually asking me this question; science has offered a way of understanding the moment this dimension began, it hasn't quite finished working out the idea from the start, yet you want to use it as a way of questioning Genesis!

    So try getting an understanding first, and then question the account given by God, because a half baked idea is just that - an idea, mainly for people who have no idea at all

  18. #43
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    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    No, you actually gave up, until kicked back into life. People like Gofer and myself don't give up, mainly because we have something to say, as we are not standing on other people's opinions and as a result we are not short of an answer.

    As you've again demonstrated (above), if a scientist doesn't tell you what to think, you have nothing to offer, hence my question. I knew you had no answer, because they have no answer about the origin of the 'big bang' either.

    So let's get up to speed here; you are actually asking me this question; science has offered a way of understanding the moment this dimension began, it hasn't quite finished working out the idea from the start, yet you want to use it as a way of questioning Genesis!

    So try getting an understanding first, and then question the account given by God, because a half baked idea is just that - an idea, mainly for people who have no idea at all
    Another pile of pathetic evasion. The only thing in that lot that is true is that you don't give up - you stick around like a rash.

    You posted a reference to a scientist who was a believer in your religion but whose work underpinned our current understanding of the beginning of the universe - the Big Bang.

    I asked you how the Big Bang is consistent with Genesis - because if it's not you have succeeded again in undermining your own fantasy belief system.

    Since then you have evaded and deflected and ducked and weaved. If you haven't got an answer - even if it is just the two things are incompatible - then just say so and give us a rest from all your bollux. Thanks.

  19. #44

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Truthpaste - you still havent answered my question on the evolution of Homo sapiens.

    Even so, I have another (broader) question - what science do you agree with? Periodic table? The fact that all elements beyond hydrogen and helium in the periodic table, including those that make up our bodies were created in dying stars?

    Furthermore, how big is the universe? Are you okay with the theories on quantum physics and does God play with dice? What are your views on Heisenbergs uncertainty principle? Interested to hear your thoughts on what elements of science you do agree with.

  20. #45

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevo View Post
    Truthpaste - you still haven’t answered my question on the evolution of Homo sapiens.

    Even so, I have another (broader) question - what science do you agree with? Periodic table? The fact that all elements beyond hydrogen and helium in the periodic table, including those that make up our bodies were created in dying stars?

    Furthermore, how big is the universe? Are you okay with the theories on quantum physics and does God play with dice? What are your views on Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle? Interested to hear your thoughts on what elements of science you do agree with.
    Thanks for asking and engaging, it makes a refreshing change. I've got a lot happening at the moment but should have sufficient time to answer you on Monday or Tuesday. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

  21. #46

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    Thanks for asking and engaging, it makes a refreshing change. I've got a lot happening at the moment but should have sufficient time to answer you on Monday or Tuesday. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
    Thanks, no rush. No doubt youre busy preparing for the imminent apocalypse

  22. #47

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
    BTW I am still waiting (but not with bated breath) for you to square the Big Bang with Genesis.
    Many Christians are happy to go with the idea of a big bang which may or may not be true, but it remains (in scientific terms) an idea that still has no substantive details on it's origin or cause. So there is whatsoever no NEED to square the Genesis account with any half baked idea at all. But hearing your views and questions is always helpful.

  23. #48

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevo View Post
    Thanks, no rush. No doubt you’re busy preparing for the imminent apocalypse
    I'm ready for all future events and have been for a few decades, but thanks for the thought.

    To answer your questions re science, then all verified things such as the periodic table are naturally accepted by Bible believers; and you can be sure that all serious readers would never expect to find (nor have they ever found) any new factual data that is able to dismiss the testimony given by God in Scripture. It's also interesting to note that science when dealing only in the facts and not speculation, will always point the student towards God rather than away from Him. Fibonacci numbers are one example of this, with such structures being found not only on earth but also visible billions of miles away across universe.

    You also mentioned quantum physics; Max Planck (the founder of quantum physics) believed that the order of the universe points towards a God, stating that "for the believer, God stands at the beginning of their speeches; for the physicist, at the end of them".

  24. #49

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthpaste View Post
    I'm ready for all future events and have been for a few decades, but thanks for the thought.

    To answer your questions re science, then all verified things such as the periodic table are naturally accepted by Bible believers; and you can be sure that all serious readers would never expect to find (nor have they ever found) any new factual data that is able to dismiss the testimony given by God in Scripture. It's also interesting to note that science when dealing only in the facts and not speculation, will always point the student towards God rather than away from Him. Fibonacci numbers are one example of this, with such structures being found not only on earth but also visible billions of miles away across universe.

    You also mentioned quantum physics; Max Planck (the founder of quantum physics) believed that the order of the universe points towards a God, stating that "for the believer, God stands at the beginning of their speeches; for the physicist, at the end of them".
    Structures seen billions of miles away?Total fabrication.

  25. #50

    Re: Evolving or Mutating?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeepster View Post
    Structures seen billions of miles away?Total fabrication.
    The Hubble Space Telescope can see out to a distance of several billions of light-years - link

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