Could Ramsey's absence be beneficial?

[The Lone Gunman]

Could Aaron Ramsey’s absence actually be a benefit for the rest of the season? I know that won’t be a popular idea with some, but I believe it might be.

Ramsey has started six Championship games this season and also made two lengthy sub appearances. The team’s record with him in it is appalling:

P 8, W 0, D 3, L5, GF 5, GA 16, Pts 3

Ramsey’s absence will give Omer Riza and his coaching staff fewer options in the centre of midfield and, as odd as this might sound, I reckon that may prove a plus-point. Riza seemingly can’t resist tinkering with the starting line-up on a regular basis and there’s no doubt in my mind that’s a significant part of the problem.

Ramsey has shown the occasional touch of class during his eight league appearances, but generally he’s looked well off the pace. He hasn’t had anything like the sort of positive influence everyone hoped he would and his habit of regularly conceding possession has been an accident waiting to happen. I reckon that, on balance, the team will probably be better off without him.

[Rjk]

I definitely agree about the tinkering - I think that's been a big part of our problems since bulut left. And if Ramsey isn't available then that should hopefully reduce that, as we know that Ramsey hasn't been able to play 2 games a week.

I think since his recent return he wasn't looking bad individually, but his inclusion naturally creates a lot of changes in the midfield.

[superfeathers]

In his defence, the form without him in the team is equally bad.

It's a hard one to answer because I don't think it helps having a player who can't play every game, but at the same time he's been marginally less shit than others if you ask me

[The Lone Gunman]

In his defence, the form without him in the team is equally bad.

Not so. But before I provide these stats, I should say that I'm fully aware the team's form is never down to one player alone, no matter who is. Nevertheless, the following is the situation this season in league matches:

Win percentage with Ramsey in the side - 0%
Draw percentage with Ramsey in the side - 37%
Loss percentage with Ramsey in the side - 63%

Win percentage without Ramsey in the side - 28%
Draw percentage without Ramsey in the side - 31%
Loss percentage without Ramsey in the side - 41%

[superfeathers]

Not so. But before I provide these stats, I should say that I'm fully aware the team's form is never down to one player alone, no matter who is. Nevertheless, the following is the situation this season in league matches:

Win percentage with Ramsey in the side - 0%
Draw percentage with Ramsey in the side - 37%
Loss percentage with Ramsey in the side - 63%

Win percentage without Ramsey in the side - 28%
Draw percentage without Ramsey in the side - 31%
Loss percentage without Ramsey in the side - 41%

I’m no mathematician so no doubt whatsoever what im saying is flawed but surely if we’ve played a lot more games without him, there’s bound to be a bigger chance of getting the odd win?

[The Lone Gunman]

I’m no mathematician so no doubt whatsoever what im saying is flawed but surely if we’ve played a lot more games without him, there’s bound to be a bigger chance of getting the odd win?

8 games with him - zero wins.
29 games without him - eight wins.

Ramsey's record this season reads zero goals, zero assists.

He was instrumental in the equaliser against Bristol City last month with his through ball to Ashford, but apart from that I can't recall anything positive Ramsey has done in the final third this season (but there may be some involvement I've forgotten or didn't see).

[superfeathers]

8 games with him - zero wins.
29 games without him - eight wins.

Ramsey's record this season reads zero goals, zero assists.

He was instrumental in the equaliser against Bristol City last month with his through ball to Ashford, but apart from that I can't recall anything positive Ramsey has done in the final third this season (but there may be some involvement I've forgotten or didn't see).

Of the 8 games, 50% of them have been against teams currently sitting in the top 8. One of those was a narrow loss against Burnley away. The other 50% of games we drew three.
I don't think it's a fair comparison to be fair.
But given how injury prone he is now, I'd rather get a side together that can fight in every game than keep tinkering. I said in a previous post that I hope he retires.

[Rjk]

8 games with him - zero wins.
29 games without him - eight wins.

Ramsey's record this season reads zero goals, zero assists.

He was instrumental in the equaliser against Bristol City last month with his through ball to Ashford, but apart from that I can't recall anything positive Ramsey has done in the final third this season (but there may be some involvement I've forgotten or didn't see).

comparing data with different sample sizes is usually more complicate than just looking at the overall success rate.

for example, if you took a random selection of 8 the 29 games we've played without him there's a reasonable chance you would come up with 0 wins as well.

Or to give another example - if someone has scored their first 10 penalties they have a 100% success rate, however, someone who has scored 49/50 penalties can be argued to be statistically the better penalty taker.

[City123]

Not so. But before I provide these stats, I should say that I'm fully aware the team's form is never down to one player alone, no matter who is. Nevertheless, the following is the situation this season in league matches:

Win percentage with Ramsey in the side - 0%
Draw percentage with Ramsey in the side - 37%
Loss percentage with Ramsey in the side - 63%

Win percentage without Ramsey in the side - 28%
Draw percentage without Ramsey in the side - 31%
Loss percentage without Ramsey in the side - 41%

Its a pretty reductive way to look at it though isn't it? Most of his games came in that shocking spell under Bulut, if we're discounting players based on our start then we'd struggle to field an 11. More recently he was a pivotal part of getting the equaliser against Bristol City and important in keeping control after we went down to 10 at Plymouth. Without those 2 points we're in the bottom 3

He's a good player, we're in a bad situation in the league and with other injuries/players only just coming back. I don't think losing anyone is particularly beneficial considering the situation we're in

[The Lone Gunman]

More recently he was a pivotal part of getting the equaliser against Bristol City and important in keeping control after we went down to 10 at Plymouth.

Bristol City I agree with, but I think Plymouth's pushing it. It was only the fact that they were hopeless that got us out of that mess.

[The Lone Gunman]

Its a pretty reductive way to look at it though isn't it?

OK, so I'll be even more reductive: I believe Ramsey has been picked this season on reputation rather than form and fitness.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Its a pretty reductive way to look at it though isn't it? Most of his games came in that shocking spell under Bulut, if we're discounting players based on our start then we'd struggle to field an 11. More recently he was a pivotal part of getting the equaliser against Bristol City and important in keeping control after we went down to 10 at Plymouth. Without those 2 points we're in the bottom 3

He's a good player, we're in a bad situation in the league and with other injuries/players only just coming back. I don't think losing anyone is particularly beneficial considering the situation we're in

If Luton was included, did we finish in a worse position than we were when he was playing?

Were the games against top teams like Burnley, Leeds, Sunderland?

Also due to injuries he doesn't get a sustained run of games to play at his best, but that might be one reason why we may benefit from him not being availble.

[Hilts]

No.

We have such a lack of quality all over the pitch and I'd rather have him available as an option even if it's a 20-25 minute appearance at the end of a game which is probably what he should have been used for anyway.

I get Rizas tinkering and one less option but he's going to screw up with whoever he's got anyway.

[dandywarhol]

He turned the game against Hull. Less of an influence again Luton. In my opinion it's a crying shame.

[The Lone Gunman]

He turned the game against Hull.

He didn't play against Hull.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I thought his signing was sentimental from the off.

[insider]

When we signed him I thought he'd be carrying us.
Sadly we've been carrying him when he's been fit.

[the other bob wilson]

I’d say we played our best football this season with David Turnbull in our midfield and he’s going to be back soon apparently - it’ll be asking a lot for him to turn things around, but I’d say he’s been more influential for us than Ramsey in the few games they’ve both managed to play.

[MOZZER2]

I’d say we played our best football this season with David Turnbull in our midfield and he’s going to be back soon apparently - it’ll be asking a lot for him to turn things around, but I’d say he’s been more influential for us than Ramsey in the few games they’ve both managed to play.

yes agree regarding Turnbull

as this board appears to be obsessed with stats these days some one posted some interesting ones on X regarding first team squad

Points we've gained when a player starts a match and the average points we've gained when a player starts during 24/25. No cup ties included.

Top 3 players this season

Cian Ashford = 10 starts , 15 points , Average 1.50
Turnbull = 8 starts , 12 points , Average 1.50
Tanner - 14 starts , 19 poinys , Average 1.35

i won't put up the stats for Kanga

[Trigger]

I wouldn't disagree with you, only lingering doubt i'd have is whether the last few weeks he was getting back to being fully match fit and then maybe he could have had a positive impact.

[Tuerto]

He just needs to retire now. He's 34, lost a yard, suffers from muscle tears. I don't think that it was ever a good idea for him to play at this level, certainly at a club struggling the way we have been over the past few years. It's best he stops now. Maybe he should have gone further back, played in between the defence and midfield, with the option to step in and be that extra man when we're in possession, but it's all academic, he's done.

[City123]

OK, so I'll be even more reductive: I believe Ramsey has been picked this season on reputation rather than form and fitness.

If that were the case he'd have played every game since his return from injury

[The Lone Gunman]

If that were the case he'd have played every game since his return from injury

He can't play two games a week according to his manager.

[rich munn]

Ramsey's absence will mean, if Riza stays, that he won't be able to use his tactic of "give it to Ramsey and hope something happens."

It will probably now be "give it to El Ghazi and watch the move peter out."

[splott parker]

It may be beneficial due to the fact that he’s head & shoulders above the rest of the abysmal lot. Without him at least the team will be on the same ‘football brain’ level. You could place Messi alongside any 10 of our squad and he’d look completely out of touch. I know they were a lot younger, although Ramsey was recovering from a serious injury, but the few games they played together him & Bellamy complemented each other due to their different ability to the others.

It’s horses for courses, Ramsey is Ascot, the others are Ely Racecourse.