Reply With QuoteYou mean like this fellaOriginally Posted by Barry Dragon
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-bought-brexit
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And did all of those five vote for the same thing? What was it they were expecting when they voted? It's all very well saying one side won and that should be an end to it, but there are so many nuances involved with both sides of the argument that a simple yes or no vote was never going to produce a united remain or leave camp.
Say at the end of the two years after Article 50 is invoked the Government announces that they were able to get a deal which more or less keeps us in the single market, but this is at the expense of several of the things people wanted done about immigration, do you think that will satisfy all of those who voted to leave?
Last edited by the other bob wilson; 03-11-16 at 14:03.
You mean like this fella
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-bought-brexit
It was a binary vote - in or out. It was presented to the people as a binary vote. There wasn't a vote on the terms of leaving. Nor do I recall anyone calling for the inclusion of such a range of options in the referendum. Inevitably, barring some freak circumstance, one side was going to win. And unless there was a landslide verdict, a large number of people were always going to be unhappy with the result.
In any case, that wasn't my point. My point is that it is perfectly possible to have voted to leave and still be a reasonably intelligent human being. I ought to add that we'll have another member of the family with a medical doctorate next year.
Do you know what their reasons for voting leave were? Genuine question.
They're all racists.
Stats and lies.
You could say 28% wanted to stay and 72% wanted to leave or didnt mind.
I voted leave mainly for the labelling of Leave voters as racist and xeneophobic. It did my tits in. Patronising, self-aggrandising remain voters.
I don't think you know how much you contributed to Brexit.
Mind numbingly boring idea.
Most EU migrants are not brown, for a start.
Migration from outside the EU contributes more to the arrival of those brown people you think we hate.
And that didn't even matter during the ref.
Last edited by LordKenwyne; 03-11-16 at 14:57.
I know that my wife and my main concern was the seemingly endless erosion of the ability of the UK to make any decisions for the benefit of the people of the UK.
Indeed.
But no matter which way you slice it, in this instance the minority have voted for something which impacts on the majority.
A bit like the current Tory government.
OK, thanks.
Not trying to be awkward, but what decisions that would otherwise benefit the people of the UK can we no longer make?
Sorry to butt in but here's one: http://libertarianhome.co.uk/2015/03...ionist-racket/
Listen I appreciate this is a genuine attempt at debate rather than a wind up but I really don't want to have to go through all the arguments about whether we should or shouldn't leave again. It's done. The issue now is whether the decision made by the electorate should be carried out. I think it should. Others disagree. Fine. But a great many in the Remain camp seem to think they have a monopoly on intelligence and political knowledge. They don't.
This has been planned for some time ,all going to plan , nothing happening for years ,and years ,and years,and years and years
Not the Illuminati again is it?
People outside the political bubble bang on about no plan , don't know what to do now ,they have known whats what for years , its self preservation politics.
The referendum involved a simple choice, but the consequences of going one of the two ways are enormous. Despite what I said about nuances within the remain camp, it's true to say that a remain vote would have seen things stay much the same as they were before - that's certainly not the case now.
My point is that your "large number of people" who were always going to be unhappy is unlikely to consist solely of remain voters in the future. I can easily see the broad coalition of leave voters fracturing as it becomes clear that Brexit doesn't mean what many of them thought it would when they voted and that is why I maintain that if you asked five leave voters what they were expecting if the referendum went their way, you'd probably have got three or four different answers.
I can't speak for others, but I always thought it was insulting to label all leave voters as thick racists. However, I will always maintain that the way the campaign was conducted by some (e.g. Farage) meant that the small minority of Brexit voters who were thick racists could have felt that their views were being vindicated in a way that you don't get in general elections and, in a contest where the margins were so close, their votes probably proved crucial.
However, I see no point in arguing over a vote that is now history. The thing is that, as far as I'm aware, none of the mainstream parties or the senior figures on the remain side are saying that all bets are off now as far as Brexit is concerned because of this morning's High Court verdict. Brexit is still on, but it's now going to be less straightforward - speaking as someone who voted remain, but fully accepts that we are going to leave the EU, I'm pleased that this is the case because the consequences are too huge for them to be decided by a favoured few high up in the Tory party.
I've noticed every time someone from the public speaks out in life or in the media , first point on their lips is migration ,sometimes masked as other problem such as housing, doctor surgeries ,pressures our jobs . Ironically the same people don't seem to get so worried about paying benefits to white indigenous, whilst migrants do work those jobs such as farming , hotel work and cleaning in anti social hours .
Bankers caused most of this austerity crap , job loss , fund drops,wage freezing , but they seem to escape any criticisms,migrants were a much easier target in my view .
This decision will have a price to pay unfortunalty for the very people who voted for it .
Your point " things stay much the same as they were before " is the key issue ,where our government / Cameron could not /did not negotiating a decent migration policy, if he had come back with a better plan we would have seen an "in "vote in my view ,wonder if that was always the plan ??.
The government could have set up specific migration rules, hot spot funding for areas to relieve public services congestion ,which leaves me to think we were the guinea pig and Europe wanted us out , to perhaps create a change in their own policy further down the road , and our government knew that, hence the lack of effort to fix it ,or was it just o get rid of UKIP threat, and expose labour on migration . ( just my view,we shall see )
Fair enough. I am pleased that you recognise I wasn't trying wind you up, I was just genuinely interested.
Totally agree that the remainers don't have the monopoly on intelligence, clearly they don't. Many Brexiters are similarly intelligent, and imho neither side were particularly well informed on the economic impact of their vote, whichever way it went.
I do however think that the process was flawed - the way the two campaigns were fought, the way the vote was structured, and the complete lack of a "Plan B" if the vote went the way it did.
Brexiters are NOT knuckle dragging thick racists, but it is surely undeniable that SOME were, and I for one do not think that is a sound basis for making such an important decision. Simple as that.
That makes all the difference
As a leave voter today does not bother me. We will be leaving the EU regardless of today's decision, this is a storm in a teacup.
As for the "knuckle draggers" comment, CCMBs liberal elite cabal rears it's ugly head again.
Phew, thanks for redressing the balance, I was starting to think that only clever people voted brexit.
Politics forum is back with a bang.
And the welsh assembly!!!!!!!!
Absolutely agree on that. If the Treasury had spent nearly as much time and effort putting together a contingency plan for Brexit instead of pumping out propaganda in favour of Remain, we'd be a lot further forward now.
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