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DML you don't get it. People aren't negative because of the results. They are negative because of the performances. The aimless hoofball that the team is now playing isn't just against Millwall. It's been evident in many games this season. The problem is people want to be entertained. They're not going to pay to watch that no matter how well the team is doing. And you can argue that point as much as you want but the crowds are poor for a team in our position.
I think a few of you are just expecting too much.
If you are unhappy now then God knows what you'd be like if we really were struggling.
We played some really good stuff at Leeds and for patches on Friday and at Sheff Weds.
We were also excellent against Sunderland.
To say 'ah yes but Sunderland are rubbish' is very disrespectful and seems a bit ignorant to me.
The side is made up mainly of cheap players and is a team mainly of battlers punching way above their weight. We've had a crippling injury list which has meant playing players out of position and some of our flair players losing form and fitness. I dare say we'd be a lot prettier if NML and Zohore were back to their early season levels.
Most fans just want a team who will give their all and we can't say we haven't got that.
I haven't seen a lot of sides in this league who play fast attractive football.. probably Brentford, Fulham and Wolves ..
2 of those sides have massive budgets we can only dream of and the 3rd seem to be a bit of a soft touch.
Nothing wrong with some constructive criticism, but some of the stuff I've read since our creditable point at Millwall just sounds like miserable old gits moaning for the sake of it.
We could always go back to aimless passing with Trollope and a relegation battle.
I honestly don't think people realise how difficult this league is. You only need to look at yesterday's results for the evidence. Even the likes of Sunderland, Bolton and Birmingham have a fair bit of quality in their squad.
To expect to pass our way through this division is frankly completely unrealistic.
I for one am just extremely grateful we are 2/3 of the way through the season and in with a shout.
I reckon at the end of it, even if we miss out we will look back and have a lot of fond memories from this campaign.
I can't wait for the next game
I think the frustrating thing v Millwall is we started well and then lost all control. We also had a player so badly out of form virtually everyone thinks he should have been replaced. We are not struggling with injuries the bench and those in reserve meant there were plenty of options. However it just went on and on with no change. When changes were made we had Millwall hanging on. Im not suggesting anything stupid like questioning the position of the manager. But hes taken a lot of credit and rightly so. But hes not behond criticism.
Also looking forward to the next game. Time to move on to the next one.
Grujic can pass, so can Bennett, Bamba and Manga if required to play it from the back.
That’s not the way Warnock wants to play though, he’s not going to change now, but we have been effective for most part of the season doing it his way so can’t really argue. Saying that we’ve only won 2 of the last 8 and not played well in at least 5 of those games. I just wish we would mix it up a little bit more. Play the wingers behind the fullback, or our fullbacks on the overlap and get some crosses in. After the good start Friday night it was just aimless stuff.
It's a question of balance. One of the biggest factors for me and an evidential point in my opinion, is the demise of Zohore's form this season. Last season, Warnock was not as direct as he has been this season. That may be down to players he has at his disposal, and that he hadn't had a pre-season or a real transfer window. This term he's been able to build a squad in his mould, and we do play much more direct, often by-passing the midfield and hitting the channels or wingers, that's absolutely fine when it comes off, but when teams squeeze our wide players and midfield, we can look desperate. Balls knocked into oblivion and no ability to keep hold of the ball in order to take the sting out of the game. Back to Zohore-last season, more often than not, the ball was played into his feet and support was offered, this season it's been channels and high balls, he can't play that way, he backs in, likes to turn a defender, it's no surprise that he isn't looking like the player we saw last season, and in my opinion it's a lot about the style of play.
The kind of football Warnock likes to play isn't really sustainable, it's only going to get us so far, anyone that disputes that claim doesn't really understand football, there needs to be a balance. The way we play is exciting when it's working, when teams decide to narrow us, or put our fullbacks under pressure, it can be awful, and at times clueless. That's not balance. I made the analogy earlier in the season that our style of play was comparable to a stereotypical action movie, not much plot, but explosive and entertaining, even though, deep down, you know that the quality isn't the best, you still have to watch, and are more often than not taken by thee rawness and endeavour of the main protagonist. If I was to do the same, then i'd say that the plot has got a little more complicated, with the 'bad guys' setting traps 'our hero' is finding a little difficult to navigate-let's hope his will and endeavour see's him riding off into the sunset.....
Like who ?
Damour isn't a good passer of the ball.
Polo mentions Bennett... maybe at a push
Manga.. he can pass but it's often more likely to cause us s problem
If you want a right back who can pass then play Richards
Bamba ? Now that is a desperate shout. He THINKS he can pass, but he can't. His passing is awful most of the time.
I agree with you regarding our passing capability - in fact they all can pass - They’re professional footballers FFS , so it must be about tactics from Warnock - probably on a game by game basis
Looking aimless isn’t something peculiar to us though. I sat through 90 mins of Spurs Arsenal yesterday and it was pretty drab stuff. I followed that up with the Jacks Burnley game and that was complete and utter shite.
Other than Man City who appear to be an exception most teams, most weeks serve up an approach that in the first instance seems to be about winning the game at any cost with no care for how they do it. How many dire Man Utd performances have their been this season? Plenty.
Last edited by StraightOuttaCanton; 11-02-18 at 10:55. Reason: Typo
Spurs passed Arsenal off the park and but for better finishing could have smashed them 5 or 6 nil. They opened them up and created umpteen chances in the 2nd half
If you think that was aimless and drab then we clearly have very different views on the game.
I don’t think anyone’s expecting us to play like Man City, or Spurs, or any top level side, but neither are they expecting us to play like a John Becks Cambridge.
Somewhere in the middle, where we have longer periods of control in what we are doing would be nice.
Think you missed my point
Sometimes teams are good and sometimes in a different game against different opposition (or even the same opposition) the same teams look shite. Arsenal played beautifully against Everton last week but were dull yesterday. Spurs thumped Southampton over Xmas yet a month later were lucky to get a point and couldn’t string 2 passes together
We look great some times and shit at others - as Tuerto pragmatically says - it’s about balance
There are two sentences in your above post that I want to challenge. The first sentence is that "Most fans just want a team who will give their all and we can't say we haven't got that."
I'm not sure that is strictly true these days otherwise our crowds would probably be a lot higher. I for one don't watch football to watch a bunch of work horses running around playing kick and rush football. We should expect 100% effort as a given but what most people want to see is players do things that we couldn't see in local football.
As football fans we've been exposed to football like Serie A and nowadays La Liga and we expect a bit more than big guys running about.
The second statement I'd like to dispute is "We could always go back to aimless passing with Trollope and a relegation battle."
Just because Trollope failed doesn't mean that the next manager who tries to adopt the same style will also be doomed to the same fate.
One thing I will say is that Warnock stays here for anymore windows and they follow the same pattern as the January window where he spends the majority of our budget on big limited footballers then it will be extremely difficult for the next manager to change things.
That's just rubbish.
Can't say I'm surprised.
Fulham and Brentford have sides full of passing players and consciously go out to recruit them.
We don't. Warnocks players are no-nonsense defenders , wingers and full backs who work hard, some with pace, and hard working, mainly physically big and strong midfielders and strikers.
Try to play like Brentford and Fulham and we will end up back where we were before he came in.
Do you think though that a lot of that is down to what we've got available.
For example, if Bryson was fit we'd pass it around more than if Patterson is playing in there.
Maybe also with Gunner although his passing is fairly poor.
Same for Zohore and NML - if they were playing and finding space then there would be something for the midfielders to pass to.
At the moment with what we've got I think it's expecting too much to be playing silky football.
Not to say we can't be better, as we can, but I think overall the criticism is OTT
Let's also remember our best passer wasn't 100% well on Friday and we were up against one of the most physical and hard working sides in the league - and seemed to have a lot of decisions go against us during the period when we lost our way. Difficult to pass it around when you are getting clattered and there was a little bit of panic going on too when Millwall were well on top.
At the start and end we played some good stuff.
We are going to have to see more if this if we are to beat Bolton, who like Birmingham, Preston, Bristol City and Millwall will match us physically and play direct as well
I agree we haven’t got the players to play like Fulham. We got rid of our best passer last summer, and the best technical player at the club was shipped out as Warnock couldn’t get him to the fitness levels he demanded.
However, I think you’re doing the current players a disservice by suggesting they can do little more than treat the ball like hot potato.
We are where we are at the moment because of our terrific start to the season, where we were playing better football than we are now, so we do have some footballing ability in there somewhere.
Would just be nice to see a bit more of it,
Tim, for me, it's getting a balance, somewhere in the middle of the two styles. It's how Liverpool played during their domination during the eighties. This is a nice debate to be having, some fans like the game played in their own mould, guts fire and determination, others want to see more technical quality, and thought, as well as effort and workrate. Nobody wants the team to fail, it's just a difference on style at different times during a game
I would really hope that we haven't as a fan base turned into one that only accepts tippy tapping and from the ones I know and that goes into the hundreds I would not say that was the case.
As for changing it, you pretty much said it yourself. We haven't got the personnel to do so.
By the way Trollope's football was not only inaffective, it was shit. Most boring rubbish I have ever seen and I'd say the low crowds were more to do with the 2-3 years of garbage under Trollope, Slade and Ole than the last 12 months of direct but entertaining football from Warnock. Hence the increase of many thousands on what it was with the others
In fairness Dan at times we DO play some good stuff.
First 15 and last 15 at Millwall, Long spells at Leeds, First 25-30 at Wednesday, 2nd half v Sunderland.
We just don't have the players available to reach the sort of levels some posters on here are expecting.
It may also be that Warnock was expecting Grujic to add some of this guile, but we've only seen the odd flash here and there off him.
Our current midfield just don't have the ability to get the ball down well enough under the sort of pressure teams like Millwall put us under