Come on politicans back May deal

[life on mars]

its not great , I honestly don't see Europe giving anyone a better deal, no matter what these "against the deal " politicians say ,they should stop playing selfish politics with such an important issue , some very unfortunate people who don't have the luxury or ease of wealth ,to see them through a no deal .

Shame on politicians for playing games with lives , none of you could negotiate anything very differently from this deal .

Labour could easily be brave , and get this done, if it didn't sniff a selfish reach for and election and power.

( Respect the vote ? be buggered , ironic yes )


People voted for a break, ( I didn't ) parliament doesn't agree ,so disrupts ?? lets not disturb democracy and its rights , however we agree or disagree with its outcome, we are where we are .

[Taunton Blue Genie]

its not great , I honestly don't see Europe giving anyone a better deal, no matter what these "against the deal " politicians say ,they should stop playing selfish politics with such an important issue , some very unfortunate people who don't have the luxury or ease of wealth ,to see them through a no deal .

Shame on politicians for playing games with lives , none of you could negotiate anything very differently from this deal .

Labour could easily be brave , and get this done, if it didn't sniff a selfish reach for and election and power.

( Respect the vote ? be buggered , ironic yes )


People voted for a break, ( I didn't ) parliament doesn't agree ,so disrupts ?? lets not disturb democracy and its rights , however we agree or disagree with its outcome, we are where we are .

I've yet to come across anyone who voted Brexit who knew the real consequences. And many of those who voted for it are not the type to keep themselves informed on a daily basis of the complexity that is unfolding. I didn't (ansd still don't like) the direction the EU is heading but the average person on the street was not well informed enough to have a sufficient understanding of what they were voting for and for what arrangement they expected at the end of it. That is not to say that an argument for Brexit is not valid but let's be honest and admit that the average person wasn't qualified to really weigh up all the pros and cons, me included. You only have to see the street vox pops on news programmes for people to reveal their incredible ignorance of the concepts and complexities involved. And presumably those who voted for Brexit wanted a hard Brexit as a halfway house didn't seem to be on the menu - so the latter option being promoted by the government is highly ironic. In short, no-one voted for that option.

[life on mars]

I've yet to come across anyone who voted Brexit who knew the real consequences. And many of those who voted for it are not the type to keep themselves informed on a daily basis of the complexity that is unfolding. I didn't (ansd still don't like) the direction the EU is heading but the average person on the street was not well informed enough to have a sufficient understanding of what they were voting for and for what arrangement they expected at the end of it. That is not to say that an argument for Brexit is not valid but let's be honest and admit that the average person wasn't qualified to really weigh up all the pros and cons, me included. You only have to see the street vox pops on news programmes for people to reveal their incredible ignorance of the concepts and complexities involved. And presumably those who voted for Brexit wanted a hard Brexit as a halfway house didn't seem to be on the menu - so the latter option being promoted by the government is highly ironic. In short, no-one voted for that option.

What is the option then ,surely a second vote would cause uproar and a generation of people to never vote gain ??

[Taunton Blue Genie]

What is the option then ,surely a second vote would cause uproar and a generation of people to never vote gain ??

It's not about 'a generation of people' possibly never voting again though - as it's not as if all the older generation voted for Brexit and the all the younger generation voted for Remain. And to proceed on a course of action that no-one voted for is quite perverse.

[life on mars]

It's not about 'a generation of people' possibly never voting again though - as it's not as if all the older generation voted for Brexit and the all the younger generation voted for Remain. And to proceed on a course of action that no-one voted for is quite perverse.

My point is around the reported many millions who don't usually register or vote who actual decided to do so in the EU referendum, hence the reported record 46.5million people who became motivated to vote or register to do so , surely many of those are likely to be lost , if this vote is ignored ,which could backlash actually more on Labour than the other parties ??

[Eric Cartman]

My point is around the reported many millions who don't usually register or vote who actual decided to do so in the EU referendum, hence the reported record 46.5million people who became motivated to vote or register to do so , surely many of those are likely to be lost , if this vote is ignored ,which could backlash actually more on Labour than the other parties ??

I would prefer our politicians to fight for what they believe in than support something they don't.

May's behaviour has been atrocious in this yet I notice you don't mention it. She is the ultimate game player, we could have known where we stood with regards to her deal before Christmas. She instead decided to use the looming threat of the deadline and no deal to force MPs to support something they disagree with. It doesn't look to have worked and she looks like an idiot now.

The ambiguity of the 2016 version of leave makes the next few months impossible without a clarification from the country. It is that or potentially something Norway-like, which will involve freedom of movement.

I am glad parliament have pushed back versus May because the UK was beginning to look like a banana republic dictatorship.

[lardy]

My point is around the reported many millions who don't usually register or vote who actual decided to do so in the EU referendum, hence the reported record 46.5million people who became motivated to vote or register to do so , surely many of those are likely to be lost , if this vote is ignored ,which could backlash actually more on Labour than the other parties ??

So about a third of them weren't motivated enough to actually vote in 2016.

[Wales-Bales]

So about a third of them weren't motivated enough to actually vote in 2016.

Not voting is also a democratic action, otherwise known as abstaining.

[Eric Cartman]

Does she even know when she is lying anymore?

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...embly-15673406

[the other bob wilson]

I would prefer our politicians to fight for what they believe in than support something they don't.

May's behaviour has been atrocious in this yet I notice you don't mention it. She is the ultimate game player, we could have known where we stood with regards to her deal before Christmas. She instead decided to use the looming threat of the deadline and no deal to force MPs to support something they disagree with. It doesn't look to have worked and she looks like an idiot now.

The ambiguity of the 2016 version of leave makes the next few months impossible without a clarification from the country. It is that or potentially something Norway-like, which will involve freedom of movement.

I am glad parliament have pushed back versus May because the UK was beginning to look like a banana republic dictatorship.

Let's not forget either that May had a majority large enough to be far more in control of things than she has been since the Conservative party decided we needed an election in 2017 - she was happy enough to see that election being portrayed a solely down to her at the time and she has to accept her share of the responsibility for her party's woeful campaign.

[the other bob wilson]

I've yet to come across anyone who voted Brexit who knew the real consequences. And many of those who voted for it are not the type to keep themselves informed on a daily basis of the complexity that is unfolding. I didn't (ansd still don't like) the direction the EU is heading but the average person on the street was not well informed enough to have a sufficient understanding of what they were voting for and for what arrangement they expected at the end of it. That is not to say that an argument for Brexit is not valid but let's be honest and admit that the average person wasn't qualified to really weigh up all the pros and cons, me included. You only have to see the street vox pops on news programmes for people to reveal their incredible ignorance of the concepts and complexities involved. And presumably those who voted for Brexit wanted a hard Brexit as a halfway house didn't seem to be on the menu - so the latter option being promoted by the government is highly ironic. In short, no-one voted for that option.

I agree with you, but I would also say that no one can blame "the man/woman in the street" for not understanding the basics, let alone the nuances, of the issues at stake when the guidance they were receiving from so many politicians from all parties (be they remainers or leavers) was so pathetic during the referendum campaign.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I agree with you, but I would also say that no one can blame "the man/woman in the street" for not understanding the basics, let alone the nuances, of the issues at stake when the guidance they were receiving from so many politicians from all parties (be they remainers or leavers) was so pathetic during the referendum campaign.

I didn't apportion blame as that would have involved not just voters the flaws inherent in democracy, referenda and populism.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I didn't apportion blame as that would have involved not just voters the flaws inherent in democracy, referenda and populism.

insert 'but also'

[the other bob wilson]

I didn't apportion blame as that would have involved not just voters the flaws inherent in democracy, referenda and populism.

Fair point .

[life on mars]

Well lots of anti Tory stuff ,what is the solution or plan if they are so useless ?

[Veg1960]

Well lots of anti Tory stuff ,what is the solution or plan if they are so useless ?

Perhaps you could clarify of the "lots of anti tory stuff" in this thread

[life on mars]

Perhaps you could clarify of the "lots of anti tory stuff" in this thread

Okay as I see it May is a Tory.

Anyway once again where is the depth of argument ,suggestions, proposal that brings to the table a different option that European leaders would agree too.

Besides May , is anyone able to bring forward a proposal that has viable where content and detail that appeals to all parties in the UK , and European leaders of 27 countries.

It's just political gesturing for personal gain .

[Veg1960]

Okay as I see it May is a Tory.

Anyway once again where is the depth of argument ,suggestions, proposal that brings to the table a different option that European leaders would agree too.

Besides May , is anyone able to bring forward a proposal that has viable where content and detail that appeals to all parties in the UK , and European leaders of 27 countries.

It's just political gesturing for personal gain .

That attack on May was not an attack on her as a tory, it was an attack on her as a person.

She is calling any attempt to frustrate the result of a referendum an affront to democracy, while having a history of doing precisely that herself.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Okay as I see it May is a Tory.

Anyway once again where is the depth of argument ,suggestions, proposal that brings to the table a different option that European leaders would agree too.

Besides May , is anyone able to bring forward a proposal that has viable where content and detail that appeals to all parties in the UK , and European leaders of 27 countries.

It's just political gesturing for personal gain .

I think you are missing the point. The reason why many of her own party is rejecting her deal is because it is inconsistent with what many Brexiteers voted for in the first place -as would any other compromise be.

[Heathblue]

I would prefer our politicians to fight for what they believe in than support something they don't.

May's behaviour has been atrocious in this yet I notice you don't mention it. She is the ultimate game player, we could have known where we stood with regards to her deal before Christmas. She instead decided to use the looming threat of the deadline and no deal to force MPs to support something they disagree with. It doesn't look to have worked and she looks like an idiot now.

The ambiguity of the 2016 version of leave makes the next few months impossible without a clarification from the country. It is that or potentially something Norway-like, which will involve freedom of movement.

I am glad parliament have pushed back versus May because the UK was beginning to look like a banana republic dictatorship.

I've been eligible to vote since 1979, she for me has been;

a) the most appalling PM during my time
b) is just playing out an agreement with the real rulers to run the clock down


I understand the withdrawal agreement, if that no agreement, the UK crashes out on WTO, but just do not see this happening irrespective whatever the agreement says/implies. Corbyn isn't getting off lightly either, what a spineless opposition leader.

TRUMP / CLINTON

MAY / CORBYN

Mackay/Warnock

What a time to be alive!!!.

[Eric Cartman]

Okay as I see it May is a Tory.

Anyway once again where is the depth of argument ,suggestions, proposal that brings to the table a different option that European leaders would agree too.

Besides May , is anyone able to bring forward a proposal that has viable where content and detail that appeals to all parties in the UK , and European leaders of 27 countries.

It's just political gesturing for personal gain .

It's your birthday, no one has bought you a cake so I stick a candle in a turd and bring it round to cheer you up, would you eat it?

The polls are pretty clear, the country doesn't want May's deal. Surely MP's (and our delightful PM) have a duty to reflect upon that and try to find another way, or did the will of the people only matter once?

[life on mars]

It's your birthday, no one has bought you a cake so I stick a candle in a turd and bring it round to cheer you up, would you eat it?

The polls are pretty clear, the country doesn't want May's deal. Surely MP's (and our delightful PM) have a duty to reflect upon that and try to find another way, or did the will of the people only matter once?

I get all that , but who , and how , and what, will deliver a better or alternative deal ,again do you or do you know of anyone with any detail .

It's like ducking groundhog day ,you have to surely offer an alternative.

How do you know its my birthday, you outside my house , if so i'm off out there now

[Eric Cartman]

I get all that , but who , and how , and what, will deliver a better or alternative deal ,again do you or do you know of anyone with any detail .

It's like ducking groundhog day ,you have to surely offer an alternative.

How do you know its my birthday, you outside my house , if so i'm off out there now

You are completely missing the point. The polls suggest that the country would rather no deal or remain than go through with this deal.

There are a few viable alternatives if May's red lines are taken out of the equation, all are worse than remaining so it certainly isn't a remainers job to describe the alternative. None offer the unicorns promised during the campaign.

Brexiteers don't want it, remainers don't want it, doesn't look like parliament doesn't want it. Only May, a minority of the house and 20% of the country want this deal so why do it?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Naff off may , you tried to destroy the Labour party when the polls were riding high , now sod off

[life on mars]

You are completely missing the point. The polls suggest that the country would rather no deal or remain than go through with this deal.

There are a few viable alternatives if May's red lines are taken out of the equation, all are worse than remaining so it certainly isn't a remainers job to describe the alternative. None offer the unicorns promised during the campaign.

Brexiteers don't want it, remainers don't want it, doesn't look like parliament doesn't want it. Only May, a minority of the house and 20% of the country want this deal so why do it?

I get all that ,however I truly believe whoever takes this on its going to run into 27 member states not likely to give us what we want ,I'm sure for example staying in the customer union and ,free movement is a red line if you take Turkey for example they have a second rate customs union ,it doesn't stop or solve border controls though like NI , free movement is also a redline for a lot of people not just the current lady ??

I just red these anti May conversations and I get it its not a great deal ,but where is the other detail of someone's else's deal ?


Simply shouting : "stand down or away" , "let someone else negotiate this deal " , "we need a general election" , "we need a second referendum" is so easy and simple , for the last time I simply want to see or here an alternative details proposition, surely a group of ell meaning/caring MP's could pull one together and slap it in front of May and publish it in the media , my bet is they scared it would receive the same vitriol and criticism .

Your bright enough to know they would rather just fire vitriol and criticism, as did the leave campaign , so they can meet their narrow political agenda.