Another mass shooting

[RonnieBird]

People who believe in God:
Dynamic
Self determining

People who don't believe in God
Subservient
Docile

That's certainly one way to look at it!!

First you got angry at all the 'youngsters' for questioning American gun policy. Now you are belittling the same people for being 'subservient and docile' when you are clearly quite chuffed at being a puppet controlled by the invisible and undetectable flying spaghetti monster. You are just a big bag of contradictions.

That's all a bit mixed up really Eric. It's not quite what I was saying of course, but leaving that aside I wonder why you pick up on the matter of religion. I'm not going to go too far into a debate about that, but I think you should question your own very strong reaction when God was mentioned.

[rudy gestede]

There are too many abortions - ban abortions
There is a drug problem - ban drugs
Gay marriage is a sin - ban gay marriage

Inordinate amount of people get shot - banning things doesn’t work

America currently has a white supremacy problem and a gun problem but people actually believe it’s being caused by mental illness and video games.

[Eric Cartman]

That's all a bit mixed up really Eric. It's not quite what I was saying of course, but leaving that aside I wonder why you pick up on the matter of religion. I'm not going to go too far into a debate about that, but I think you should question your own very strong reaction when God was mentioned.

Oh I wouldn't want to twist your words Ronnie.

Thing is that even if we think strict gun laws would achieve anything in terms of reducing gun crime, ( which I don't think it would in a huge country with so many guns already out there), is that a price worth paying ? Personally I'd say it's not

So to clarify, this is your position:

Even if gun control measures would reduce gun crime you still don't think it is a price worth paying?

[the other bob wilson]

I was there actually ! I wasn't demonstrating though.
That aside, I thought a lot of stuff which was nonsense when I was that age, but I didn't go round being as rude to decent people as some of this lot do, ( besides the point I know ). Might I have been naive and daft enough to think I was able to comment on such a complicated issue ? Maybe, but I think I'd have listened if someone who'd been around the block a bit put a different view and I'd have known that I probably still had a bit to learn .
To be honest with you Bob, I think I was more concerned at that age by the idea of making my own way and trying to get involved in the wider world than I was by theorising from afar on foreign affairs.

I expect that I suffered from all the faults of youth, but someone has to point out to kids that there's usually another side to things and that's all I was doing really .

The fact that those kids who were demonstrating and not listening to their elders were proved right (as the anti Aparthied demonstrators of a year later were as well) means nothing to you then?

[Rjk]

A comment I find strange on here is "the dumbed down generation".
Whoever said that can't have spent much time recently with the younger generations, ive been working with school kids, uni students and recent graduates recently and without exception I've found them to be remarkably bright, articulate, confident and personable.
When I think back to how I was at their age they put me to shame.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

A comment I find strange on here is "the dumbed down generation".
Whoever said that can't have spent much time recently with the younger generations, ive been working with school kids, uni students and recent graduates recently and without exception I've found them to be remarkably bright, articulate, confident and personable.
When I think back to how I was at their age they put me to shame.

It seems that every generation gets put down by their predecessors who remember halcyon days and the world being a better place.
Refreshingly, it was interesting to hear Alan Johnson (a former postman, union boss and Home Secretary) being interviewed on Radio 4 yesterday when he stated that the fifties wasn't the peaceful heaven for him but which others go on about.

Anyway, whatever your politics or age it is a really interesting interview on several levels:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0007bjb

[jon1959]

For the first time I think - and grudgingly - and wrapped around with weaselly deflection about video games and mental health - Trump has finally denounced the ideology of white supremacy that appears to have been behind one of the latest domestic terrorist massacres.

The words have changed slightly after 3 years, but there is no sign that actions will follow. That would require Presidential courage and leadership of the type that Trump could never give. There would also need to be a willingness to confront the NRA and other powerful lobbies, and to challenge the various cultures (including urban gang cultures) that feed the violence. Instead Trump panders to the NRA and abuses the victims of gun crime.

Maybe the revulsion amongst so many ordinary Americans will help to shift the debate and achieve pressure for change, but I think there has to be leadership and commitment from the federal government, and I just can't see it with this lot in power.

[rudy gestede]

A comment I find strange on here is "the dumbed down generation".
Whoever said that can't have spent much time recently with the younger generations, ive been working with school kids, uni students and recent graduates recently and without exception I've found them to be remarkably bright, articulate, confident and personable.
When I think back to how I was at their age they put me to shame.

The person who said dumbed down generation spends all his time sat at his computer reading right wing propaganda and thinking he’s a genius because he thinks the moon landings were faked.

I don’t know why anyone even bothers replying to him. This thread is all nonsense because of that one person posting ten times as much as anyone else. There’s no hope of a reasoned discussion on here.

[rudy gestede]

For the first time I think - and grudgingly - and wrapped around with weaselly deflection about video games and mental health - Trump has finally denounced the ideology of white supremacy that appears to have been behind one of the latest domestic terrorist massacres.

The words have changed slightly after 3 years, but there is no sign that actions will follow. That would require Presidential courage and leadership of the type that Trump could never give. There would also need to be a willingness to confront the NRA and other powerful lobbies, and to challenge the various cultures (including urban gang cultures) that feed the violence. Instead Trump panders to the NRA and abuses the victims of gun crime.

Maybe the revulsion amongst so many ordinary Americans will help to shift the debate and achieve pressure for change, but I think there has to be leadership and commitment from the federal government, and I just can't see it with this lot in power.

Trump was quoted 6 times in this guy’s manifesto. It’s too late to renounce anything, the damage has been done.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

There are too many abortions - ban abortions
There is a drug problem - ban drugs
Gay marriage is a sin - ban gay marriage

Inordinate amount of people get shot - banning things doesn’t work

America currently has a white supremacy problem and a gun problem but people actually believe it’s being caused by mental illness and video games.

Well how do you account for the number of shootings in the US when such things are rarer in comparable countries that ban guns from being sold to the public???
Are the inordinate numbers concerned comparable either side of the pond? I think not.

[lardy]

For the first time I think - and grudgingly - and wrapped around with weaselly deflection about video games and mental health - Trump has finally denounced the ideology of white supremacy that appears to have been behind one of the latest domestic terrorist massacres.

The words have changed slightly after 3 years, but there is no sign that actions will follow. That would require Presidential courage and leadership of the type that Trump could never give. There would also need to be a willingness to confront the NRA and other powerful lobbies, and to challenge the various cultures (including urban gang cultures) that feed the violence. Instead Trump panders to the NRA and abuses the victims of gun crime.

Maybe the revulsion amongst so many ordinary Americans will help to shift the debate and achieve pressure for change, but I think there has to be leadership and commitment from the federal government, and I just can't see it with this lot in power.

In a pretty amazing speech, Trump managed to get the name of the town wrong, despite it being on the teleprompter correctly.

Trump's teleprompter didnt even say Toledo!

Our President is a dumbass#WhiteSupremacistInChief pic.twitter.com/HalgFNxULY

— Alex Cole (@acnewsitics) August 5, 2019

He doesn't seem at all lucid, either. Sniffing a fair bit.

[Rjk]

Well how do you account for the number of shootings in the US when such things are rarer in comparable countries that ban guns from being sold to the public???
Are the inordinate numbers concerned comparable either side of the pond? I think not.

I don't think that was his opinion, just he was highlighting the illogical reasoning in the American right

[Heisenberg]

Unfortunately there are many people like you who kill the dreams and ambitions of youngsters by telling them they're ordinary, and it's a thing I despise.

Also RonnieBird: "the dumbed down generation".

[lardy]

Well how do you account for the number of shootings in the US when such things are rarer in comparable countries that ban guns from being sold to the public???
Are the inordinate numbers concerned comparable either side of the pond? I think not.

I think rudy is making a different point. That the US is quick to ban everything, except guns.

[rudy gestede]

Well how do you account for the number of shootings in the US when such things are rarer in comparable countries that ban guns from being sold to the public???
Are the inordinate numbers concerned comparable either side of the pond? I think not.

That’s the exact point I’m making. They’re happy with prohibition except for the thing they get huge back handers on.

To me it’s nuts that it’s such a partisan issue. Think of all the absolute idiots and arse holes you know. Would anyone be happy for them to be able to own multiple guns?

Of course banning guns will help, it’s helped in every other country that’s done it.

People say career criminals will still get guns, yes they will just as they do in every country. But are these the people shooting up schools, malls, fairs, universities?

[RonnieBird]

Also RonnieBird: "the dumbed down generation".

Well that's the tragedy of the dumbed down generation. They've been robbed of their individuality and proper impartial education which encourages them to consider all possibilities rather than only the 'approved' ones.
The dumbed down generation are victims of members of my generation who want them to be unthinking servants of their own ideologies and even though that frequently results in hostility from them toward anyone who wants to unlock them ,it's hardly their fault.

[Croesy Blue]

Well that's the tragedy of the dumbed down generation. They've been robbed of their individuality and proper impartial education which encourages them to consider all possibilities rather than only the 'approved' ones.
The dumbed down generation are victims of members of my generation who want them to be unthinking servants of their own ideologies and even though that frequently results in hostility from them toward anyone who wants to unlock them ,it's hardly their fault.

Jesus this guy has a cheek calling anyone else dumb.

[Rjk]

Well that's the tragedy of the dumbed down generation. They've been robbed of their individuality and proper impartial education which encourages them to consider all possibilities rather than only the 'approved' ones.
The dumbed down generation are victims of members of my generation who want them to be unthinking servants of their own ideologies and even though that frequently results in hostility from them toward anyone who wants to unlock them ,it's hardly their fault.

What are you basing these opinions of education on?
Or is it an assumption based on the number of younger people who don't hold your outdated opinions.

There is more information available now than at any time in history, and also more false information. The youth have grown up having to deal with this and are inherently much better equipped to deal with it.
Consider the Nigerian scam emails, would you say the young or old are more likely to fall victim to them?

[RonnieBird]

Oh I wouldn't want to twist your words Ronnie.



So to clarify, this is your position:

Even if gun control measures would reduce gun crime you still don't think it is a price worth paying?

No I don't Eric. It's a fundamental human right to own property and defend yourself, and until someone breaks the law I reject the suggestion that they should be punished for the potential or actual crimes of others.
Pre emptive legislation is the stuff of an Orwellian nightmare, and has no place whatever in a free country.

[Rjk]

Jesus this guy has a cheek calling anyone else dumb.

There is a staggering lack of self awareness, that I've only seen before in one other poster on here......

[Croesy Blue]

There is a staggering lack of self awareness, that I've only seen before in one other poster on here......

I opened this thread today expecting there to be a decent discussion about this but all it is, is him posting absolute rubbish. I have no idea why anyone entertains him.

[Heisenberg]

I opened this thread today expecting there to be a decent discussion about this but all it is, is him posting absolute rubbish. I have no idea why anyone entertains him.

You always say the same thing about WB/Gluey, but you end up replying to him. It's hard to ignore people sometimes (unless you actually have them on 'ignore', like a certain WB is).

[Rjk]

You always say the same thing about WB/Gluey, but you end up replying to him. It's hard to ignore people sometimes (unless you actually have them on 'ignore', like a certain WB is).

Done, and done

[Dorcus]

I opened this thread today expecting there to be a decent discussion about this but all it is, is him posting absolute rubbish. I have no idea why anyone entertains him.

It might be an alt-right bot Croesy; it seems to exhibit all the classic tropes.

[Croesy Blue]

It might be an alt-right bot Croesy; it seems to exhibit all the classic tropes.

This is him too btw, his first post:

Hi everyone,new poster here and long time lurker after getting mightily fed up with all the right wing crazies who infest *****' board.

I just thought that, although I have no evidence to support my belief, I don't happen to think that Wales- Bales and Ronnie are one and the same. Their writing styles are very different though their opinions are amazingly similar. So I'm inclined to believe Ronnie in this instance. I'm sure he(or she) is the alter ego of a poster who called himself Sir Jimmy Scoular on *****' board and constantly spouted the same drivel there. I'm amazed he left there and migrated here because he has more of an intellectual challenge to face on this board whereas he and his mate Yaxley-Lennon were treated as super heroes over there.