2010 Play off semi

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Agree with this, wouldn't put any of our current midfielders in the team ahead of McPhail.

Yep, in a decade, we've never brought in a centre midfielder whose strength is passing and being an attacking fulcrum.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You're wrong.

So , we did have a huge wages bill under jones then , according to your answer below ?

Very large wages , very little income coming in as most of the time we were at Ninian Park

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

That was the strategy, but to describe the wage bill as massive is inaccurate by Championship standards at the time. The wage bill that year was £16.7 million and the operating loss was under a million. The main problem was the club didn't have a rich backer and had no way to service its mounting debts.

Compare those figures to the recent Warnock promotion season, when the wage bill was more than £48 million and the operating loss was £34 million.

inaccurate is not wrong

Not quite correct , fair enough

But not wrong

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

That was the strategy, but to describe the wage bill as massive is inaccurate by Championship standards at the time. The wage bill that year was £16.7 million and the operating loss was under a million. The main problem was the club didn't have a rich backer and had no way to service its mounting debts.

Compare those figures to the recent Warnock promotion season, when the wage bill was more than £48 million and the operating loss was £34 million.

our wage bill was one of the highest in the division and considering our low turnover , it meant we were paying wages well beyond our means

Thats massive in my book

[Eric the Half a Bee]

our wage bill was one of the highest in the division and considering our low turnover , it meant we were paying wages well beyond our means

Thats massive in my book

Why we had to sell off our top players. It was hardly as if we had to sell them to survive.

[Bobby Dandruff]

By then we'd paid Sunderland the £4 million they'd paid us for him. Jay wasn't wanted by Wolves after a disappointing stint there.

With the Chopra transfer, it's probably close. Without it, it isn't.

Ultimately the team was put together from freebies and misfits by offering them good wages to perform. They failed to get us promoted, regardless of the entertainment.

Didn’t we get Chopra initially for £500k or something, then sell him to Sunderland for £5m only to buy him back for a very similar amount the season after, which suggests to me that very little of the transfer fee that Sunderland were supposed to pay, actually came our way and we got him back for close to zero, especially as we were skint at the time?

No way would we pay £5m for anyone back then!

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Didn’t we get Chopra initially for £500k or something, then sell him to Sunderland for £5m only to buy him back for a very similar amount the season after, which suggests to me that very little of the transfer fee that Sunderland were supposed to pay, actually came our way and we got him back for close to zero, especially as we were skint at the time?

No way would we pay £5m for anyone back then!

You are right. As I said, we'd paid Sunderland the £4m they'd paid us for him.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Why we had to sell off our top players. It was hardly as if we had to sell them to survive.

well either way you look at it , the club was paying wages it couldn't afford , for several years , under jones and Ridsdale

[Hilts]

That was the strategy, but to describe the wage bill as massive is inaccurate by Championship standards at the time. The wage bill that year was £16.7 million and the operating loss was under a million. The main problem was the club didn't have a rich backer and had no way to service its mounting debts.

Compare those figures to the recent Warnock promotion season, when the wage bill was more than £48 million and the operating loss was £34 million.

I may be wrong. But wasnt the loss that high as huge promotion bonuses were paid.?

[Hilts]

well either way you look at it , the club was paying wages it couldn't afford , for several years , under jones and Ridsdale

Yeah I bet Robbie Fowler Jimmy Floyd and Trevor Sinclair didnt come cheap.

Even got Bellamy , Ramsey on loan and still ultimately failure.

[the other bob wilson]

Wasn't it you who coined that phrase for that side - flat track bullies?

I can remember using it after Chopra scored four in that 6-1 win over Derby, but it was a phrase that had been around in cricket for a o long time before that. I first heard it used in relation to the batsman Graham Hick who had a fantastic record with Worcestershire in county cricket, but found the step up to test cricket very difficult- he barely ever came up with a score when the pressure was really on or the conditions were testing.

[LeningradCowboy]

I may be wrong. But wasnt the loss that high as huge promotion bonuses were paid.?

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-down-15944305

You're not wrong. We paid £23m in bonuses at the end of that season.

[Rjk]

I may be wrong. But wasnt the loss that high as huge promotion bonuses were paid.?

prior to the promotion bonuses the wage bill would have been about 30m , which was about the median level in the league

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I can remember using it after Chopra scored four in that 6-1 win over Derby, but it was a phrase that had been around in cricket for a o long time before that. I first heard it used in relation to the batsman Graham Hick who had a fantastic record with Worcestershire in county cricket, but found the step up to test cricket very difficult- he barely ever came up with a score when the pressure was really on or the conditions were testing.

It certainly has merits.

In the two seasons 2009/10 and 2010/11 we scored 4 or more goals on 11 occasions. In all of our Championship seasons since 2011 we've scored 4 or more goals on 10 occasions! Those sides knew how to steam roller the opposition.

On the other side of the coin, in 2009/10 we failed to score in 12 games, which is higher than our Championship average since promotion in 2002. We had the lowest number of games where we scored just 1 or 2 and would still be low even if you considered that we scored 4 or more more often. That 2009/10 season is ranked 5th best in terms of clean sheets but 5th worst for conceding 3 or more goals in a game. The figures are better for 2010/11.

In an attacking sense, those two seasons were pretty exciting, but for every yin there's a yang and we paid for it defensively. Both of our promotions were built on a solid defence. Teams that win automatic promotion don't usually have the defensive stats that we had in those seasons. Those that did, tended to need to add another 10-15 goals to their 'for' tally.

[The Lone Gunman]

It was still one of the highest wage bills in the division at the time.

Was it? The average wage bill for the Championship in 2009/10 was apparently £15 million. City's wage bill that year was £16.7 million - above the average for sure, but one of the highest in the division? I don't have the figures for every club, but Newcastle's wage bill was £47 million, Middlesbrough's was £31 million and West Brom's was £23 million.

[Rjk]

Was it? The average wage bill for the Championship in 2009/10 was apparently £15 million. City's wage bill that year was £16.7 million - above the average for sure, but one of the highest in the division? I don't have the figures for every club, but Newcastle's wage bill was £47 million, Middlesbrough's was £31 million and West Brom's was £23 million.

some of those would have included promotion bonuses though? which are typically a large proportion of the wage bill

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Was it? The average wage bill for the Championship in 2009/10 was apparently £15 million. City's wage bill that year was £16.7 million - above the average for sure, but one of the highest in the division? I don't have the figures for every club, but Newcastle's wage bill was £47 million, Middlesbrough's was £31 million and West Brom's was £23 million.

I recall someone at the time pointing out that ours was certainly in the top 6 wage budgets in the division.

[Rjk]

I recall someone at the time pointing out that ours was certainly in the top 6 wage budgets in the division.

yep that's probably about right, DJ didn't spend a huge amount in transfer fees as he preferred to use the budget on wages to attract players here. and the budget was heavily focused around the core first team, with fringe players on a lot less

[The Lone Gunman]

some of those would have included promotion bonuses though? which are typically a large proportion of the wage bill

I bow to your greater knowledge.

Middlesbrough finished 11th.

[Rjk]

I bow to your greater knowledge.

Middlesbrough finished 11th.

also Middlesbrough, Newcastle and west brom had all been relegated the season before, and would have had a parachute payment and had a squad full of premier League wages. seems as though West brom were the best prepared for relegation, Newcastle brute forced it and Middlesbrough were a total mess.

[The Lone Gunman]

I recall someone at the time pointing out that ours was certainly in the top 6 wage budgets in the division.

I don't recall that. However, as you've already noted, Ridsdale and Jones definitely devised a strategy based around paying above-average wages and paying either below-average fees or no fees at all. It would be almost impossible to calculate exactly how much each squad in the division cost their clubs in terms of fees and wages combined, but I have very little doubt that City were generally punching above their weight under the Ridsdale and Jones regime.

[Rjk]

I don't recall that. However, as you've already noted, Ridsdale and Jones definitely devised a strategy based around paying above-average wages and paying either below-average fees or no fees at all. It would be almost impossible to calculate exactly how much each squad in the division cost their clubs in terms of fees and wages combined, but I have very little doubt that City were generally punching above their weight under the Ridsdale and Jones regime.

absolutely, for most of their time we were operating out of ninian park with no parachute payments and average crowds around the low to mid teens of thousands, we would definitely have had a far smaller income than many of our rivals

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I don't recall that. However, as you've already noted, Ridsdale and Jones definitely devised a strategy based around paying above-average wages and paying either below-average fees or no fees at all. It would be almost impossible to calculate exactly how much each squad in the division cost their clubs in terms of fees and wages combined, but I have very little doubt that City were generally punching above their weight under the Ridsdale and Jones regime.

Which is what I said , in a nutshell , big wages above income and turnover , for several years under Ridsdale and jones

Thanks

[Eric the Half a Bee]

I don't recall that. However, as you've already noted, Ridsdale and Jones definitely devised a strategy based around paying above-average wages and paying either below-average fees or no fees at all. It would be almost impossible to calculate exactly how much each squad in the division cost their clubs in terms of fees and wages combined, but I have very little doubt that City were generally punching above their weight under the Ridsdale and Jones regime.

I definitely agree that we did punch above our weight, all things considered.We did keep increasing our debt, but that seems to be of less a concern in football nowadays. Certainly Ridsdale's contacts and footballing knowledge way exceeds that of the current board. Our transfer activities over the last 7 or 8 seasons have been far poorer.

[Hilts]

I definitely agree that we did punch above our weight, all things considered.We did keep increasing our debt, but that seems to be of less a concern in football nowadays. Certainly Ridsdale's contacts and footballing knowledge way exceeds that of the current board. Our transfer activities over the last 7 or 8 seasons have been far poorer.

Really.?

2 promotions says otherwise.