COVID - Something has to change

[Welshcake.]

They keep saying we are 5/6 weeks behind Spain, I see that cases are now going down there after peaking and deaths didn’t go up? They didn’t lock down did they?

They had full lockdown again didn't they?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Where's Total_ITK? I'm pretty sure he was posting about how he was witnessing Swedes not socially distancing during our lockdown. All we are getting in the UK is the media's spin on what's happening there (from both sides of the argument)- at least get an opinion from the horses mouth on this.

It will be illuminating to see whether the approach in Sweden reaps a longer benefit but as things stand in Scandanavia for every Dane, Finn and Norwegian that has died of or with coronavirus, 5, 9 and 12 Swedes died respectively.

[the other bob wilson]

No, mate... Where did you read that the "cases are going down there [Spain] and deaths didn't go up"? I'm not arguing that we may be "6 weeks behind" them, just that the cases are going down in Spain as all evidence points to the contrary.

Here's a link which shows that, although I would have thought scientists might well say they needed more evidence before declaring Spain was over the worst of this late summer/autumn outbreak, the number of daily new cases has dropped markedly in the last week to ten days.

It also shows that while new cases did climb dramatically for a while, they did not do so to anywhere near the extent talked about at the briefing yesterday - they plateaued at around 10,000 for three weeks before the dip started. As for deaths, they rose well above what had been the norm for a few months, but they.ve not reached anything like spring levels yet.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/spain/

[BLUEAWAY]

We can't carry on like this. We can't keep locking down individual towns or counties, in some vain attempt to stop this virus spreading. It's clearly not working, because as soon as one area comes out of lockdown, it starts up again - like everyone knew it would. We can't all go back to work, or out to eat, or to visit our favourite shopping centre, and not expect it to spread. We can't all go away on holiday (home or abroad), and not expect that someone will bring it back.

The problem here is that the government has painted itself into a corner, due to its previous actions. It's almost impossible now, for them to say "Okay, we might have got this wrong. Let's try something else". Because it might be time now to stop with all these lockdowns, and just let everyone get on with it. Protect the vulnerable (and properly, not like the previous care home fiasco), and let everyone else take their chances. It's beginning to look like Sweden had it right all along.

These viruses have been around before. Hong Kong flu, swine flu, chicken flu, etc etc. It's part of life, and we have to learn to live with them. So my advice to Boris would be that we need to change course. Before it really is too late.

Putting aside everything that the Government should be doing.

Every individual, irrespective of age, demographic and ethnicity needs to treat this more seriously and accept that they carry a responsibility to fight it.
Nobody is immune, everybody could be a spreader.
With the right attitude wearing a mask, maintaining a distance are not difficult to do. Observing and implementing rules on gatherings, travel may be upsetting for some but not as much as burying somebody.
I’m not advocating a total lockdown, but individual responsibility and therein lies the problem. There are just too many people who do not think it applies to them or feel that they can interpret it differently.
It’s not just the “young” who can be and have acted irresponsibly.

We all want to get back to attending City matches. It’s not going to happen soon nor should it or any other crowd event. It’s time to stop bleating about loss of privilege and to work to rebuild it. “We are in this together”

[cyril evans awaydays]

The govt. panicked, along with the rest. Don't go to work - we'll pay you instead, I mean , when you think of that it's totally and utterly crazy, the sort of thing a tinpot Central American state would do, not the 6th largest economy in the world.
We all remember seeing little Spanish children going into their local park to play after leaving their houses/flats for the 1st time in 4 months - think late July/early August. Spain enforced a prison-like lockdown, yet it didn't do much good - look at them now.
I'm approaching my 68th yr. I don't confess to any serious medical qualifications, but I've done business with - and met - hundreds and hundreds of people from all walks of life, and I can tell when people are 'winging it'. And believe me, these scientist are definitely winging it - they haven't go a clue..

I remember you taking a shot at Pearcey on reliance on scientific opinion

There's as much space as you need below to list your qualifications and expertise in these matters, and then give us your detailed explanation why you disagree with the most qualified people in this Country.

Then again you could just f*ck off and let the grown ups get on with it..

What happened to change your mind?

[Heisenberg]

It will be illuminating to see whether the approach in Sweden reaps a longer benefit but as things stand in Scandanavia for every Dane, Finn and Norwegian that has died of or with coronavirus, 5, 9 and 12 Swedes died respectively.

I understand that and I'm not saying that they've done well at all. I was pointing out that a couple of posters have said that Swedes were socially distancing better than us despite Total_ITK posting about how gobsmacked he was when he was witnessing barely any social distancing being implemented in whichever town/city he lives in.

The posts about Sweden being a larger country with a smaller population are factual, but the other stuff seems to be conjecture.

The figures don't lie, but we can't fully appreciate what the social protocols in Sweden are like unless we witness them. It's like someone constantly saying that the pubs are safe because they saw people socially distancing in them on TV, yet when you're in one, you can tell that it's a bit of a free-for-all.

[Heisenberg]

Here's a link which shows that, although I would have thought scientists might well say they needed more evidence before declaring Spain was over the worst of this late summer/autumn outbreak, the number of daily new cases has dropped markedly in the last week to ten days.

It also shows that while new cases did climb dramatically for a while, they did not do so to anywhere near the extent talked about at the briefing yesterday - they plateaued at around 10,000 for three weeks before the dip started. As for deaths, they rose well above what had been the norm for a few months, but they.ve not reached anything like spring levels yet.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/spain/

Apologies to goats then

[Heisenberg]

I remember you taking a shot at Pearcey on reliance on scientific opinion



What happened to change your mind?

Oof!

And I say that as someone with a "cool dude avatar".

[Dorcus]

Putting aside everything that the Government should be doing.

Every individual, irrespective of age, demographic and ethnicity needs to treat this more seriously and accept that they carry a responsibility to fight it.
Nobody is immune, everybody could be a spreader.
With the right attitude wearing a mask, maintaining a distance are not difficult to do. Observing and implementing rules on gatherings, travel may be upsetting for some but not as much as burying somebody.
I’m not advocating a total lockdown, but individual responsibility and therein lies the problem. There are just too many people who do not think it applies to them or feel that they can interpret it differently.
It’s not just the “young” who can be and have acted irresponsibly.

We all want to get back to attending City matches. It’s not going to happen soon nor should it or any other crowd event. It’s time to stop bleating about loss of privilege and to work to rebuild it. “We are in this together”

Most sensible post yet. I must admit amazement at how people bleat on about the very least of impositions yet have a blithe acceptance of others losing their lives. Whatever happened to the good old British Blitz spirit?

[Dorcus]

Oof!

And I say that as someone with a "cool dude avatar".

He's 68, has met hundreds of people and has no medical qualifications; reasons enough for us to trust him over the Government's top scientific advisors I'd say.

[Wales-Bales]

Data in Sweden is really worth watching. pic.twitter.com/guob7cZ5k8

— Latika M Bourke (@latikambourke) September 22, 2020

[goats]

Here's a link which shows that, although I would have thought scientists might well say they needed more evidence before declaring Spain was over the worst of this late summer/autumn outbreak, the number of daily new cases has dropped markedly in the last week to ten days.

It also shows that while new cases did climb dramatically for a while, they did not do so to anywhere near the extent talked about at the briefing yesterday - they plateaued at around 10,000 for three weeks before the dip started. As for deaths, they rose well above what had been the norm for a few months, but they.ve not reached anything like spring levels yet.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/spain/

Good news there, hope.....

[goats]

Apologies to goats then

Never thought I’d see the day......

I freely admit I sometimes post inaccurate stuff or things I haven’t processed correctly, I’m happy to be corrected, it happens a lot.....

[Heisenberg]

Never thought I’d see the day......

I freely admit I sometimes post inaccurate stuff or things I haven’t processed correctly, I’m happy to be corrected, it happens a lot.....

I'll always put my hands up if I have got something wrong. I'd rather admit that I'd made a simple mistake than spend pages on here arguing the toss like some posters do.

I must have read the reports wrong, my fault entirely mate

[Dorcus]

I'll always put my hands up if I have got something wrong. I'd rather admit that I'd made a simple mistake than spend pages on here arguing the toss like some posters do.

I must have read the reports wrong, my fault entirely mate

Would you mind if I congratulate you both for two very humble, generous and reasoned responses. More of this is to be welcomed.

[Heisenberg]

Would you mind if I congratulate you both for two very humble, generous and reasoned responses. More of this is to be welcomed.

Piss off Dork face!

[Dorcus]

Piss off Dork face!

Oh cheers Heis lol

[Rjk]

Piss off Dork face!

That cool dude profile picture has gone to your head

[Heisenberg]

Oh cheers Heis lol

[Heisenberg]

That cool dude profile picture has gone to your head

It still tickles me that he said it.

[Wales-Bales]

We've reached a perilous turning point.​

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Good news there, hope.....

My boss is currently working from Spain and couldn’t believe the amount of people wearing masks.

Outdoors, if alone, on the beach. Everyone has one on all the time and you get challenged if you don’t.

I don’t believe it’s compulsory either just an attitude shift.

[Croesy Blue]

My boss is currently working from Spain and couldn’t believe the amount of people wearing masks.

Outdoors, if alone, on the beach. Everyone has one on all the time and you get challenged if you don’t.

I don’t believe it’s compulsory either just an attitude shift.

It is compulsory there since the numbers jumped up. I was there recently and everyone had them on though.

[tforturton]

The point is, unless we're all prepared to totally isolate from each other, maybe in little plastic boxes (one each), for at least two weeks, then these lockdowns are a waste of time. They are achieving nothing, except postpone things for a while. As soon as people start coming back outside, off it goes again. The only way ahead (without a vaccine) is to protect the vulnerable as best we can, and the rest of us just get on with things.

You can't send kids to school, students to university, workers to offices and factories, open shops and cafes...and not expect the virus to spread. It's madness. Everything we do is spreading the virus. But for the vast majority of us, it doesn't matter. But when you look at the steps we're taking, you'd think we were dealing with the bubonic plague, that might wipe us all out.

This country is on the verge of collapse, and we will be paying for this for a generation or more. Jobs are disappearing, businesses closing down, futures being demolished. Is it really worth it? And don't say "The alternative is that we all die" because we won't!

[blue matt]

The point is, unless we're all prepared to totally isolate from each other, maybe in little plastic boxes (one each), for at least two weeks, then these lockdowns are a waste of time. They are achieving nothing, except postpone things for a while. As soon as people start coming back outside, off it goes again. The only way ahead (without a vaccine) is to protect the vulnerable as best we can, and the rest of us just get on with things.

You can't send kids to school, students to university, workers to offices and factories, open shops and cafes...and not expect the virus to spread. It's madness. Everything we do is spreading the virus. But for the vast majority of us, it doesn't matter. But when you look at the steps we're taking, you'd think we were dealing with the bubonic plague, that might wipe us all out.

This country is on the verge of collapse, and we will be paying for this for a generation or more. Jobs are disappearing, businesses closing down, futures being demolished. Is it really worth it? And don't say "The alternative is that we all die" because we won't!

the plan certainly looks like stumble along till 1/2 term and have 2 weeks lockdown for 1/2 term, that'll buy some time, same again over christmas , not sure its sustainable to have 2 weeks lockdown every 6 weeks though, maybe it'll by us some more time

Its not going to work for the lower paid unless the government helps them out