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Thread: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

  1. #76

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by MOZZER2 View Post
    haven't followed this story too much but seeing the so called left wing mob causing trouble at the so called silent vigil of Sarah Everard in Clapham common tonight on social media whats all that about ?
    Police prevented a peaceful vigil, people gathered peacefully anyway and police countered with heavy handed tactics that really weren't necessary. It was pointed out that Met police are responsibility of Cressinda Dick and Sadiq Khan; it was pointed out that Tory government wants to bring in more extreme laws that make basically ever protest, peaceful or otherwise, illegal; it was pointed out the police had gathered to clap for carers earlier in the year themselves (including Cressinda Dick) breaking lockdown rules.

    At same time some more extreme groups - and people not being described as extreme - made statements at the vigil and in describing the vigil which could have put trial at risk. Most of the online statements were then edited when it was brought to their attention.

    No left-wing mob. Several vigils around UK without such attention because policed more appropriately. Lot's of noise today about the police with some trying to draw attention back to why there was a vigil in the first place and the discourse that had followed.

  2. #77

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    you're asking to undo millions of years of evolution. Men are filled with testosterone, there is a reason for that.
    I assume that’s a turn of phrase as I think it was clear that I wasn’t asking that.

  3. #78

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    when people claim that its a male problem, and if I don't accept that then i'm part of the problem, I can't see how that isn't saying the issue is all men.


    what is this privilege you speak of?

    is it intimidating and degrading? Are you speaking for all women here or only the women who dislike it. There are plenty of women who like the attention and don't see it as intimidating and degrading. But we're not allowed to consider them because that doesn't suit the narrative.

    you're making this about men v women and it should be about stopping violence in general. Are men more inclined to be violent - I don't think they are. I think its a matter of biology that men are stronger and fitter in general so in any given situation, the man is going to be more dominant and hold the upper hand. So it should come as no surprise that typically its more likely than not that violence between the sexes is more inclined to be male driven. But as a man, I'm not going to be held accountable for the actions of someone else, I can only call it out when I see it.
    In the context of the debate, the privilege I have is that I am less likely to be sexually assaulted or harassed because I am a man. There has been a recent statistic that 97% of women aged 18-24 have been sexually harassed or abused. It is safer for me to be out at night. If you cannot see the male privilege we have, you are either naive or a dickhead who think the world revolves around you.

    And I cannot speak for women in general but my friends hate being cat called. It is degrading and it is misogynistic. I can’t ****ing believe I am having with debate with someone

  4. #79

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by adz-a32 View Post
    In the context of the debate, the privilege I have is that I am less likely to be sexually assaulted or harassed because I am a man. There has been a recent statistic that 97% of women aged 18-24 have been sexually harassed or abused.
    Source for this? Would be interested to see the methodology.

  5. #80

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Source for this? Would be interested to see the methodology.
    https://www.openaccessgovernment.org...the-uk/105940/

  6. #81

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Source for this? Would be interested to see the methodology.
    https://www.unwomenuk.org/safe-spaces-now

  7. #82

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    It is a little bit vague as to where the bar is set but this interested me:

    Researchers further reveal that people who were groped, followed and pressured into sexual activity did not find their experience to be “serious enough” to report.
    The other two (groped and pressured into sexual activity) are a bit ambiguous but the fact that women who are being followed don't feel comfortable reporting that to police is shocking.

  8. #83
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by adz-a32 View Post
    In the context of the debate, the privilege I have is that I am less likely to be sexually assaulted or harassed because I am a man.
    so its a privilege not to be assaulted. got it. I'd say it was a human fundamental right but there we are.

    Quote Originally Posted by adz-a32 View Post
    There has been a recent statistic that 97% of women aged 18-24 have been sexually harassed or abused. It is safer for me to be out at night. If you cannot see the male privilege we have, you are either naive or a dickhead who think the world revolves around you.
    your ad hominem attacks display a real level of maturity. Just because an individual has a difference of opinion to you does not make them a dickhead.

    and its hardly safer for men to be out at night. Men are more likely to be assaulted, the victims of knife and other violent crimes and are more likely to be murdered. That doesn't suit the narrative though.

    Quote Originally Posted by adz-a32 View Post
    And I cannot speak for women in general but my friends hate being cat called. It is degrading and it is misogynistic. I can’t ****ing believe I am having with debate with someone
    just because your friends dislike being catcalled does not mean all women do. As I have said some women enjoy the attention. you seem to live in this bubble where you think the world is homogenous and everyone lives according to the experiences you and your friends share. I'd suggest you learn to open your horizons and see that the world extends beyond your own experiences. This isn't a perfect world, but its far from as black and white as you are making.

  9. #84
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by adz-a32 View Post
    what does sexual harassment constitute in this context? Because if 97% of women are experiencing attempted rape in a public place, that is a very different situation that needs addressing from 97% of women experiencing being whistled at. The article provides no context to what the experiences are.

    edit: my bad, page 13 of the report that is linked provides some context.

  10. #85

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Was talking to my mum this morning and the topic came up. She is a normal person and by no means some twisted twitter extremist and her view was that it would be good for young men to be encouraged to cross the street if they are walking at a quicker pace behind a woman, then crossing back over once you have passed her.

    Now, this sounds absolutely ridiculous to me, does anybody agree with this advice?

  11. #86

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Anecdotal I know but I’d say every woman I know has at the very least been grabbed in a club. And that’s on top of people being weirdos on the tube or other things like that.

    And completely ignoring how much more likely a woman is to suffer from domestic abuse.

    Maybe it’s just me but I’ve never felt uncomfortable walking home at 4am but every girl I know would at least get a taxi and ever then feel uncomfortable.

    Surely people aren’t debating that something should be done to make this better.

    I think equating it to men being assaulted is very disingenuous too, no one is saying something should be done about that but it’s definitely a separate issue.

    No one is saying “all men” are bad either, coming back with “I’m not like this” and “not all men are like this” is missing the point completely.

  12. #87

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Was talking to my mum this morning and the topic came up. She is a normal person and by no means some twisted twitter extremist and her view was that it would be good for young men to be encouraged to cross the street if they are walking at a quicker pace behind a woman, then crossing back over once you have passed her.

    Now, this sounds absolutely ridiculous to me, does anybody agree with this advice?
    I think there are much less extreme things you can do to make yourself not seem like a threat.

    But I can also understand a women feeling uncomfortable with someone walking closely behind them, that can be avoided just with common sense can’t it.

  13. #88
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Was talking to my mum this morning and the topic came up. She is a normal person and by no means some twisted twitter extremist and her view was that it would be good for young men to be encouraged to cross the street if they are walking at a quicker pace behind a woman, then crossing back over once you have passed her.

    Now, this sounds absolutely ridiculous to me, does anybody agree with this advice?
    this is something I, and a lot of other men, already do. you end up walking at a comically fast pace to get passed the woman.

  14. #89

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    Source for this? Would be interested to see the methodology.
    Can't find any source material though

  15. #90
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I think equating it to men being assaulted is very disingenuous too, no one is saying something should be done about that but it’s definitely a separate issue.
    you've missed the point. Some women are whipping up hysteria saying they don't feel safe outside, whereas despite the statistics showing men are more likely to be a victim, men don't feel unsafe at all.

    You'd be quite happy walking home from town on your own, whereas a woman would not. This goes against logic when you take on board you're more likely to be the victim of an assault than any woman. Why is that? Its a serious question

  16. #91

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Anecdotal I know but I’d say every woman I know has at the very least been grabbed in a club. And that’s on top of people being weirdos on the tube or other things like that.

    And completely ignoring how much more likely a woman is to suffer from domestic abuse.

    Maybe it’s just me but I’ve never felt uncomfortable walking home at 4am but every girl I know would at least get a taxi and ever then feel uncomfortable.

    Surely people aren’t debating that something should be done to make this better.

    I think equating it to men being assaulted is very disingenuous too, no one is saying something should be done about that but it’s definitely a separate issue.

    No one is saying “all men” are bad either, coming back with “I’m not like this” and “not all men are like this” is missing the point completely.
    The question is what do you change, and what unintended consequences do you incur from making that change.

    This isn't a debate right now because everybody is just jerking each other off for being nice guys but nobody is really saying what they want to happen.

  17. #92

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Is that just total assaults that happen though? Or is it Im more likely to be attacked walking home?

    I’d say in a fight in a pub men are more likely to be involved in assaults, or at events. And something does need to be done about that.

    But is it actually just as likely for me to be assaulted when I’m out walking or when I’m walking home after a night out? Or when I’m sitting on public transport?

    I’d say it’s 2 separate issues and conflating them probably doesn’t help either case.

  18. #93
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    Is that just total assaults that happen though? Or is it Im more likely to be attacked walking home?

    I’d say in a fight in a pub men are more likely to be involved in assaults, or at events. And something does need to be done about that.

    But is it actually just as likely for me to be assaulted when I’m out walking or when I’m walking home after a night out? Or when I’m sitting on public transport?

    I’d say it’s 2 separate issues and conflating them probably doesn’t help either case.
    I have no idea, I've not seen the stats broken down by where the assaults occurred, so its a valid point.

  19. #94

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    The question is what do you change, and what unintended consequences do you incur from making that change.

    This isn't a debate right now because everybody is just jerking each other off for being nice guys but nobody is really saying what they want to happen.
    I think everyone being more aware of their behaviour and the behaviour of others around them is a start.

    It doesn’t remove the issue and there are other things that are needed to be done but just being conscious of how other people might feel is an easy way to start.

    I remember being told at school when we were 12 or 13 how old people might be intimidated by us even if we weren’t a threat, I think just being conscious of stuff like that can go a long way to helping.

  20. #95

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    this is something I, and a lot of other men, already do. you end up walking at a comically fast pace to get passed the woman.
    It has never crossed my mind that a woman might think I am going to rape her just because I am occupying the same stretch of pavement, how the feck did we end up here? It's really sad.

  21. #96

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
    I have no idea, I've not seen the stats broken down by where the assaults occurred, so its a valid point.
    It’s just a complete guess on my part but I’ve been had my nose broken twice by drunk duck heads in a bar for no reason so I’d say that is more likely to be the type of assault men are caught up in. I’m not downplaying it, it’s bad but it’s a different ball game to being grabbed by someone on your walk home.

    Plus being a big bloke it’s much easier to think you at least stand a chance of getting out of it in a better shape.

  22. #97

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I think everyone being more aware of their behaviour and the behaviour of others around them is a start.

    It doesn’t remove the issue and there are other things that are needed to be done but just being conscious of how other people might feel is an easy way to start.

    I remember being told at school when we were 12 or 13 how old people might be intimidated by us even if we weren’t a threat, I think just being conscious of stuff like that can go a long way to helping.
    I generally don't really see anything I could change, I am pretty quiet (it's always the quiet ones!), keep myself to myself and have on occasions tried to intervene if I have seen anything bad going on. One instance that springs to mind was witnessing a couple in quite a heated physical encounter late at night and then getting screamed at to feck off by the women when I crossed the street to ask if everybody was alright. It is quite hard to get this shit right in reality.

  23. #98
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    I think everyone being more aware of their behaviour and the behaviour of others around them is a start.

    It doesn’t remove the issue and there are other things that are needed to be done but just being conscious of how other people might feel is an easy way to start.

    I remember being told at school when we were 12 or 13 how old people might be intimidated by us even if we weren’t a threat, I think just being conscious of stuff like that can go a long way to helping.
    I tell you what doesn't help....the outpouring of criticism of #notallmen or whatever it was. There was a clear trend of men pointing out that they would not behave this way and they wouldn't treat women in this way yet despite this it was immediately turned around as some sort of negative.

    certain women continually saying the problem is men, when what they mean is some men. They call for education of men but you are I never needed educating yet we know how to behave.

    Consequently the approach adopted by these women means that some men entrench because they want nothing to do with being associated with this copper and others like him. Then this starts a whole different debate of male v female with some then arguing you're part of the problem if you don't accept their opinion. We've seen it in this thread.

    I don't know any male who thinks its acceptable for women to be subject to sexual harassment, or to feel threatened just by being out at night. In my opinion it would help the situation immensely if women knew that the vast majority of men aren't a threat, and when some men publicly advertise this fact, it should be welcomed not criticised.

  24. #99
    Feedback
    Guest

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Croesy Blue View Post
    It’s just a complete guess on my part but I’ve been had my nose broken twice by drunk duck heads in a bar for no reason so I’d say that is more likely to be the type of assault men are caught up in. I’m not downplaying it, it’s bad but it’s a different ball game to being grabbed by someone on your walk home.

    Plus being a big bloke it’s much easier to think you at least stand a chance of getting out of it in a better shape.
    therein lies the rub. most men are confident enough to believe they can at least have a chance because they'll be equivalent size, weight and reach as their assailant. Its why we have divisions in boxing. a 5ft 4 women weighing 8 stone hasn't got much chance against a 14 stone 6 footer.

    This is why men don't feel scared of venturing outside and don't really give it a second thought.

  25. #100

    Re: 6PM Curfew - for Men.?

    That’s the whole point isn’t it I think, it isn’t really as much of a worry for us as it is to them.

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