Duke of Edinburgh dies

[Citizen's Nephew]

Exactly.

One poster in this thread wrote about a semi-deified group of people who are put on a pedestal merely due to their being born in the right bed. I would ask anyone who has posted in this thread to search their hearts and ask themselves would they have preferred to have been born into that group of semi-deified people (i.e. the royal family in this case with all their wealth and status) rather than the family in which they find themselves? I for one am eternally grateful that I was not! Likewise I am eternally grateful that I was not born into abject poverty like a child in Yemen.

I understand your sentiments but I think it's disingenuous to suggest that it's not possible to be humanitarian towards members of the Royal Family and loathe everything they represent. Love thy enemy and all that. To be fair, I know plenty of people who have been born into awful family lives and would swap in a heartbeat with any of them. And, you don't have to go to Yemen to find a child living in poverty. There are plenty close to home.

[delmbox]

Time to reply.

Why that dig? Well you seem to have forgotten your somewhat dismissive reply to one of my posts on this thread the other day as follows

"What a lot time taken up to say nothing really"

Now the post you were responding to was nothing exceptional but it did make a couple of valid points including correcting what I presumed was an accidental misinterpretation of something i said in an earlier post ( we've all done that) so when you just dismissed it out of had I was a bit miffed.

So I responded as follows

"I thought that despite our differences politically there was mutual respect between us. I certainly respect your views which is why i took the trouble to write a well thought out reply in response to you rather than dash out an angry response which was my first instinct

Perhaps I was wrong to dare to say that the great TOBW had misinterpreted something I said. That can't be true can it???"

You didn't respond to this so I would guess you did not see it.

And now you accuse me of being a "forelock tugger", and that thankfully you do not share my opinions.

I've checked back in this thread for my alleged "forelock tuggung". I found that I agreed that the BBC taking up both BB1 and BBC2 was excessive. I also pointed out that I have never been a great fan of Prince Philip.

I will qualify that latter sentence by saying that I have done a lot of reading about him to confirm my previous fairly negative opinion of him and will say that I was surprised how much my opinion of him improved. I agree that he could be rude, a bit arrogant and because of this made some unfortunate gaffes ( although I suspect some were quite deliberate).

But he was also highly intelligent, good to his staff ( I have seen a few sources that say his office had a very low turnover of staff because he treated them so well.)

His work for the award scheme in his name is well known as of course is his work for the WWF ( I Know Sludge sneers at this but David Attenbrough has praised him for his work in the area and I know who I would believe!!). But apart from this I have also seem many reports of the work he did for the countless charities he was patron of

However I am not ( despite what you seem to have picked up from somewhere???) an unconditional monarchist. Even though Philip modernised them, they may still need to take a hard look at themselves when the Queen passes away. Not a republic in my view but certainly a streamlining - do they really need so many houses????

Finally on your point about the audience for the funeral. You did not include Youtube (over 8 million views at the last count] IPlayer and ITV Hub plus the various other showings during the evening ( I was going to watch it on one these but changed my mind and saw it live, mainly because I forgot to turn over!)

That adds another perspective as to how many saw it.

I think you need to relax and not take this board so seriously

[Gofer Blue]

Surely it's yet another reason in abandoning a system if the public is infantilised on the one hand and those bowed down to are unhappy with their gilded cage on the other hand, a dehumanising situation for both parties perhaps.
Other royal families in Europe took a step down from such semi-deification and retained a great deal of wealth so it's not as if they have no choice whatsoever.
Unilaterally bowing to another human being or referring to them as 'Your Highness' is absurdly medieval in my opinion.

I met the queen when the company I was with at the time won the Queen's Award to Industry and myself and two colleagues went to Buckingham Palace to collect the award. As a Christian I will not bow to another human being so I simply shook hands with the queen and it was fine (by me anyway!). I can confirm that the Duke could be a grumpy old codger as he asked me to repeat the name of our company as he didn't hear the announcer. When I gave it to him he replied in a rather gruff manner: "Never heard of them"!

[Gofer Blue]

I understand your sentiments but I think it's disingenuous to suggest that it's not possible to be humanitarian towards members of the Royal Family and loathe everything they represent. Love thy enemy and all that. To be fair, I know plenty of people who have been born into awful family lives and would swap in a heartbeat with any of them. And, you don't have to go to Yemen to find a child living in poverty. There are plenty close to home.

I do wonder about that, really?

BTW IMO there is no one "close to home" or even living anywhere in the UK who has any experience of living in abject poverty.

[Elwood Blues]

I think you need to relax and not take this board so seriously

I am perfectly relaxed thank you.


but I just felt like giving a thorough response

After all I did take a dig at Bob and he deserve to have an explanation as why

And I need to clarify my views which seem to have been misunderstood by some.

That is all

[Citizen's Nephew]

I do wonder about that, really?

BTW IMO there is no one "close to home" or even living anywhere in the UK who has any experience of living in abject poverty.

Please, let's not do this - it's too depressing. My wife's background in psychiatric and social services means I've got to know of the most horrendous families and the lives of children and adolescents growing up in sexually and physically abusive homes. The home is still one of the unsafest places when it comes to child or domestic abuse. At least one child is killed a week in the UK

And the way the term abject poverty is used feels uncomfortably like referring to the deserving and undeserving poor.

Yes, child poverty is close to home - in Wales and even parts of Cardiff. Wales has the worst child poverty in UK.

Look, I just wanted to point out that there are other sides to all of this disproportionate wealth and privilege and that is irrefutable.

So, with respect, I encourage you to find out more about the issues I'm concerned with and I'll read a bit more about HRH Prince Phillip et al. You can't get fairer than that.

[the other bob wilson]

I'm not entirely surev# that you meant to say those words, but as you are by your own admission far more intelligent than others must I assume that you did?

If anything, I'm guilty of putting too many commas in when I write things, but, this time, there was one too few, There should have been one after the word "certain" - it still doesn't read great, but it should show that I'm not saying I'm more intelligent than other posters or that those who disagree with me are stupid. I can do, and quite enjoy doing, deliberately condescending, but I don't think I've ever said I'm the most intelligent poster on here (Lord help us if I was!) and I can ever remember calling people stupid.

[the other bob wilson]

Time to reply.

Why that dig? Well you seem to have forgotten your somewhat dismissive reply to one of my posts on this thread the other day as follows

"What a lot time taken up to say nothing really"

Now the post you were responding to was nothing exceptional but it did make a couple of valid points including correcting what I presumed was an accidental misinterpretation of something i said in an earlier post ( we've all done that) so when you just dismissed it out of had I was a bit miffed.

So I responded as follows

"I thought that despite our differences politically there was mutual respect between us. I certainly respect your views which is why i took the trouble to write a well thought out reply in response to you rather than dash out an angry response which was my first instinct

Perhaps I was wrong to dare to say that the great TOBW had misinterpreted something I said. That can't be true can it???"

You didn't respond to this so I would guess you did not see it.

And now you accuse me of being a "forelock tugger", and that thankfully you do not share my opinions.

I've checked back in this thread for my alleged "forelock tuggung". I found that I agreed that the BBC taking up both BB1 and BBC2 was excessive. I also pointed out that I have never been a great fan of Prince Philip.

I will qualify that latter sentence by saying that I have done a lot of reading about him to confirm my previous fairly negative opinion of him and will say that I was surprised how much my opinion of him improved. I agree that he could be rude, a bit arrogant and because of this made some unfortunate gaffes ( although I suspect some were quite deliberate).

But he was also highly intelligent, good to his staff ( I have seen a few sources that say his office had a very low turnover of staff because he treated them so well.)

His work for the award scheme in his name is well known as of course is his work for the WWF ( I Know Sludge sneers at this but David Attenbrough has praised him for his work in the area and I know who I would believe!!). But apart from this I have also seem many reports of the work he did for the countless charities he was patron of

However I am not ( despite what you seem to have picked up from somewhere???) an unconditional monarchist. Even though Philip modernised them, they may still need to take a hard look at themselves when the Queen passes away. Not a republic in my view but certainly a streamlining - do they really need so many houses????

Finally on your point about the audience for the funeral. You did not include Youtube (over 8 million views at the last count] IPlayer and ITV Hub plus the various other showings during the evening ( I was going to watch it on one these but changed my mind and saw it live, mainly because I forgot to turn over!)

That adds another perspective as to how many saw it.

Going back to my post about the miracle of Royals knowing how to cook things on a barbecue and the lunacy of people complaining about a complaints procedure because it was too easy, it was posted as a joke and so I was taken aback, not annoyed, by your first reply because you had misjudged my motive in posting it.

My first reply was based on my assumption that you seemed to want to argue with what I said just for the sake of it, but it seems I was wrong in that judgement, you were being serious. I apologise for my last sentence, but I still was a bit gobsmacked at your willingness to continue things when I was struggling to see what the "argument" was supposed to be about - the message that, apparently, got you upset, was meant to reflect my incredulity as much as anything.

The way you argue in favour of Prince Philip suggests you think that I dislike him. I can understand that to a degree, but I don't think you'll find anything in this thread, or others, from me to that effect. I'm anti Royalists, but not because I hate them as individuals (well, apart from Prince Andrew who I've never liked), it's just that they don't interest me in the slightest as people.

I actually think that, if we have to have a monarch, then the Queen has been a good one, but to illustrate my level of disinterest in them, I don't know if Andrew and Anne have remarried, I don't know which one is which with William and Harry, I have no clue as to the name of any of the Queen's other grandchildren apart from Zara Phillips who, i believe once won Sports Personality of the Year for some reason.

As for your "forelock tugging", I can only go by what you write on here and in the last day in your efforts to defend the principle of Royalty, you've denounced Republicanism and appeared to say that you're in favour of the class system. Also, in your seeming determination to portray the population of this country as staunch Royalists, you've now gone to what seems to me to be extreme lengths of quoting You Tube watches back at me. I agree that 8 million extra UK watchers who have looked at the video on You Tube because they missed the funeral live for whatever reason would be impressive, but we both know it's not that don't we. Unless I'm very much mistaken that 8 million is a worldwide figure and I daresay it includes a fair proportion of people who watched the whole thing live on telly as well - the same applies to viewings on things like IPlayer and the ITV Hub.

Based on the last paragraph, I think "forelock tugging" is justified.

[xsnaggle]

If anything, I'm guilty of putting too many commas in when I write things, but, this time, there was one too few, There should have been one after the word "certain" - it still doesn't read great, but it should show that I'm not saying I'm more intelligent than other posters or that those who disagree with me are stupid. I can do, and quite enjoy doing, deliberately condescending, but I don't think I've ever said I'm the most intelligent poster on here (Lord help us if I was!) and I can ever remember calling people stupid.

There you go - - you just did it again!

[Gofer Blue]

Please, let's not do this - it's too depressing. My wife's background in psychiatric and social services means I've got to know of the most horrendous families and the lives of children and adolescents growing up in sexually and physically abusive homes. The home is still one of the unsafest places when it comes to child or domestic abuse. At least one child is killed a week in the UK

And the way the term abject poverty is used feels uncomfortably like referring to the deserving and undeserving poor.

Yes, child poverty is close to home - in Wales and even parts of Cardiff. Wales has the worst child poverty in UK.

Look, I just wanted to point out that there are other sides to all of this disproportionate wealth and privilege and that is irrefutable.

So, with respect, I encourage you to find out more about the issues I'm concerned with and I'll read a bit more about HRH Prince Phillip et al. You can't get fairer than that.

I hope I would never be found guilty of using the term deserving poor! I have direct experience of what I would describe as abject poverty from times spent in Uganda, Malawi and (briefly) in India and also poverty in the UK as a volunteer in a food bank but I agree, let's leave it there, otherwise this could descend into a Dutch auction style discussion.

[delmbox]

I am perfectly relaxed thank you.


but I just felt like giving a thorough response

After all I did take a dig at Bob and he deserve to have an explanation as why

And I need to clarify my views which seem to have been misunderstood by some.

That is all

Ok well fair enough, I take it back

[Elwood Blues]

Ok well fair enough, I take it back

Thank you dear boy

Oh by the way they are taking the straight jacket off later

[xsnaggle]

Thank you dear boy

Oh by the way they are taking the straight jacket off later

They're only telling you that to make you calm down!!

[Citizen's Nephew]

I hope I would never be found guilty of using the term deserving poor! I have direct experience of what I would describe as abject poverty from times spent in Uganda, Malawi and (briefly) in India and also poverty in the UK as a volunteer in a food bank but I agree, let's leave it there, otherwise this could descend into a Dutch auction style discussion.

I'm pretty sure we're on the same page and hat's off to the Food Bank volunteering

[Citizen's Nephew]

They're only telling you that to make you calm down!!

They're sneaky b***ers. I've been caught out with that one too!

[Elwood Blues]

They're sneaky b***ers. I've been caught out with that one too!

They won't give me my uniform back either.

I keep telling them "How can I fight Wellington without my proper uniform"

Peasants!

[xsnaggle]

Please, let's not do this - it's too depressing. My wife's background in psychiatric and social services means I've got to know of the most horrendous families and the lives of children and adolescents growing up in sexually and physically abusive homes. The home is still one of the unsafest places when it comes to child or domestic abuse. At least one child is killed a week in the UK

And the way the term abject poverty is used feels uncomfortably like referring to the deserving and undeserving poor.

Yes, child poverty is close to home - in Wales and even parts of Cardiff. Wales has the worst child poverty in UK.

Look, I just wanted to point out that there are other sides to all of this disproportionate wealth and privilege and that is irrefutable.

So, with respect, I encourage you to find out more about the issues I'm concerned with and I'll read a bit more about HRH Prince Phillip et al. You can't get fairer than that.

Trust me Wales does not have the worst child or family poverty in the UK, nor has it had in the last 50 years. I have seen families of 8 living in a 2 up 2 down with no bathroom ,a toilet in the yard and no furniture except in the so called sitting room. sleeping on matresses on the floor and taking it in turns to sleep because there are not enough matresses. Families that didn't bath from one month's end to the next, kids and adults with ringworm and scurvy, no food in the house, never saw fruit from one week to the next.
A 6 yr old boy walking around the town in the pouring rain at 3 AM because "It's not my turn to sleep.
I get annoyed sometimes when I think of what I've seen in this country and hear people shouting about poverty. I realise it is hard for them but they are luckier than they will ever know.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Trust me Wales does not have the worst child or family poverty in the UK, nor has it had in the last 50 years. I have seen families of 8 living in a 2 up 2 down with no bathroom ,a toilet in the yard and no furniture except in the so called sitting room. sleeping on matresses on the floor and taking it in turns to sleep because there are not enough matresses. Families that didn't bath from one month's end to the next, kids and adults with ringworm and scurvy, no food in the house, never saw fruit from one week to the next.
A 6 yr old boy walking around the town in the pouring rain at 3 AM because "It's not my turn to sleep.
I get annoyed sometimes when I think of what I've seen in this country and hear people shouting about poverty. I realise it is hard for them but they are luckier than they will ever know.

Please don't shoot the messenger - I'm only going on what I've seen reported and I totally get where you're coming from. I would say this though, you acknowledge that you realise it's hard for them and you're right, they're luckier than the examples you've cited, but for them, it's true of today and life is different, the demands are different.

Anyway, I don't want to get into this sh*t because as I mentioned in an earlier post it's too depressing. I'm trying to build bridges year and winging it!

I just want everyone on this thread to have a virtual group hug!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Trust me Wales does not have the worst child or family poverty in the UK, nor has it had in the last 50 years. I have seen families of 8 living in a 2 up 2 down with no bathroom ,a toilet in the yard and no furniture except in the so called sitting room. sleeping on matresses on the floor and taking it in turns to sleep because there are not enough matresses. Families that didn't bath from one month's end to the next, kids and adults with ringworm and scurvy, no food in the house, never saw fruit from one week to the next.
A 6 yr old boy walking around the town in the pouring rain at 3 AM because "It's not my turn to sleep.
I get annoyed sometimes when I think of what I've seen in this country and hear people shouting about poverty. I realise it is hard for them but they are luckier than they will ever know.

https://www.poverty.ac.uk/report-wal...ild-poverty-uk

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Please don't shoot the messenger - I'm only going on what I've seen reported and I totally get where you're coming from. I would say this though, you acknowledge that you realise it's hard for them and you're right, they're luckier than the examples you've cited, but for them, it's true of today and life is different, the demands are different.

Anyway, I don't want to get into this sh*t because as I mentioned in an earlier post it's too depressing. I'm trying to build bridges year and winging it!

I just want everyone on this thread to have a virtual group hug!

the messenger was correct

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Trust me Wales does not have the worst child or family poverty in the UK, nor has it had in the last 50 years. I have seen families of 8 living in a 2 up 2 down with no bathroom ,a toilet in the yard and no furniture except in the so called sitting room. sleeping on matresses on the floor and taking it in turns to sleep because there are not enough matresses. Families that didn't bath from one month's end to the next, kids and adults with ringworm and scurvy, no food in the house, never saw fruit from one week to the next.
A 6 yr old boy walking around the town in the pouring rain at 3 AM because "It's not my turn to sleep.
I get annoyed sometimes when I think of what I've seen in this country and hear people shouting about poverty. I realise it is hard for them but they are luckier than they will ever know.

Trust me , it does

[Gofer Blue]

Trust me Wales does not have the worst child or family poverty in the UK, nor has it had in the last 50 years. I have seen families of 8 living in a 2 up 2 down with no bathroom ,a toilet in the yard and no furniture except in the so called sitting room. sleeping on matresses on the floor and taking it in turns to sleep because there are not enough matresses. Families that didn't bath from one month's end to the next, kids and adults with ringworm and scurvy, no food in the house, never saw fruit from one week to the next.
A 6 yr old boy walking around the town in the pouring rain at 3 AM because "It's not my turn to sleep.
I get annoyed sometimes when I think of what I've seen in this country and hear people shouting about poverty. I realise it is hard for them but they are luckier than they will ever know.

Leaving aside the argument as to whether Wales has the worst child poverty in the UK, what is classified as poverty in the UK is light years away from poverty elsewhere (as presumably in Azerbaijan?). I have never been there but I could show you places in Uganda or Malawi or India where you would weep at the way some people have to live. For me it was a life changing experience.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Leaving aside the argument as to whether Wales has the worst child poverty in the UK, what is classified as poverty in the UK is light years away from poverty elsewhere (as presumably in Azerbaijan?). I have never been there but I could show you places in Uganda or Malawi or India where you would weep at the way some people have to live. For me it was a life changing experience.

There is no argument, Wales has the worst child poverty in the UK

Some of the upper Bridgend valleys are amongst the poorest areas in Europe

The fact that there are kids starving to death or walking miles for water in parts of Africa means that there are kids worse off but isn't it very worrying that in the UK there is such a gulf in wealth ?

Kids in poverty in the UK die from malnutrition

Many more die from starvation in Africa but this isn't a race to the bottom

[xsnaggle]

There is no argument, Wales has the worst child poverty in the UK

Some of the upper Bridgend valleys are amongst the poorest areas in Europe

The fact that there are kids starving to death or walking miles for water in parts of Africa means that there are kids worse off but isn't it very worrying that in the UK there is such a gulf in wealth ?

Kids in poverty in the UK die from malnutrition

Many more die from starvation in Africa but this isn't a race to the bottom

Bullshit, it doesn't!!And as I said hasn't had for at least the last 50 years to my certain knowledge.

[xsnaggle]

Leaving aside the argument as to whether Wales has the worst child poverty in the UK, what is classified as poverty in the UK is light years away from poverty elsewhere (as presumably in Azerbaijan?). I have never been there but I could show you places in Uganda or Malawi or India where you would weep at the way some people have to live. For me it was a life changing experience.

I wasn't refwerring to Azerbaijan but there is enough poverty there. And i agree with you about Africa.
But I was talking specifically about UK.