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I stopped reading Tuerto's post when he said "Sol Campbell was 15 years ahead of the game".
No, you gave a list of contemporaries that suited your narrative. I gave a list of his white contemporaries that also had to start from the bottom. I also gave a few examples of black players who were afforded the same level of entry and as Gerrard, Lampard.etc
Maybe, just maybe, Campbell didn’t inspire enough to be given a job at a higher level. He doesn’t come across the most personable of characters and his loyalty is also questionable after what he did to Spurs. Bryan Robson and Steven Gerrard both cut their teeth managing younger teams at United and Liverpool when they finished playing. Did Campbell show the same appetite when he retired? They were also very inspirational captains and leaders. As colossal a defender as Campbell was I don’t recall him being a vocal leader on the pitch and the same has been said of him in the dressing room by ex team mates.
Sol Campbell is an example. He went to countless interviews and didn't get a job. Maybe he is shit, the point is, that plenty of white players are given the opportunity the show that they're shit, time after time after time........Ex black players don't seem to get much of a look in, especially from youth team upwards. Since the premier league started there has only been 9 black managers. Surely, that's lopsided? I think things will change over the next 15 years or so. This generation aren't just going to take it, and there is much more awareness.
I agree that there was a period of time where Sol was world class, appreciate some here don’t think so, but I do.
However the reason he’s not got the jobs you think he deserves is not because he is black, he’s just not a very credible candidate.
Why great players should automatically become great managers is a view that always mystifies me, should great carpenters become great managers of carpenters? Just because they understand what carpenters do, doesn’t make them great managers - most of us can relate to a time where we have worked for someone who understands the mechanics of a role, but they are not great managers - it’s a different skill set.
Sol talks gibberish and does not come across well in the media at all. Two contemporaries of his, off the top of my head that could have made it would be Mark Bright & Les Ferdinand, but they chose ‘upstairs’ roles.
Don’t always agree with Hartley, but I don’t think there has ever been a better time to be a black manager, if that’s what you want and your credible.
You're missing my point, or maybe i didn't explain myself very well, although i appreciate the reply. Sol Campbell is just an example. He may well be a shit manager, coach, not very personable etc. That hasn't stopped plenty of ex top class white players getting job after job though. I would've thought that plenty of ex black players would love the luxury or continuous failure that seems to be the privilege of plenty of ex white footballers.
I don't know who the countless others are but there's a difference between being a top player and being world class.
Off the top of my head...Bobby Moore, Franco Baresi, Beckenbauer, Cannevaro, Gentile, Dessailly were all world class as was John Charles though I never saw him play.
Sol Campbell was a top player but to put him in the same league as those players is laughable.
Sol Campbell was a good player, probably one of the best in this country at for a time.
In world terms, I'm not so sure.
IMHO, to be considered world class, you'd have to have something to show for it.
He never won the Champions League, won nothing at international level (tho he did make team of the tournament a couple of times) but I don't remember him ever being nominated for the Balon d'or.
If you listen to him speaking mind you, he was the GOAT, such an air of superiority, right up there with Garth Crooks
Re the OP, bloke's an arsehole.
Are you suggesting that black people in whatever profession should have management or boardroom positions in proportion to their numbers in the said industry, regardless of their ability? That percentages are more important than ability?
To me that sounds like a recipe for failure.
People should be given positions based on their ability, that is true. Do you think black people are less able to be in boardrooms? I mean, is it not a bit odd that there are:
- No black Chairmen
- No Black CEOs
- No black CFOs
in any of the top 100 companies in the UK?
Also, isn't it a bit odd that only 3.4% of these positions are held by ethnic minorities in 2021. The same percentage as 2014?
Yes, people should be picked on ability but surely you would expect to see a similar percentage of black people in dugouts as you see on a pitch? Similarly, you would expect to see a similar percentage of black people in boardrooms as you see on the payroll. I mean, that isn't going for percentages, but it's striking that the percentages are vastly different at top levels of business compared to the rest of the business isn't it? Maybe it isn't striking to you?