food prices to rise

[Feedback]

Re: food prices to rise

Or provide cheaper goods/services, or to end up in owner's pockets etc.

well yes, of course. that's why you tax the drawings of the business, and allow better tax relief on staff costs.

[Feedback]

Re: food prices to rise

With respect, I feel I've missed your point because I feel you're giving mixed messages. You're asking rhetorical questions but coming up with no solutions. You say all the right things and imply that we, as a society, shouldn't have food banks, benefits, etc. which, to me, is like wishing for world peace, but at the same time, I've no idea what you're advocating as an alternative?

If we're going to have capitalism and the disproportionate accumulation of wealth by individuals who have obscene amounts of money and all the benefits that that wealth can give them, then we must, as a caring society, have a social means of security for the workers who help the employer accumulate those obscene amounts of personal wealth. We could call it......social security.

The real 'benefits' are the benefits that obscene amounts of personal wealth can bring the individual e.g. being able to perform a pointless vanity journey to space whilst other people are pointlessly dying because they didn't go to the right school and therefore they end up with substandard healthcare.

I checked out 'orphan crushing machine' and its meaning and context as I don't do Twitter, Facebook et al and haven't, for just over a decade now so it's not one I've read about or seen used in other media. I think you're citing it incorrectly though in your posts.

Like I said, I'd be more interested in your solutions.

I never said I had solutions, my point was that the claim is that foodbanks are bad but welfare is good seems to be at odds with each other. Neither should be required in our society yet here we are. If you're claiming a handout what does it matter if its called welfare or foodbank? Its still a handout.

The likes of Bezos and Branson aren't indicative of business owners and whilst they own large amounts of wealth, this is not piles of cash but future earnings. I'm not advocating that the accumulation of such wealth is good for society, just pointing out that this wealth is not liquid.

what is the answer - well governments are starting to co-ordinate the issue of low tax jurisdictions in a global economy, which is long overdue. This should help combat profit shifting/BEPS.

we could also move towards an fully indirect taxation system - a system which targets those who spend on luxuries whilst ensures those who only spend on the basics aren't taxed at all. Indirect taxes are very difficult for the individual to avoid, and thus the wealthiest in society end up paying more tax at the point of consumption, rather than using various legal structures to avoid paying tax altogether.

[ToTaL ITK]

Re: food prices to rise

Firstly I didn't vote for brexit so not sure if the royal we at the beginning is relevant

Secondly food prices as well as other basics are already rising and having an impact on those on the poverty line (people who are in "work poverty" is rising as well)

So simply saying the British public need to step up is a bit simplistic

The British public have been doing their bit for decades while politicians took the piss and shat all over them.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: food prices to rise

I never said I had solutions, my point was that the claim is that foodbanks are bad but welfare is good seems to be at odds with each other. Neither should be required in our society yet here we are. If you're claiming a handout what does it matter if its called welfare or foodbank? Its still a handout.

The likes of Bezos and Branson aren't indicative of business owners and whilst they own large amounts of wealth, this is not piles of cash but future earnings. I'm not advocating that the accumulation of such wealth is good for society, just pointing out that this wealth is not liquid.

what is the answer - well governments are starting to co-ordinate the issue of low tax jurisdictions in a global economy, which is long overdue. This should help combat profit shifting/BEPS.

we could also move towards an fully indirect taxation system - a system which targets those who spend on luxuries whilst ensures those who only spend on the basics aren't taxed at all. Indirect taxes are very difficult for the individual to avoid, and thus the wealthiest in society end up paying more tax at the point of consumption, rather than using various legal structures to avoid paying tax altogether.

Thanks for your reply. I like the suggestions in your last paragraph. There's a lot of merit in what you suggest IMO.

Branson & Bezos are jarring (I kind of think Branson edges it because of him wanting a £500M government bailout for Virgin Atlantic though).

My problem is in your first paragraph though and relates back to the topic of this thread re. food prices. I can agree with what you mean in principle because I think you're saying the right things. It's just the language. Welfare and handouts, particularly handouts. If we could just call them help and support I'd feel more comfortable because it's hard enough for people to ask for help but handouts just feels degrading.

I'm happy to leave it with and agree with you that 'Neither should be required in our society yet here we are'.

[az city]

Re: food prices to rise

But should we subsidise people's poor choices?

I'm from a poor background. I have poor family and family on benefits.

I have family that already could not afford to provide adequately whilst on benefits but still chose to have more kids, continued to smoke and continued to make choices that puts them in a worse situation that they should have been.

As for providing food - it does take away the independence and I do appreciate Citizen's Nephew's posts. But on the flip side (if it was food boxes or vouchers instead of food banks) it not only shields people from the inflation of food we can also ensure that the families particularly the kids can have more nutritious and beneficial food rather than sacks of chicken nuggets and crispy pancakes.

Fair play, that's straight from the far right play(story)book. Basically you're demeaning the poor for being too thick for their own good and would curtail their choices. Only the rich may have children, smoke, drink etc?

Ask yourself the more fundamental question - why are these people poor?

[WJ99mobile]

Re: food prices to rise

Fair play, that's straight from the far right play(story)book. Basically you're demeaning the poor for being too thick for their own good and would curtail their choices. Only the rich may have children, smoke, drink etc?

Ask yourself the more fundamental question - why are these people poor?

I am far from a far right. In fact I am called the wishy washy lefty in work

All I am saying is that is there should be plenty of safety nets and support but people should be responsible for their actions.

Well why don’t we reduce the tax on smoking and drinking to zero then and improve peoples ‘choice’? Would you be in favour of that?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: food prices to rise

I am far from a far right. In fact I am called the wishy washy lefty in work

All I am saying is that is there should be plenty of safety nets and support but people should be responsible for their actions.

Well why don’t we reduce the tax on smoking and drinking to zero then and improve peoples ‘choice’? Would you be in favour of that?

Where do you work, Conservative Central Office?:hehe:

[Feedback]

Re: food prices to rise

Fair play, that's straight from the far right play(story)book. Basically you're demeaning the poor for being too thick for their own good and would curtail their choices. Only the rich may have children, smoke, drink etc?

Ask yourself the more fundamental question - why are these people poor?

Whilst you may view his opinions as far right, to suggest this opinion is far right really does dilute the extremist positions those on the far right actually hold.

[Feedback]

Re: food prices to rise

Thanks for your reply. I like the suggestions in your last paragraph. There's a lot of merit in what you suggest IMO.

Branson & Bezos are jarring (I kind of think Branson edges it because of him wanting a £500M government bailout for Virgin Atlantic though).

My problem is in your first paragraph though and relates back to the topic of this thread re. food prices. I can agree with what you mean in principle because I think you're saying the right things. It's just the language. Welfare and handouts, particularly handouts. If we could just call them help and support I'd feel more comfortable because it's hard enough for people to ask for help but handouts just feels degrading.

I'm happy to leave it with and agree with you that 'Neither should be required in our society yet here we are'.

Fair point about the language used. It wasn't meant to be insulting or derogatory, although thinking about it maybe if we accept welfare as a handout, then it won't be so socially acceptable and more might be done to address why we have it and what can and should be done to remove its necessity.

Re: the orphan crushing machine - the Tories laud their achievement of reducing the numbers on welfare all the while ignoring the rise in use of food banks. Conversely Labour will reduce the use of foodbanks while ignoring the rise in those receiving benefits and welfare.

Neither party or its supporters can see that neither situation is desirable, and that we really should be looking to eradicate the need for such support systems in the first place.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: food prices to rise

Fair play, that's straight from the far right play(story)book. Basically you're demeaning the poor for being too thick for their own good and would curtail their choices. Only the rich may have children, smoke, drink etc?

Ask yourself the more fundamental question - why are these people poor?

Yep all the hallmarks of someone who’s been reading too much internet propaganda

[Feedback]

Re: food prices to rise

Yep all the hallmarks of someone who’s been reading too much internet propaganda

Do you really come to the comments section of a football forum to exact critical political discourse?

[WJ99mobile]

Re: food prices to rise

Where do you work, Conservative Central Office?:hehe:

:hehe:

[JamesWales]

Re: food prices to rise

Makes me laugh (and slightly depresses me) when people try to shoe-horn Brexit into everything. It is a factor in lots of good and bad political and economic news, but it's rarely the defining feature, particularly compared to the pandemic.

Food prices are rising across the EU

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-food-prices-rising-twice-as-fast-as-inflation/

There's been a huge rise in shipping costs. California has 44 ships waiting to dock

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9941927/Record-breaking-44-container-ships-anchored-coast-California.html

Inflation is currently higher in the EU than the UK

https://www.ft.com/content/2af45b20-ef7b-4506-a29f-b4938edbe5c6

Why people don't do a bit of googling before blaming brexit just because they didn't vote for it 5 years ago, is beyond me.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: food prices to rise

Makes me laugh (and slightly depresses me) when people try to shoe-horn Brexit into everything. It is a factor in lots of good and bad political and economic news, but it's rarely the defining feature, particularly compared to the pandemic.

Food prices are rising across the EU

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-food-prices-rising-twice-as-fast-as-inflation/

There's been a huge rise in shipping costs. California has 44 ships waiting to dock

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9941927/Record-breaking-44-container-ships-anchored-coast-California.html

Inflation is currently higher in the EU than the UK

https://www.ft.com/content/2af45b20-ef7b-4506-a29f-b4938edbe5c6

Why people don't do a bit of googling before blaming brexit just because they didn't vote for it 5 years ago, is beyond me.

Equally, those who voted for Brexit will always be in denial of any problems it has caused.

[JamesWales]

Re: food prices to rise

Equally, those who voted for Brexit will always be in denial of any problems it has caused.

I don't disagree. Some people are stuck in their ways on both sides.

The truth doesn't care how people voted in a one-off referendum five years ago mind.

The point is though that some people point to something negative in the UK and scream brexit, whereas if they spent 2 minutes googling stories from abroad they would very often realise the same issues there, and hence brexit clearly wasn't the cause, although it may have been a contributory factor.

I cant stand it. Move on.