127 is the answer

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: 127 is the answer

I would like to see reduced inequality, greater confidence, a happier society (almost impossible to assess) a more content, less anxious society, greater health outcomes etc.

In which way did membership of the EU prevent all of the above?

[az city]

Re: 127 is the answer

Do you really have to descend to such language in such a debate? If you have a valid perspective why not just debate in a mature fashion?

Meh

[JamesWales]

Re: 127 is the answer

In which way did membership of the EU prevent all of the above?

It didn't necessary (although for several reasons I don't think it particularly helped). Nonetheless, I was asked what would make me think leaving the EU had been to the detriment to the UK, and those are the kind of metrics I would use.

I would say the same to assess an independent Wales, or a new Labour government or anything else. I just think they are reasonable measurements to assess, over a period of time, whether something has been a success or not.

I'm certainly not going to come to such a radical conclusion because two months ago, I couldn't get a Tropicana with my Mcdonalds breakfast on Queen St (I did get one in the St Mary St Mcdonalds, you will be pleased to know)

[az city]

Re: 127 is the answer

I did promise you the last word, but given as you asked a fair question at the end, I'll answer that:

Q/ What would it take for you to admit that Brexit has been to the detriment of the UK?

A/ Economically, I will be looking to see how the UK compares vs advanced western nations in the EU (Sweden, Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal, France, Belgium etc..broadly the eurozone) in the coming years in terms of things like GDP growth, unemployment, debt, wage growth, inflation. ie, the key economic indicators which provide the best wider picture.

Socially, it's much harder to analyse, but I would like to see reduced inequality, greater confidence, a happier society (almost impossible to assess) a more content, less anxious society, greater health outcomes etc.

So that's how I will assess it in quantitative and qualitative terms.

We don't agree, but I am sure we both want more or less the same things for Wales and the UK so lets home it works out. :thumbup:

About 6.40 in for Brexit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmVmgn5ir90&t=321s

[JamesWales]

Re: 127 is the answer

About 6.40 in for Brexit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmVmgn5ir90&t=321s

That is interesting, and thanks for posting. But it is from 2019 and he is largely talking there about what would happen if we 'crashed out', ie left with no deal. But I don't doubt his theories, but as more and more real life economic data emerges, a clearer analysis can be built up.

But really, I don't see much point repeating ourselves, so I will focus instead on your tea-thread.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: 127 is the answer

A/ Economically, I will be looking to see how the UK compares vs advanced western nations in the EU (Sweden, Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal, France, Belgium etc..broadly the eurozone) in the coming years in terms of things like GDP growth, unemployment, debt, wage growth, inflation. ie, the key economic indicators which provide the best wider picture.

Socially, it's much harder to analyse, but I would like to see reduced inequality, greater confidence, a happier society (almost impossible to assess) a more content, less anxious society, greater health outcomes etc.

And how does brexit make this any easier? You must be pretty sure it will be since you voted for it and so ardantley defend it, so what evidence and facts do you have to back this up?

Because currently all evidence points to the opposite. How long are you giving until things turn around to say that brexit is the catalyst?

What about the other things we've lost the freedom of movement to study and work abroad?

[Rjk]

Re: 127 is the answer

I don't anticipate any lowering of food standards. Animal welfare is anything will be enhanced if things like live animal exports are outlawed.

Not direcltly related, but in terms of land management, I think the proposed replacement to CAP is much better.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1446184298529296392?t=vMhnEJrDnOgj1d2OzfWcvg&s=19

90% of American chicken has white stripe disease as they've bred and bred them to grow fatter and faster that the chicks are killed after a few weeks and are not in a healthy state.
it's very fatty and tastes of nothing
I guess it is probably similar here but perhaps not quite as extreme.

[Dave Blue]

Re: 127 is the answer

And how does brexit make this any easier? You must be pretty sure it will be since you voted for it and so ardantley defend it, so what evidence and facts do you have to back this up?

Because currently all evidence points to the opposite. How long are you giving until things turn around to say that brexit is the catalyst?

What about the other things we've lost the freedom of movement to study and work abroad?

Your average Brexit xenophobe wouldn’t want to do that.