Quote Originally Posted by Feedback View Post
firstly, we are experiencing food shortages in comparison to pre Brexit. Arguing that we're currently better off than the third world is not really an argument, and it paints a picture of someone clutching at straws.

As for inflation, it has already been said that the Eurozone and EU has differing inflation than our own. Again you cannot compare the two because they are different customs unions and markets. What next? we're doing better than Zimbabwe or Venezuela so we should be thankful. Inflation is at nearly 4% and it hasn't been that high for many a year.

when you answer a question with a question it tells us you have no answer of your own. But I'll humour you. Firstly, I don't believe in a totally free market, I may have used to, but opinions do change. However, ignoring that point as that is not what the one you were making, wanting to have free markets, free movement of people and free movement of capital and goods without state interference, in my opinion, is a good thing. We had it in the EU and if it means we don't get to buy bamboo from the Vietnamese duty free but it does mean 500m people are free to live and work amongst each other without state interference, I'll take it.

Life is not so binary as you make out, and if it is a choice between being part of a large economic bloc that has freedom of its people at its heart, then I'll take that over being able to make free trade deals but at the same time blocking people from moving around freely and without interference. And FWIW, I was very much in favour of Schengen.

Maybe we should have just accepted Hitler's inexorable rise to power in the 1930s as such a fait accompli and let him get on with it. and no, I'm not equating the two before you descend into apoplexy. The point being is that Farage started his folly in the 1990s and 20+ years later he got his dream. The more we point out that we are better of in the EU, the more likely it is that we will have another referendum on re-joining. Do you think the SNP have just given up?

Why doesn't it solve anything? The EU would have us back tomorrow if we asked. Notwithstanding that point, we are here now because of Brexit. EU lorry drivers leaving because they feel unwelcome (who can blame them), fruit pickers going home because they feel unwelcome (who can blame them), shortages in the hospitality industry, the list goes on.

we had upwards of 2m or more EU nationals working here, many doing the type of work some Brits think are beneath them. Hard working people who work contributing towards a better society for all of us and we turned our backs on them and said we think we're better than them. You'll excuse me if I'm not frasmotic, unuspeptic, even compunctuous with glee. Its a shit show and we made it clear to our closest neighbours what we think of them.
Mate, we are just going in circles here, but nonetheless, hold my hand and walk in a circle with me one more time..

Other than that, you can have the last word - i just think we need to focus on clear economic facts, many of which are emerging in a post-EU and (hopefully) post covid world. https://tradingeconomics.com/calendar is a superb website and lists daily data (todays shows Germany factory orders in a big fall, construction stagnating in the EU, retail sales falling in France and UK construction growing, but more slowly than the last few months btw..)

1 - Nah, sorry, I don’t think ‘food shortages’ is an appropriate term here. Supply chain issues sure, food shortages? That’s hyperbolic language. I shop around so have been to every supermarket bar Waitrose and not failed to buy anything I want. I did note that orange juice was unavailable in McDonalds once a couple of months ago, but food shortages..come on. Even the strongly anti-brexit guardian summarise it today as: Tesco profits double as shelves stay stocked despite supply chain problems | Tesco | The Guardian

2 - Your point on inflation is weak. You are saying inflation is being caused by brexit, but inflation is higher in the Eurozone. Quite clearly what is driving global inflation is not brexit – does it help? Maybe not, but you need to deal in reality here and the facts don’t back you up on it. Now I’m not saying the UK won’t overtake the Eurozone or the EU. It may, and then it will fall behind it again. That’s what happens, but my point stands – Inflation is higher in the eurozone and many EU nations. I’ll repeat the data here: https://tradingeconomics.com/country...ntinent=europe

3 - I’m not answering a question with a question as much as identifying myself as favouring mixed economies. It now seems you do too. I think society and economies are very complex and I favour our government having greater control over those levers. Remember, leaving the EU doesn’t prevent us doing anything. We can have totally open immigration in future if we want. We can apply to rejoin the single market if we want. What it does do is give us options – no bad thing in my opinion

4 - I don’t make life out to be binary at all. In fact, if there is a running theme through nearly everything I say on political or social issues, it’s that life is complex and shades of grey and there are pros and cons to everything.

5 – Your reference to Hitler (whilst simultaneously not equating them!) is of course pretty absurd, although we are all used to it for the last five years. I’ve said, campaign to re-join the single market by all means. Go for it, but by any definition it isn’t happening any time soon, so we need alternative solutions to problems at hand.

6 – It doesn’t solve anything, because all you are doing is ignoring economic, social and democratic facts, stamping your feet and saying the answer is to rejoin the EU, but that’s not happening, so it’s a waste of time.

7 – The UK processed 6m cases for people to work in the UK. Right up to the pandemic immigration from the EU was significantly higher than emigration to it (although it had slowed since the vote) so the idea that ‘everyone left cos of brexit’ just doesn’t hold water. Obviously there will be some cases of that, but the pandemic is clearly the factor here. Would you want to be stuck here in an uncertain locked down country or stuck at home with your family?

8 – We hear lots about “lazy brits” who think work is beneath them etc. I hear you, but the issue is that a lot of sectors have reconfigured to only suit immigration; farming is the classic example, where the hours and wages suit those who can come over and are happy to live on the farm in basic accommodation. The whole sector has become totally reliant upon. It’s less that Brits won’t do it, it’s just few can do and maintain a quality of life. I would agree with you that fixing this is a problem, and where things like temporary visas, or working holidays etc would be very welcome.