Quinton de Kock.

[life on mars]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

There are people , several on here , who have put forward arguments for not taking the knee and the whole issue of BLM .

I think that people of course should have the choice . I think if football fans were booing individual players because they didn't take the knee I some ways that would be as bad as boooing players for doing so .

But clearly it's going to happen . If someone won't take the knee after being asked by the cricket or football authorities and their team people are not going to take the view that they don't want politics in sport or its time to move on ......many will think the person not taking the knee is racist .

So that person may get abuse at the ground or on social media or just walking down the street

It's all a bit of a mess really . If I was in his position I would just do it .

One could argue he feel its a hunan rights thing , and yes he could just abide by the directive , not all of the squad are abiding by it , some just stand like him ,some stand and raise a fist ,some take to the knee, the South African Cricket board want a uniform approach hence the directive, the others in the squad not so talented may feel pressurised which is not right , if they all agreed you would have seen them all taking the knee, lots of images can be seen it's not the case .

Quinton de Kock is a superstar in thier ranks perhaps he's trying to help others whom feel pressured by a cricket board and not a decision taken by the players themselves as a collective 🤔

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

One could argue he feel its a hunan rights thing , and yes he could just abide by the directive , not all of the squad are abiding by it , some just stand like him ,some stand and raise a fist ,some take to the knee, the South African Cricket board want a uniform approach hence the directive, the others in the squad not so talented may feel pressurised which is not right , if they all agreed you would have seen them all taking the knee, lots of images can be seen it's not the case .

Quinton de Kock is a superstar in thier ranks perhaps he's trying to help others whom feel pressured by a cricket board and not a decision taken by the players themselves as a collective 🤔

Maybe so

But I would just do it

[life on mars]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

Maybe so

But I would just do it

It's a free world and it's understandable you feel that why, perhaps he feels by forcing people or putting pressure upon players is counter productive to the gesture dilutes its impact , some maybe taking too the knee and not wanting too for any number of reasons, there are some black players and teams that don't.

[Don Corleone]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

I heard a black South African journalist saying on the radio this morning that de Kock had done a lot of good work on race relations and was an active supporter of racial equality but that he thought his reasons were that he didn’t believe he should be forced to take the knee as it was a token gesture (though I think the player himself hasn’t actually made a statement yet)

[Dave Blue]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

I heard a black South African journalist saying on the radio this morning that de Kock had done a lot of good work on race relations and was an active supporter of racial equality but that he thought his reasons were that he didn’t believe he should be forced to take the knee as it was a token gesture (though I think the player himself hasn’t actually made a statement yet)

Sounds a very luke warm reason for ruling yourself out of a tournament.

[life on mars]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

I heard a black South African journalist saying on the radio this morning that de Kock had done a lot of good work on race relations and was an active supporter of racial equality but that he thought his reasons were that he didn’t believe he should be forced to take the knee as it was a token gesture (though I think the player himself hasn’t actually made a statement yet)

I heard another one live on television calling him a racist over this its just incredible.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

Sounds a very luke warm reason for ruling yourself out of a tournament.

It does doesn't it? I've been reading up on CSA recently and Jonty Rhodes has revealed there are still problems behind the scenes and has been quoted as saying the black community is still subject to brutal racism, even after nearly three decades of the end of the apartheid era. I'm not saying this is connected but it's not a good look.

It strikes me as lame to argue it's a human rights thing as some have done when looking at SA's history of apartheid. Taking the knee is a mild inconvenience of a few seconds compared to 27 years imprisonment on Robben Island.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

No-one should be forced into making such gestures.

[Hot Shot Hamish.]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

Good for him. He is a class act as a cricketer. I don't want to miss a ball when he is playing, and am pretty sure that he is just standing up for his individual right not to take the knee. Does Wilfred Zaha still not partake? Still a very brave decision from a world class cricketer.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

I can understand why Hilts decided not to start a thread on this, I thought was it worth it before deciding to go ahead. The reason I did was the South Africa angle which makes this case different from the more straightforward stuff that has been debated on here before. Given that country's history, it must be a very sensitive issue and for South African sports administrators it must be like trying to walk through a minefield.

What has not drawn much comment as far as I can say is that the game De Kock pulled out of was South Africa's second game in this competition, not their first. De Kock played in the first match when South Africa took on Australia's side consisting of, I'm almost certain, eleven white men and I tried to find out if the team had taken the knee then, but all I got was this unsourced quote from Google;-

"South Africa's players have been told to take a knee ahead of their remaining games at the tournament after "concerns were raised" over their "different postures" before their defeat to Australia in Abu Dhabi on Saturday."

For me, national sporting associations are asking for trouble when they start ordering a team representing their country to make gestures like taking the knee, but it is complicated and, as mentioned earlier, something of a minefield. Take England for example, this story;-

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-cricket-players-take-knee-25310878

claims that it would not have been their first choice to take the knee at this World Cup and that they would have preferred to have worn t shirts with anti racism sentiments on them before their matches, only to be told that they were not allowed to wear clothing which has a "political" statement on it.

This brings home the futility and idiocy of claiming that any refusal to take the knee makes the team or person concerned racist - how could someone be if they're wearing a short deploring racism for the world to see? Similarly, I presume Sol Bamba has not been taking the knee before Middlesbrough games because they are one of the sides who don't make the gesture and haven't been dong so for more than a year, yet I'm sure Sol must have been taking the knee before our final few matches of last season when he was named as a sub because I'm sure it would have been pointed out in the media or on social media if he hadn't been doing so while the rest of his team mates were.

It seems to me that Sol is just abiding with a team vote on the subject and I can only imagine that anyone who chose to go against a team vote, be it for or against taking the knee, does so because they have very strong convictions on the matter.

Returning to DeKock, he's South Africa's best player in this format of the game in my view and this, along with the fact that we're talking South Africa with its I'll say chequered history on the subject, must have felt especially strongly on the subject to take a decision which might end up having enormous repercussions on his career.

There is an additional consideration in this case in that DeKock's decision might be founded on a resentment towards being told what to do by the South Arican cricket Board, but he has refused to take the knee before - when asked about this during a tour of the West Indies, he replied “My reason? I’ll keep it to myself. It’s my own, personal opinion. It’s everyone’s decision; no one’s forced to do anything, not in life. That’s the way I see things.”.

I don't think people should rush to conclusions about DeKock yet, but I'd said it's reasonable to ask, and possibly beneficial to the player, that he expands on that rather mealy mouthed justification of his actions.

[Dave Blue]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

I heard a black South African journalist saying on the radio this morning that de Kock had done a lot of good work on race relations and was an active supporter of racial equality but that he thought his reasons were that he didn’t believe he should be forced to take the knee as it was a token gesture (though I think the player himself hasn’t actually made a statement yet)

Bamba seemed to be in two minds on Saturday, you could see he was almost trying to take the knee and then stopped himself. The Middlesbrough issue must be because of the booing heard in that area of the country when England played there. The north east in particular seems to be a very confused place at present.

[poc]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

its his choice i hope hes not singled out for this, i would bet on a lot more sportsmen feel the same

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

its his choice i hope hes not singled out for this, i would bet on a lot more sportsmen feel the same

He's replied very eloquently on this today https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...g-to-take-knee

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

I can understand why Hilts decided not to start a thread on this, I thought was it worth it before deciding to go ahead. The reason I did was the South Africa angle which makes this case different from the more straightforward stuff that has been debated on here before. Given that country's history, it must be a very sensitive issue and for South African sports administrators it must be like trying to walk through a minefield.

What has not drawn much comment as far as I can say is that the game De Kock pulled out of was South Africa's second game in this competition, not their first. De Kock played in the first match when South Africa took on Australia's side consisting of, I'm almost certain, eleven white men and I tried to find out if the team had taken the knee then, but all I got was this unsourced quote from Google;-

"South Africa's players have been told to take a knee ahead of their remaining games at the tournament after "concerns were raised" over their "different postures" before their defeat to Australia in Abu Dhabi on Saturday."

For me, national sporting associations are asking for trouble when they start ordering a team representing their country to make gestures like taking the knee, but it is complicated and, as mentioned earlier, something of a minefield. Take England for example, this story;-

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/england-cricket-players-take-knee-25310878

claims that it would not have been their first choice to take the knee at this World Cup and that they would have preferred to have worn t shirts with anti racism sentiments on them before their matches, only to be told that they were not allowed to wear clothing which has a "political" statement on it.

This brings home the futility and idiocy of claiming that any refusal to take the knee makes the team or person concerned racist - how could someone be if they're wearing a short deploring racism for the world to see? Similarly, I presume Sol Bamba has not been taking the knee before Middlesbrough games because they are one of the sides who don't make the gesture and haven't been dong so for more than a year, yet I'm sure Sol must have been taking the knee before our final few matches of last season when he was named as a sub because I'm sure it would have been pointed out in the media or on social media if he hadn't been doing so while the rest of his team mates were.

It seems to me that Sol is just abiding with a team vote on the subject and I can only imagine that anyone who chose to go against a team vote, be it for or against taking the knee, does so because they have very strong convictions on the matter.

Returning to DeKock, he's South Africa's best player in this format of the game in my view and this, along with the fact that we're talking South Africa with its I'll say chequered history on the subject, must have felt especially strongly on the subject to take a decision which might end up having enormous repercussions on his career.

There is an additional consideration in this case in that DeKock's decision might be founded on a resentment towards being told what to do by the South Arican cricket Board, but he has refused to take the knee before - when asked about this during a tour of the West Indies, he replied “My reason? I’ll keep it to myself. It’s my own, personal opinion. It’s everyone’s decision; no one’s forced to do anything, not in life. That’s the way I see things.”.

I don't think people should rush to conclusions about DeKock yet, but I'd said it's reasonable to ask, and possibly beneficial to the player, that he expands on that rather mealy mouthed justification of his actions.

Great post Bob. He's expanded today. It's just a shame it had to get to this point in the first place as there are still a lot of issues regarding equality in SA cricket. I still think it was a poor decision and not what SA needed.

You may have seen this piece too yesterday https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...hieves-nothing and it highlights why, when only 8.9% of SAs are white, and even less in cricket, three decades on from the Apartheid regime, there're still a lot of problems to sort out. I do think we should be careful of equating taking the knee for CSA as anything like doing so for other sportspeople. It's a way more complicated issue.

[splott parker]

Re: Quinton de Kock.

It's a free world and it's understandable you feel that why, perhaps he feels by forcing people or putting pressure upon players is counter productive to the gesture dilutes its impact , some maybe taking too the knee and not wanting too for any number of reasons, there are some black players and teams that don't.

But he hasn’t been forced to do anything. He’s made his choice and, as his captain explains, there are consequences to that decision. Nobody is forcing you to produce your COVID pass to get in down the City but if you don’t the consequences are that you don’t get in, it’s your choice as not taking the knee is de Kock’s.