Reply With QuoteI think we've just cross-threaded and I'm too tired to try and unravel it!Originally Posted by Feedback
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You've missed the point. The Welsh government could spend more money if it wanted to. Its about what they see as priorities.
I think we've just cross-threaded and I'm too tired to try and unravel it!
Exactly!!!!...and the priorities have been a £40m loan to Cardiff airport, following on from writing off £40m of airport debts. £150m on surveys etc for the m4 relief road, which, despite their own experts saying should be built, has been scrapped.
Add to that £330m on the heads of the valleys dual carriageway( despite all other road building being stopped), millions on nationalising Wales railways, millions on exploring the tidal lagoon concept at Swansea....I could go on.
Wales receives about £1.20 for every £1 England receives. I question whether our money is being spent wisely when our health service continues to fall short.
There's nothing to unravel.
The Welsh people choose their government, the governments sets the agenda, the Welsh people can choose to remove that government.
What is also missed is the Welsh government now has tax raising powers, so its within their power to make changes. Its not all about Westminster.
What is also missing in this thread is geography and topography. Its going to cost a lot more to provide an ambulance service to Powys than it is to London, on a per capita basis. Compare Wales with Cumbria or Northumberland and the results may be similar.
most of the costs you've mentioned are infrastructure spending, which we definitely don't spend more on than England. whereas wales spends more per capita on general day to day spending like health and welfare because its needs are higher , it isn't within the remit of the welsh government to take infrastructure spending and spend it on healthcare instead - nor would it be a particularly good idea
OK, so to summarise so far. It's a good idea to have cross-party management i.e. work together, governments are corrupt, budgets are mismanaged, we don't prioritise our health and, my own personal favourite I'll shoehorn in... the planet's f*cked.
Thank buddha for the footie tomorrow.
Must you be so ****ing rude? I'm saying party politics should be kept out of healthcare. That's a reasonable statement. You respond with a tirade and quote a far-left MP and some irrelevant guardian article about the English health secretary when we are talking about Wales.
You didn't need to do that. Could have pointed out where everyone can work together and focus on common goals. Instead it's always more sectarian stuff. It's why nothing will ever change
There is nothing sectarian in my posts. I countered your opinions about people 'politicising' the NHS by pointing out that most of the decisions - legislation, resource allocation, public-private roles, access etc - are political (whether or not party political) and you dismiss that as a tirade, without engaging with the points at all. That is so ****ing rude!
The tweet from Zarah Sultana MP and the Guardian article are pointing out the way the Health Secretary has used his political position to gain personal financial benefits from the NHS and extend privatisation. You need a re-think on where the politicisation is coming from.
The other strand to this thread has been all about the political choices about the health service available to the Welsh Government. Absolutely right and it cuts right across your pitch. There are choices to be made about priorities and resources (even if constrained by UK law and UK government budgets) and the people should be able to decide on those issues through their elected representatives. But it is not just about manifestos and elections or party political 'point scoring' (aka holding the other lot to account) the thing is political with a small 'p'.
why the straight face?
you accuse Westminster of all sorts, but ignore the Senedd. In your world when its good in wales its down to Welsh Labour, when its bad its down to Westminster. you also go on about profiting from healthcare, and completely ignore that the largest non state healthcare providers in the UK are non profit (BUPA and Nuffield Health). You seem to think that only the state can provide healthcare without turning a profit. most will agree that BUPA and Nuffield Health are light years ahead of the NHS in terms of quality of care, service and outcomes any surplus reinvested in patient care.
What I don't understand is if someone can see a specialist today, why can't the NHS pay for it today? Why do they have to wait 6 months? If its on BUPA or Nuffield then the specialist will see you straight away. All we need to do is follow the German and French model that allows private sector delivery but funded by the public purse. Waiting times are unheard of over there. However, the politicking you claim to avoid wouldn't allow you to admit there are alternatives to what we have at present that does not involve total state delivery.
meh!
I can't remember ever commenting on Welsh Labour in the way you describe. I usually avoid the arguments about the Senedd because I don't live in Wales. I plead guilty to commenting on the cock-ups and corruption of the UK government. But there you go. meh!
I agree with your general point about the NHS accessing services immediately if they are available - but I don't know (do you?) what the NHS has to pay for those services. A registered charity and an insurance-funded 'not for profit' company maybe should have a role in health care provision to users of the NHS - they are not profit-led private sector organisations of the sort that now occupy large parts of the NHS.
I don't know enough about the French and German health care models to comment. I know you have been advocating the German approach on here for years. I understand that there are short waiting times for testing and treatments/surgery, but isn't it funded by additional health insurance payments on top of general tax contributions? Does that mean that health outcomes are partly dependent on ability to pay?
This was an interesting (and recent) reference:
https://www.william-russell.com/blog...hcare-systems/
Flipping heck
Nothing to see here
Move along
And what has this to do with the incompetence of how tax payers money has been spent in Wales ???
It shows that in England the health Secretary, newly elected , is not only presiding over a shit storm .......he's making money from it
Incompetent and bent
In my experience its the abilities of health trust managers who waste the huge amounts of resources and funding provided , no one ever talks about how ef
efficient those funds are allocated and performance managed , its so easy to default to the evil government funding somewhere there is a balance between funding and efficiency or is it easier to default to not manage the funding and moan about it going wrong 😳
And our own deffencies , if you think the funding in Wales is well managed you may want to examine it in more detail and there a lot of over paid trust management and waste going on , I don't think they are corrupt but one may consider them very inefficient with tax payers money . I have few friends in health and they don't have a good word to say about the over 80k pa plus managers, this post is not about Tories and you and John bitter hate, it's about our own A&E funded services, it's two different arguments.
In Germany you are given two options: pay into the state system or pay privately. Its either or, not a top up.
One is cheaper than the other when you're younger, but becomes more expensive as you get older. The split is about 77/23 the last time I checked, albeit a few years ago, on favour of public.
There is no stigma attached to using either, and all doctors and medical facilities are privately delivered, but funded by one of the above two methods.
It's an excellent system and provides more timely quality care (for all) than what we are used to in the UK.
Thats not knocking the NHS, I dont see why my BUPA cover can pay for a specialist tomorrow, but the NHS won't pay for the same specialist for 12 months or whatever
Undoubtedly A&E will always benefit from more funding but the real help that it needs are:
For GP’ surgeries to do more locally
It should only be used for those most in need.
My old dears GP surgery has been fantastic
In fact I would say the NHS have been fantastic all round
Social care however is completely fecked
I don't know about the original poster but most people who attack the Welsh NHS on here and in the media etc are fecking tory voters
So I always like it when things such as that little turd saeed making money on the back of the NHS in England are pointed out .....look what you could have won ! 🏆
Jeremy hunt , the stupid can't, Hancock and now saaed, all English health secretaries , all at it !
During that awful austerity program Wales was the only UK country not to sustain funding In fact spending fell and Drakeford was the Health Minister.
For decades NHS spending has never been a real priority for the Labour Party and WAG always seem to take from the NHS budget to save money.
Free prescriptions has never been proven to be a cost effective saving measure , however its a good voting tool .
Instead of wasting millions like the £100m of taxpayer money that has gone into CF failiing Airport and the £100m on the enquiry into the M4 relief road, why not fix NHS Wales .
I don't think WAG has the abilities to manage Health ,Education or Transport, they should never have been devolved.
There may well be corruption in Westminster, but my god there's boundless incompetencies in Welsh run Wales, which is equally corrupt in its nature to the people of Wales who suffer because of these faults and yes some die because of its incompetency.
Do you think health , education and transport are being managed well in England ?
Because I have friends in England who would love to pay what we pay for social care here in Wales
Social care in Wales is in the shit but it's funded as well as it can be by the Welsh government to ensure nobody pays above 100 quid per week for care .
What do you think my friends experiences are of care in England ?
What are the structural issues in your opinion?
My friend who is 35 and lives in Birmingham is currently crippled by Crohns can't get treatment so yeah there it's ****ed.
It's designed to be ****ed. Time is running out.
I will make a point that people (of all sides) might not like. Wales is a county of England when it comes to government spending. To pretend that they have real actionable choices is insane or deliberately misleading. There is a crystal clear aim to underfund healthcare in the UK, I don't even know what kind of evidence the people who deny that want to see anymore? It is a snowball going down a hill and we are becoming exponentially more ****ed as each day goes by.
The private care companies are waiting
We are the next United States
Fecked
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