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Why is it incredible though? How many people in this country have absolutely zero health conditions and aren’t overweight, don’t drink and don’t smoke? 18k of those people died because of Covid. Okay. What’s your point?Originally Posted by Cyclops
Someone with a pre existing heart condition who’s heart fails because of Covid shouldn’t count as a Covid death?
There have been 150k excess deaths and something has caused that massive increase. What is it?
Quite right.
A virus comes along and causes lots of deaths, even if the virus itself isn't the actual cause of death, but a factor. We get some cretins who are trying to suggest that, because it isn't the cause itself, that the other health issues are the main problem, not the virus. THESE PEOPLE WOULDN'T HAVE DIED IF COVID HADN'T EXISTED.
To put this into further perspective, according to the ONS, the total number of deaths in England and Wales in 2018 from influenza ALONE was 1,598. For 2019, the figure was 1,223.
The main point is being missed here.
There is a difference between deaths WITH Covid and deaths FROM Covid.
That knowledge should have been factored into how the authorities dealt with the situation.
Think about it.....
Are you suggesting that deaths from Covid are irrelevant when considering Deaths from Covid?
Huh?
What is being exposed here are the scaremongering tactics of governments.
Dr Campbell is demonstrating that there is a difference between dying FROM Covid than WITH Covid - in other words, deaths with "Covid" and deaths from "Covid" are completely different.
Therefore, the vaccination programme might have had target groups rather than attempting to jab everybody.
As a result of governments' propoganda, the general public, whether healthy or unhealthy, has been duped into a state of fear and panic about the effects of the pandemic and their responses to it have been devastating to the provision of surgical care. Many who have been monitoring excess deaths have suspected a skewing of the data but didn't have the last piece of the puzzle ie the low death rate from Covid alone.
There are sub-plots here. For example: 1) if this had been made plain, it might have encouraged those with co-morbidities that they could do something about (such as obesity) to address their condition. 2) The mental anguish induced by the blanket fear of contracting Covid might have been less severe among the healthy.
What should they have done?
The 'death with covid' figure isn't static and it would have gone up if there were a) more interaction within society and b) less people vaccinated. Also I don't know if it is apparent to everybody but the government of the UK was relatively light touch (they actually brag about it) and only really intervened when it looked possible that NHS bed figures could be breached, i.e. you weren't actually very 'locked down'.
'If people were told Covid was less serious then they might have lost some weight' is a particularly strange take, I can't even figure out how you get there.
I know a few people in their 30's and 40's who caught Covid and have seen not only a drawn out and quite debilitating initial illness but also longer term effects ranging from significant memory loss to breathing related. You might want to believe that the government scared people but I definitely saw quite a few peoples behaviour change once a close relative or friend got it bad, including mine (this was recently and I had become a bit relaxed/bored of the whole thing)
Two years in and people are still concentrating on deaths only.
If groups were vaccinated and not everyone, it would mean many more variants.
Your point 1 - people who are obese already know that it affects their health negatively. What are they going to do to "address their condition" in the short space of time that covid spreads?
And scaremongering tactics of governments? ALL governments simultaneously? To what purpose? How do they benefit?
Read what I actually wrote again.
What are you babbling about? The vaccination did have target groups. The oldest and most vulnerable were jabbed first, the rollout then carried on in descending age order and vulnerability.
What’s skewed the excess deaths? You’ve said they’re skewed but not said by what, you’ve (allegedly) got the last piece of the puzzle so you should know, no?
Instead of lockdown your strategy would be convince overweight people to exercise and lose weight? How long would you expect that to take? How would you deal with the people that don’t follow your advice? How would you deal with (assuming the majority did follow your advice) the increase in vulnerable people using gyms and increased interactions and risks of transmission?
This is 2020 conspiracy rubbish. Thankfully there's really not so much of it about any more, which is why this thread stands out.
The secret is: you make your mind up, look for a YouTube video to validate it and ignore anything else that provides evidence to the contrary.
Exactly, right from the start, there were a rump of people who refused to believe that Covid was the killer it has turned out to be (reading the early pages of the main Covid thread on here is very revealing in the cases of some contributors). In the last week, the UK has seen the highest number of Covid deaths in almost a year and still we get this pointless “with” or “from” Covid stuff - what does it matter? Over 150,000 people in this country have died in less than two years after catching Covid and, in every case, the virus was deemed to have played a part in the death - the UK’s figures are among the worst in Europe, I dread to think what they would have been like if we’d treated Covid as lightly as some on here said we should.
How is having a viewpoint on official ONS data a conspiracy. People are entitled to debate and question it without being closed down.
Every death from anything is tragic but the media should also give a balanced view to reassure the public. I hope there is a proper enquiry into this.
In other news, it has been discovered that the earth isn’t flat.
They're still deaths that wouldn't have happened had Covid not been here.
Jesus did I fall asleep and wake up in 2020? They literally announce deaths as "within 30 days of testing positive for Covid" - no one's trying to pretend that everybody who dies of Covid dies of Covid alone. Conspiracy garbage that was doing the rounds early on in the pandemic, what's next a 5g phone towers cause Covid thread?
How is having a viewpoint on official NASA figures of men on the moon a conspiracy?
This thread is a classic example of people who don’t really know what they’re talking about seizing upon numbers that suit their own views and sensationalising them without checking their validity.
Cyclops has highlighted the fact that there were ONLY 17,371 deaths from Covid-19 ALONE in England and Wales between 1/1/20 and 30/9/21.
For balance, I have just Googled deaths from influenza ALONE in England and Wales. According to the ONS (the same source as the Covid-19 figure quoted above), the combined total for 2017, 2018 and 2019 was just 3,279.
That total can be broken down as 458 in 2017, 1,598 in 2018 and 1,223 in 2019.
Of course, the totals for influenza AND pneumonia are much larger - 29,516 in 2018 and 26,398 in 2019. But the totals for influenza ALONE are relatively small and considerably smaller than the totals for Covid-19 ALONE.
I agree with what you say except the part i highlighted.
covid is mentioned on the death certificate if it is present because it is a reportable disease/condition and the doctor is obliged to record it. I think the point people are trying to make is that some of these people would have died anyway.
Agreed some would have died later but their underlying conditions would have got them in the end. The only way we will know this is if the figures begin to show less deaths than historically in the next year or so. we cannot tell that now.
The other point is the number of people taking into hospital to be treated for covid and those that are/were admitted for some other cause and were then 'incidentally' found to give a positive test result for covid. If they die it is still recorded as a covid death, which would seem unreasonable. The number of 'incidental' covid sufferers in hospitals at the moment is very relevant when looking at the threat from the new virus. most of those people didn't even know they had it and showed no symptoms.
It leads some people to think that the NHS or whoever is collating this information is deliberately attempting to make it as scary as possible to inflate the need for restrictions. (Oh sorry Mr Drakeford.... protections)
Most people that die in this country have underlying health issues, usually some form of organ failure. Then they catch a virus of some sort and their body isn't strong enough for them to recover. If a brick landed on your head from a great height and you died then the cause of death would be multiple head Injuries. The brick wouldn't get a mention on the death certificate. I'm confusing myself now.
This is gibberish.
How is it gibberish when the average age of death with Covid is seven weeks lower compared to the average deaths (82.5) in normal circumstances?
Around three-quarters of deaths involving COVID-19 linked to a record of a positive test result (79.2% in England, Public Health England data, 70.4% in Wales, Public Health Wales data).
Wow!
You KNOW this was my view before I saw the video.
That's uncanny!
As a matter of fact, I didn't have a view until yesterday.
Show me a post when I expressed that view.
You're whistling in the wind.
But you know best.
Just as you attempt to rubbish my books when you haven't read them.
And as regards checking the validity of what was revealed by Dr JC (a man with 2 million plus subscribers - some of whom post on here) I did check this and was satisfied on all counts.
You make yerself look foolish with these ungrounded assertions.
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