Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

You are crackers Eric. Someone on here saying it's legit to dislike people because of who they vote for I call them out on that, you then ramble on about god knows what.

Of course there are spectrums. Normal people think in spectrums and understand that. Bigots don't. They will use a binary determinant (race, ethnicity, religion, political party) and judge someone on that.

That you have to bring in white supremacy shows how weak the argument you are making is. I fully understand that people draw their line at different places. I get that, but if you draw the line that you would object to your son or daughter marrying a Tory or Labour voter then you are a bigot (and a fool) and bigotry isn't acceptable, end of. It's an arsehole thing to be.

That is how the world works unfortunately James. How many Jews marry Muslims? How many evangelical Christians marry atheists. Do you consider every religious person who deliberately chooses to marry within their faith a bigot? People divide along ideological lines. It isn't a massive shock to me that Britain has become this politically divided that political views are now as entrenched as religious views.

[JamesWales]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

That is how the world works unfortunately James. How many Jews marry Muslims? How many evangelical Christians marry atheists. Do you consider every religious person who deliberately chooses to marry within their faith a bigot? People divide along ideological lines. It isn't a massive shock to me that Britain has become this politically divided that political views are now as entrenched as religious views.

Yes, I know. And it's not a good thing and when it creeps in it should be challenged and called out. There are lots of bad things in the world, that alas is a given. Doing nothing about them is a bad thing.

Britain becoming a more politically sectarian country comes with wholly negative consequences which is why we should push against it. Debate - yes. Disagree - yes. Say you would be upset if your son was in love with and married a Tory or Labour or Remain or Leave voter? No chance!

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Looking at the definition of the word “Bigot” posted earlier in the thread, the Biblical term “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” springs to mind. Given the way I bang on about Johnson and his party on here, I’m a bigot based on that definition and, more than that, I’d say that the person who is accusing others of being one in this thread is one as well considering the way he, almost without fail, springs to the Government’s defence whenever they are criticised.

[JamesWales]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Looking at the definition of the word “Bigot” posted earlier in the thread, the Biblical term “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” springs to mind. Given the way I bang on about Johnson and his party on here, I’m a bigot based on that definition and, more than that, I’d say that the person who is accusing others of being one in this thread is one as well considering the way he, almost without fail, springs to the Government’s defence whenever they are criticised.

Yeah I don't think sometimes defending the government in a debate if I think someone has posted something that is wrong or I disagree with is quite the same as hating on someone for how they happen to vote in elections tbf.

That is a good bible quote though.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Yeah I don't think sometimes defending the government in a debate if I think someone has posted something that is wrong or I disagree with is quite the same as hating on someone for how they [B]happen[\b] to vote in elections tbf.

That is a good bible quote though.

Maybe that is one of the issues here, people attach very different levels of importance to politics. For some people it is life or death, for others it is basically just ticking a box every few years depending on how they feel that day.

[life on mars]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Maybe that is one of the issues here, people attach very different levels of importance to politics. For some people it is life or death, for others it is basically just ticking a box every few years depending on how they feel that day.

Think it also becomes very personal for them , due to their particular circumstances, and we should all consider and respect that I guess

[JamesWales]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Maybe that is one of the issues here, people attach very different levels of importance to politics. For some people it is life or death, for others it is basically just ticking a box every few years depending on how they feel that day.

Of course, and that goes without saying. Although the same goes for religion. That doesn't make judging or discriminating against someone on that basis acceptable, positive or progressive or a nice thing to do.

I love politics, but I respect all opinions and don't judge someones character on how they happen to vote - that's not right or fair.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Yeah I don't think sometimes defending the government in a debate if I think someone has posted something that is wrong or I disagree with is quite the same as hating on someone for how they happen to vote in elections tbf.

That is a good bible quote though.

If I think that definition describes me to an extent, I’m not sure why you should think it doesn’t describe yourself .By that definition, anyone who argues from a preset ideological or political position could be called a bigot - as in so many things, it’s a question of degree, I’d never considered myself, or you, a bigot before and, in truth, I don’t now, but that definition does sound a bit like me.

[delmbox]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Of course, and that goes without saying. Although the same goes for religion. That doesn't make judging or discriminating against someone on that basis acceptable, positive or progressive or a nice thing to do.

I love politics, but I respect all opinions and don't judge someones character on how they happen to vote - that's not right or fair.

I think this is what Eric was getting at with his black and white comment though, if you just say "I respect all opinions" you by definition respect the opinion of a white supremacist no? Or talking in political terms, say the BNP? And in your view if someone doesn't, or dislikes someone purely for their membership of the BNP does that make them a bigot?

[JamesWales]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

I think this is what Eric was getting at with his black and white comment though, if you just say "I respect all opinions" you by definition respect the opinion of a white supremacist no? Or talking in political terms, say the BNP? And in your view if someone doesn't, or dislikes someone purely for their membership of the BNP does that make them a bigot?

Yes, I understand that wider point, but we weren't talking about the BNP or white supremacists though. We were talking about a survey that referred to Labour, Tories, Remain and Leave voters, so that was a strawman argument.

The BNP and white supremacists DO discriminate based on peoples characteristics. To oppose that is fair enough (although I still wouldnt go so far as claiming every element of that person is bad) but that isn't the case with the parties or positions being discussed here.

Of course, some will seek to demonise views, as others seek to demonise religions, which is a part of the whole thought process of having bigoted opinions. But that doesn't make it so. If I don't want my son to marry a muslim because she's a muslim, I may well think it, but that doesn't make my opinion right, fair, just, moderate.

My point is that people who do judge on whether someone votes Labour, Tory, Leave, Remain etc are wrong to do so, and that they should be more open minded in their approach. I'm not saying it's as bad as other forms of bigotry but it's cut from the same cloth (in my opinion) and is a cause of just as much discord and hatred in the world as other forms of discrimination

They are free to disagree, but I think in the instances discussed it absolutely counts as bigotry.

And yeah, maybe people should moderate their language a little on all this. That more than anything is the point I am making, and will always make.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Yes, I understand that wider point, but we weren't talking about the BNP or white supremacists though. We were talking about a survey that referred to Labour, Tories, Remain and Leave voters, so that was a strawman argument.

The BNP and white supremacists DO discriminate based on peoples characteristics. To oppose that is fair enough (although I still wouldnt go so far as claiming every element of that person is bad) but that isn't the case with the parties or positions being discussed here.

Of course, some will seek to demonise views, as others seek to demonise religions, which is a part of the whole thought process of having bigoted opinions. But that doesn't make it so. If I don't want my son to marry a muslim because she's a muslim, I may well think it, but that doesn't make my opinion right, fair, just, moderate.

My point is that people who do judge on whether someone votes Labour, Tory, Leave, Remain etc are wrong to do so, and that they should be more open minded in their approach. I'm not saying it's as bad as other forms of bigotry but it's cut from the same cloth (in my opinion) and is a cause of just as much discord and hatred in the world as other forms of discrimination

They are free to disagree, but I think in the instances discussed it absolutely counts as bigotry.

And yeah, maybe people should moderate their language a little on all this. That more than anything is the point I am making, and will always make.

It isn't a straw man at all, I was trying to tease out exactly what delmbox says above. Essentially, do I need to be tolerant of every view along the spectrum to not be a bigot in your eyes or are you only referring to non-acceptance of those with 'moderate' views.

[Feedback]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

What? I don’t understand what your getting at. The only person I can remember posting “kill the Tories” is that poster called native hipster or something like that - a look at his posting history will tell you it is very unlikely that he’s being serious in saying that.

My post is quite clear - when someone posts "kill the tories", you believe they don't really mean it. I agree.

I do wonder if you extend a similar courtesy to those who post similar comments aimed at other groups.

[Feedback]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Eric
Do you think it's normal behaviour to ostracise family member based on who they support / the music they listen to / the party they vote for?

James
What would it take for you to accept Eric's view is as valid as your own ?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

My post is quite clear - when someone posts "kill the tories", you believe they don't really mean it. I agree.

I do wonder if you extend a similar courtesy to those who post similar comments aimed at other groups.

So you think I’d believe someone on here who said “kill the socialists”?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Tory MP hounded off campus for describing women as adult human females.

Eric
Do you think it's normal behaviour to ostracise family member based on who they support / the music they listen to / the party they vote for?

James
What would it take for you to accept Eric's view is as valid as your own ?

Me? I don't really have a view. It's probably quite normal but not likely to be a good thing.