Tories lose both by elections.

[JamesWales]

It could be argued that tactical votes should have gone to the opposition party that were second last time out and not to a party that was given little chance of winning the seat a while ago. Yes, it's clearly not 'Labour' country down here but I think the party still suffers from a major malaise away from its core areas of support.

I agree. I am actually surprised that Labour had done so well in the last 2 elections there, as it really isn't known as Labour territory. I do think despite that, and as has been proved, the Lib Dems did have the better chance of winning it, but like you say, it is curious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivert..._constituency)

[life on mars]

Labour has to strike an awkward balance on a number of issues and somehow shake away from that Metropolitan big inner city look, if they don't more results like like Tiverton and North Shropshire will move to the Liberals ..

Its worth bearing in mind you can get these types of protest votes , what voters do in By Elections , Council , Regionals , Mayor , Brexit elections can be very different in an General Elections , Liberals have been here before ...

I'm sure during the Blair run up Labour were very much far ahead of the Tories around this time of the election cycle ??

What each party lacks is an election campaigner like Johnson , lover or hate him he does have that knack for some reason he appeals and turns head either in anger or support , if he was walking down your high street for some bizarre reason folk would come out point , shout , cheer , have a selfie , can't see many doing that for Ed Davey or Kier ?? ...

[lardy]

Labour has to strike an awkward balance on a number of issues and somehow shake away from that Metropolitan big inner city look, if they don't more results like like Tiverton and North Shropshire will move to the Liberals ..

Its worth bearing in mind you can get these types of protest votes , what voters do in By Elections , Council , Regionals , Mayor , Brexit elections can be very different in an General Elections , Liberals have been here before ...

I'm sure during the Blair run up Labour were very much far ahead of the Tories around this time of the election cycle ??

What each party lacks is an election campaigner like Johnson , lover or hate him he does have that knack for some reason he appeals and turns head either in anger or support , if he was walking down your high street for some bizarre reason folk would come out point , shout , cheer , have a selfie , can't see many doing that for Ed Davey or Kier ?? ...

Johnson was booed in public a few weeks ago, as he walked in to the Queen's Platinum Jubilee ceremony.

I can't see him getting cheered in the high street at the moment, if he can't even make 10 seconds there.

[Packerman]

Labour has to strike an awkward balance on a number of issues and somehow shake away from that Metropolitan big inner city look, if they don't more results like like Tiverton and North Shropshire will move to the Liberals ..

Its worth bearing in mind you can get these types of protest votes , what voters do in By Elections , Council , Regionals , Mayor , Brexit elections can be very different in an General Elections , Liberals have been here before ...

I'm sure during the Blair run up Labour were very much far ahead of the Tories around this time of the election cycle ??

What each party lacks is an election campaigner like Johnson , lover or hate him he does have that knack for some reason he appeals and turns head either in anger or support , if he was walking down your high street for some bizarre reason folk would come out point , shout , cheer , have a selfie , can't see many doing that for Ed Davey or Kier ?? ...

Think most people in the majority of high streets would tell him he's a fat lying chancing charatan with no morals, shame or scruples tbh

[Eric Cartman]

There were massive campaigns to vote Labour in Wakefield and Lib Dem in Tiverton. All these results tell us is the people are sick of the Tories.

Exactly, there is some desperate reaching going on in this thread.

[HiVis]

I would have expected more than a 'token effort' in a by-election where Labour had 19.5% of the vote last time out.

maybe labour voters voted tactically here. I know of a few card carrying members who vote LibDem (despite it being against the rules) as its the only way to challenge the Tories.

[HiVis]

I don't think Labour will be overly unhappy at the Tiverton result. They will be cock a hoop that this is another mail in the Tory coffin. We are getting to the point where tactical voting doesn't need to be hugely coordinated for Tory deselection to happen.

I'm sure both Labour and the Lib Dems realise that at the present time tactical voting is the only way to unseat the Tories given the structure of the First Past The Post System. For both parties and the country as a whole to benefit they understand the priority is to remove the Tory government first.

just bear in mind that the last time the LibDems were king makers, they gave the Tories first crap at forming a government on the premise that the Tories had more seats and votes. For a change of government, Labour may have to have a majority

[jon1959]

There were massive campaigns to vote Labour in Wakefield and Lib Dem in Tiverton. All these results tell us is the people are sick of the Tories.

Exactly.

[Dorcus]

just bear in mind that the last time the LibDems were king makers, they gave the Tories first crap at forming a government on the premise that the Tories had more seats and votes. For a change of government, Labour may have to have a majority

I think the Lib Dems have learned the painful lesson that bed sharing with the Tories does them no good. I can't see them making the same mistake again in a hurry. They would find a centre left Labour party a much more natural fit.

[Dorcus]

Exactly.

Johnson and his motley crew surfed to Downing St. on the wave of Brexit mania nearly three years ago. That era has passed and seems aeons away now. He and his disciples look adrift in tumultuous seas. He's old hat now and for most people not up to the job.

[Wales-Bales]

Johnson and his motley crew surfed to Downing St. on the wave of Brexit mania nearly three years ago. That era has passed and seems aeons away now. He and his disciples look adrift in tumultuous seas. He's old hat now and for most people not up to the job.

Brexit was a con, sooner after it happened he was busy signing over powers to the UN and WHO. All planned no doubt, Boris is a globalist and he doesn't give a sh*t about the UK or the people in it.

[HiVis]

I think the Lib Dems have learned the painful lesson that bed sharing with the Tories does them no good. I can't see them making the same mistake again in a hurry. They would find a centre left Labour party a much more natural fit.

Labour were very much a centre left party in 2010 yet we know how that turned out. Power corrupts.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Labour were very much a centre left party in 2010 yet we know how that turned out. Power corrupts.

Clegg chose against propping up a tired government that had been in power for more than a decade and chose a Cameron-led party flirting with them on a centre right agenda.

The idea that the Lib-Dems would play power brokers in favour of this tired populist government in the event of a hung parliament is laughable. The Tories either get a a majority in the next election, they have enough DUPpers to keep them in power or they are out!

[Wales-Bales]

Clegg chose against propping up a tired government that had been in power for more than a decade and chose a Cameron-led party flirting with them on a centre right agenda.

And now Clegg is at Facebook pushing a specific agenda, which tells you everything you need to know.

[the other bob wilson]

Clegg chose against propping up a tired government that had been in power for more than a decade and chose a Cameron-led party flirting with them on a centre right agenda.

The idea that the Lib-Dems would play power brokers in favour of this tired populist government in the event of a hung parliament is laughable. The Tories either get a a majority in the next election, they have enough DUPpers to keep them in power or they are out!

The Tories were the biggest party as well in 2010 - wouldn’t be surprised if the DUP lose seats in the next election.

[cyril evans awaydays]

And now Clegg is at Facebook pushing a specific agenda, which tells you everything you need to know.

Bit vague. What is the specific agenda that tells me everything I need to know?

[HiVis]

Clegg chose against propping up a tired government that had been in power for more than a decade and chose a Cameron-led party flirting with them on a centre right agenda.

The idea that the Lib-Dems would play power brokers in favour of this tired populist government in the event of a hung parliament is laughable. The Tories either get a a majority in the next election, they have enough DUPpers to keep them in power or they are out!

This is a good point and you may well be right. In 2010 I was surprised as anyone as I always thought the LibDems were centre left so it struck me as being bizarre they'd choose a centre right party over another centre left. Their rationale at the time was that the Tories had more seats than Labour so the people wanted Tories more than Labour. I don't think that's what their supporters wanted though but who cares as long as you get to be in power

[Wales-Bales]

This is a good point and you may well be right. In 2010 I was surprised as anyone as I always thought the LibDems were centre left so it struck me as being bizarre they'd choose a centre right party over another centre left. Their rationale at the time was that the Tories had more seats than Labour so the people wanted Tories more than Labour. I don't think that's what their supporters wanted though but who cares as long as you get to be in power

David Miliband, Clegg, Johnson & Starmer are all batting for the same team, so don't get confused by the party colours.

[cyril evans awaydays]

David Miliband, Clegg, Johnson & Starmer are all batting for the same team, so don't get confused by the party colours.

This comes over as vague and smarmy in a thread where the majority of contributors are having a sensible debate. Perhaps you could explain your point in ways that other contributors could discuss on its merits or get off the pot.

[Wales-Bales]

This comes over as vague and smarmy in a thread where the majority of contributors are having a sensible debate. Perhaps you could explain your point in ways that other contributors could discuss on its merits or get off the pot.

I like the way you always pretend not to know stuff.

[TWGL1]

078B6685-5009-4BE8-BBAC-D81D850F1A99.jpg

[Packerman]

This comes over as vague and smarmy in a thread where the majority of contributors are having a sensible debate. Perhaps you could explain your point in ways that other contributors could discuss on its merits or get off the pot.

TBF Gluey has made vague and smarmy his default mannerism not seen him give a straight answer in 5 years (4 counting his year long sulk )