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Thread: WFH

  1. #26

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    A few years ago, you were trying to find someone to take over your round when you went on holiday. You were offering just 50% of the invoice as, I think you said, it's your van, your tools and you like making money.

    Perhaps you were sat in the sun at Disney Land, having a bud light and laughing that you were getting paid? Human nature after all.

    Who cares if they're making their working day more pleasant? Enjoying the sunshine instead of being stuck in the office for most of the daylight hours? Good for them.
    you might have missed the point, these people are logged on and taking the piss, not exactly the same as me offering someone 5 ( and a bit ) weeks work

  2. #27

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by TWGL1 View Post
    These kind of people probably skived in the office environment as well , like you say , always happened
    indeed as I said "always happened, always will" but I guess its slightly easier at home

  3. #28

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by blue matt View Post
    you might have missed the point, these people are logged on and taking the piss, not exactly the same as me offering someone 5 ( and a bit ) weeks work
    Didn't realise you were trying to pull the 50% deal for that long.

    That's definitely not taking the piss

  4. #29

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by lardy View Post
    Didn't realise you were trying to pull the 50% deal for that long.

    That's definitely not taking the piss
    you are defiantly trying to miss the point now you must be getting desperate

    I offer someone some work, we agree the price, both parties are happy with the price, work gets completed, I pay person the money we agreed ( when I am paid ), everyone is happy and the person who did it was very happy with the arrangement and has done it again ( in fact I had 2 people from here who were happy to take the deal aswell )

    V's

    Someone getting paid to work 8 hours a day ( while logged in at home ) being sat in the garden taking the piss pretending they are still sat the the PC doing work

  5. #30

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by fingers View Post
    The business I work for has struggled in telling people who are off sick to NOT WORK from home, but they won't listen. Three people off with Covid at the moment and still answering and writing emails!
    My Brother collapsed 2 weeks ago, blue lighted to hospital and in over the weekend, Monday morning rolls around and he is back working from his hospital bed, spent 5 hours answering emails and making phone calls

    workers work

  6. #31

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    two things really. Firstly a lack of human interaction can cause mental health problems in itself. Secondly, if mental health problems evolve through other means they can be exacerbated by a lack of interaction at work; ie, being sat at home with your thoughts all day on your own, instead of being around people etc.

    I genuinely think it is laying foundations for a very serious mental health crisis long term, especially amongst younger people.
    Don’t people get most of their human interaction from friends? Is there not more chance that the pandemic and lockdown are more to blame for mental health problems caused by lack of interactions?

    Working from home let’s me see the people I want to see more not less.

  7. #32

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by fingers View Post
    The business I work for has struggled in telling people who are off sick to NOT WORK from home, but they won't listen. Three people off with Covid at the moment and still answering and writing emails!
    They must be really ill then

  8. #33

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    My employer has said WFH is here to stay for us but find some members of staff are taking the mick and not pulling their weight leading others to work harder and longer hours.

    Can't see this lasting forever
    It is here to stay.

    Those companies who oppose it will very quickly die off.

  9. #34
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    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I wish some would accept that certain working conditions suit different people.

    Mrs HaB works 3 days a week and does 2 from home. She saves 2 days' rail fare and gains 5 hours a werk that would have been wasted commuting. If she needs to work late it's not a problem, whereas working late in the office creates problems with her being home late. If times are busy she has voluntarily worked extra on a day off to clear a backlog, without pay, something she wouldn't do if she had to pay and commute for the privilige. She doesn't have to be pleasant with workers she wouldn't normally bother with. She doesn't have to do lunch or bother with office parties that she hates. She has some flexibility as well, for example on Wednesday it is my son's sports day. She can go for an hour if she's working from home and make up the time. She'd have to take a morning off otherwise.


    Agreed a hybrid model is best for most people.

    I've worked both office based and home based jobs for years, if you're home you can work three long days rather than five or you can work straight away at six in the morning in the summer and enjoy an early finish, later start in the winter, pinch a Friday off whatever you want.

    As long as the works done to a good standard why should anyone mind?

    I think there is a bit of jealousy from those that can’t work from home or find it hard too, don’t worry about what other people do, just worry about yourself and what you can influence and control

  10. #35
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    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by WJ99mobile View Post
    My employer has said WFH is here to stay for us but find some members of staff are taking the mick and not pulling their weight leading others to work harder and longer hours.

    Can't see this lasting forever
    Your employer will just need to get a good Management and checking structure in place, some won't have the self discipline so may need to be pushed to work or leave, as people have said you'll always good get workers and lazy people.

  11. #36

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    It's not better for the environment. UK energy demand went up for the first time in a decade during covid and WFH. How you commute is of course the issue; cars are worse than trains which are worse than walking or cycling. We have seen a significant decline in public transport infrastuture and a rise in energy use. It's hard to argue it's positive.

    In short, 100 people in one large lit and heated room is MUCH better for the environment than 100 people in individually lit and heated houses.
    https://grid.iamkate.com/

    Big debate over productivity. Either way, loads of issues irrespective of WFH
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...hours%20worked.

    Companies save on office space but pay out in other areas; equiping everyones home, mobile phones, long term lack of creative development etc.

    Some interesting bits here: https://www.europeanbusinessreview.eu/page.asp?pid=4793

    All of this can be disputed, but i think 100% WFH is very damaging.
    The mental health thing is going to affect different people in different ways. I am a single guy living on my own 10 minutes walk from work. It probably puts me firmly in the category of 'lose lots, gains little' when it comes to WFH but I still prefer it.

    I can't imagine somebody who was commuting 2 hours through London twice a day, leaving the house at 6.15 and getting in at 7.45 at night, seeing their kids for a few minutes before bed and thoroughly nackered the rest of the time they are home, would see WFH as 'damaging to their mental health'.

  12. #37

    Re: WFH

    I think in the long term this issue will prove to be as divisive as Brexit and Lockdown.

  13. #38

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
    The mental health thing is going to affect different people in different ways. I am a single guy living on my own 10 minutes walk from work. It probably puts me firmly in the category of 'lose lots, gains little' when it comes to WFH but I still prefer it.

    I can't imagine somebody who was commuting 2 hours through London twice a day, leaving the house at 6.15 and getting in at 7.45 at night, seeing their kids for a few minutes before bed and thoroughly nackered the rest of the time they are home, would see WFH as 'damaging to their mental health'.
    I agree, it does affect different people in different ways, though I think it is the already vulnerable or those in less suitable home surroundings who are more at risk. There is a lot of bad stuff that goes on behind closed doors and for many, work is an escape from that.

    I just think people need to be very cautious on all this and whilst 100% office working isn't usually necessary, 100% home working can cause grave issues professionally and personally. I think it's been a total nightmare for both and things are generally much harder - simple tasks take much longer, understanding of issues is far less and generally people don't know what eachother are doing.

    Commuting is of course the biggest issue. Personally I enjoy a modest commute and choose to live where I live because of the train and bus links and I enjoy a walk home, with time to think and process the day and seperating home and work is important. I know a lot of people who have just entered a general malaise about it all, some who have embraced it positively and some who really have seen significant mental health declines.

    Personally I'm just a firm believer in the democratic nature of offices and of humans interacting and mixing more as opposed to less and thats the big issue for me; I think it is creating conditions where many negative things can flourish that previously were less likely to occur.

  14. #39

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    Absolutely. Some people doing very little. Some people working all hours, sending emails on sunday afternoons and past 10pm at night. This never happened to that extent in offices; it was much easier to accurately allocate work.

    It's reason number 8 to oppose mass WFH.
    I haven't worked for many years but when I did work in the 90's when laptops were becoming more and more popular I I know there were quite a few in my office who used to work all hours sending Emails at alltimes of day

    Given how much more widespread the use of laptops has become in the first 20 years of this century I'm sure such practices became far more widespread even before peoples habits changed because of Covid.

  15. #40

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    I agree, it does affect different people in different ways, though I think it is the already vulnerable or those in less suitable home surroundings who are more at risk. There is a lot of bad stuff that goes on behind closed doors and for many, work is an escape from that.

    I just think people need to be very cautious on all this and whilst 100% office working isn't usually necessary, 100% home working can cause grave issues professionally and personally. I think it's been a total nightmare for both and things are generally much harder - simple tasks take much longer, understanding of issues is far less and generally people don't know what eachother are doing.

    Commuting is of course the biggest issue. Personally I enjoy a modest commute and choose to live where I live because of the train and bus links and I enjoy a walk home, with time to think and process the day and seperating home and work is important. I know a lot of people who have just entered a general malaise about it all, some who have embraced it positively and some who really have seen significant mental health declines.

    Personally I'm just a firm believer in the democratic nature of offices and of humans interacting and mixing more as opposed to less and thats the big issue for me; I think it is creating conditions where many negative things can flourish that previously were less likely to occur.
    very few places are mandatory 100% home working.
    almost everyone I know is back in the office at least some of the time and most can go back ,100% if they want.

  16. #41

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue View Post
    Agreed a hybrid model is best for most people.

    I've worked both office based and home based jobs for years, if you're home you can work three long days rather than five or you can work straight away at six in the morning in the summer and enjoy an early finish, later start in the winter, pinch a Friday off whatever you want.

    As long as the works done to a good standard why should anyone mind?

    I think there is a bit of jealousy from those that can’t work from home or find it hard too, don’t worry about what other people do, just worry about yourself and what you can influence and control
    Hybrid works well for me.
    2 days home on monday and friday with 3 at the office in between is perfect for me really.

    WFH and Hybrid casts the net a lot further when it comes to recruitment and getting talent in from other areas where a 5 days at the office commute wouldn’t be possible.

  17. #42

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesWales View Post
    I think it's been a total nightmare for both and things are generally much harder - simple tasks take much longer, understanding of issues is far less and generally people don't know what eachother are doing.
    That's not a WFH issue. My team is spread out across three continents and multiple time zones, and we serve internal stakeholders all over the globe. With the right tools, defined workflow processes, and proactive management, none of those things should be a problem. Although, of course, I do understand that various industries operate differently.

    At the end of the day, we all have different priorities and needs. What doesn't work for you is a godsend for some, and vice versa.

    For what it's worth, I get to pick my son up from school every day. The hour I would have otherwise spent in traffic now allows me to go for a walk every night instead. I can work from home, from cafes, from my parents house back in the UK... my life is so much more flexible than it was before. I don't see how any of those things are detrimental to my mental health.

  18. #43

    Re: WFH

    If you aren’t pulling your wait at home, surely it will catch up with you clearly enough when the boss does their job and monitors what’s going on?

  19. #44

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Blue View Post
    If you aren’t pulling your wait at home, surely it will catch up with you clearly enough when the boss does their job and monitors what’s going on?
    Yeah, I don't know who these people are that are just lounging around all day.

    If anything, WFH means it's harder to find the end point of your working day or get a proper lunch.

  20. #45

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    I wish some would accept that certain working conditions suit different people.

    Mrs HaB works 3 days a week and does 2 from home. She saves 2 days' rail fare and gains 5 hours a werk that would have been wasted commuting. If she needs to work late it's not a problem, whereas working late in the office creates problems with her being home late. If times are busy she has voluntarily worked extra on a day off to clear a backlog, without pay, something she wouldn't do if she had to pay and commute for the privilige. She doesn't have to be pleasant with workers she wouldn't normally bother with. She doesn't have to do lunch or bother with office parties that she hates. She has some flexibility as well, for example on Wednesday it is my son's sports day. She can go for an hour if she's working from home and make up the time. She'd have to take a morning off otherwise.
    Just to say that the bit about voluntarily working without pay on what should have been a day off struck a chord with me, I'm not saying it happened very often with me, but there was the occasional Saturday or Sunday morning, or booked day's leave where I would work for an hour or two early in the morning without pay if the office was busy - if there are two of us who did that, then you have to think that there are plenty of others around the country who'd do the same from time to time. It's human nature to concentrate on the bad apples that take advantage of something, but I've always thought that there are more who would not abuse something like home working.

  21. #46

    Re: WFH

    Our work wants us to do 2-3 days a week or more if you wish in the office with one of them being a “team day”. They seem keen on it and really pushing the positive feedback but the vast majority of staff would prefer to do 1 day team day. We are only a small team so I get the team day but the other day seems pointless, quite often sitting on my own in a big office or with one colleague.

  22. #47

    Re: WFH

    Massive implications for outlets (food, drink etc) in commercial areas. People going out to work keep the wheels turning not just of their workplace but of society as a whole. It’s a dilemma that does need solving, could lead to ghost towns.

  23. #48

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    Massive implications for outlets (food, drink etc) in commercial areas. People going out to work keep the wheels turning not just of their workplace but of society as a whole. It’s a dilemma that does need solving, could lead to ghost towns.
    And? Forcing people back to work full time so they can spend more of their time commuting and money on keeping a sandwich shop going isn't going to be an easy sell.

  24. #49

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee View Post
    And? Forcing people back to work full time so they can spend more of their time commuting and money on keeping a sandwich shop going isn't going to be an easy sell.
    Rather a strong word ‘forcing’. The collapse of small shops/businesses is a sad thing, it’s something that’s happened before in mining communities, areas around, now closed, steelworks etc. Shouldn’t these people be taken into consideration?

  25. #50

    Re: WFH

    Quote Originally Posted by splott parker View Post
    Massive implications for outlets (food, drink etc) in commercial areas. People going out to work keep the wheels turning not just of their workplace but of society as a whole. It’s a dilemma that does need solving, could lead to ghost towns.
    And what about all the businesses in suburban high streets like Rhiwbina, Whitchurch, Llanishen, Canton, Roath, etc and the likes of Albany Road, City Road and Cowbridge Road East? They certainly seem busier now on a weekday during working hours than they were pre Covid. I’d prefer to see the likes of Pret, Costa, Starbucks, etc suffer than the smaller, local places that make up the suburban high streets.

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