Project fear was right all along.

[JamesWales]

Indeed. Curious that James "Philomena Cunk" Wales is notably absent.

Sorry, it was Sunday afternoon, I was out walking instead of stalking the posts of CCMB and you expected me to post within 90 minutes!?

I’m not changing an opinion due to one Daily Telegraph opinion piece.

'Project fear’ which of course consisted of a myriad of different themes, but is perhaps most solidly demonstrated in the statements made by the chancellor in the weeks before the referendum, which included a huge rise in unemployment, a recession, a house price collapse, stock market collapse etc, just for voting to leave. None of that happened.

Now it can be strongly argued that Brexit hasn't helped matters, that may be true, but two months after leaving a global pandemic hit. As that was winding down, a war between Europes two largest countries erupted. That impacts upon things.

Notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks, which are of course nothing to do with a referendum from 2016, can you name a comparable European country that isn't experiencing more-or-less the exact same problems we are?

Name a country.

[the other bob wilson]

Sorry, it was Sunday afternoon, I was out walking instead of stalking the posts of CCMB and you expected me to post within 90 minutes!?

I’m not changing an opinion due to one Daily Telegraph opinion piece.

'Project fear’ which of course consisted of a myriad of different themes, but is perhaps most solidly demonstrated in the statements made by the chancellor in the weeks before the referendum, which included a huge rise in unemployment, a recession, a house price collapse, stock market collapse etc, just for voting to leave. None of that happened.

Now it can be strongly argued that Brexit hasn't helped matters, that may be true, but two months after leaving a global pandemic hit. As that was winding down, a war between Europes two largest countries erupted. That impacts upon things.

Notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks, which are of course nothing to do with a referendum from 2016, can you name a comparable European country that isn't experiencing more-or-less the exact same problems we are?

Name a country.

iI'll start trying to name some when you start listing other countries that have had their knuckles rapped in the past month by the IMF for their fiscal policies - making out that we're no different from anyone else simply isn't true.

[JamesWales]

iI'll start trying to name some when you start listing other countries that have had their knuckles rapped in the past month by the IMF for their fiscal policies - making out that we're no different from anyone else simply isn't true.

I've quite clearly stated there.. "notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks". The mini budget (or at least it's delivery and some of its content) was clearly a grave error, but nothing to do with Brexit. Thats what this thread is about, no?

Again, can anyone name a comparable European country not undergoing more or less the same problems as the UK at the moment?

[HyperboreanCCFC]

So we have a trade deal with the Americans?

Brexit and the current tories are the last tantrum of a generation that can't handle a world that wants more equality and improvement in life quality for all. Those who ingested lead paint as kids have done their best to make the lives of generations that come after them more difficult.

We're in talks with the Americans. Are you genuinely saying with a straight face that we are "at the back of the queue"? 😆

[lardy]

We're in talks with the Americans. Are you genuinely saying with a straight face that we are "at the back of the queue"? ��

Liz Truss on 20 September:

"There aren't currently any negotiations taking place with the US and I don't have an expectation that those are going to start in the short to medium term."

[HyperboreanCCFC]

Sterling losing nearly 20% of it's value against the euro since brexit is catastrophic, living standards for middle and lower income families falling to lower levels than any other Northern European economy is catastrophic, a government debt trajectory that could unless there are swingeing public sector cuts lead to an imf bailout is catastrophic, the only country forced to restart QE to buy its own debt, business supply chains totally ducked due to to red tape, customs and border delays. The list goes on and on. What happened to substance FDI into Wales? It used to be a thing once you know, unsurprisingly this seems to have all but vanished as we can no longer compete with our neighbours due our inability to provide a frictionless trading environment with Europe.

😆
How much of the 20% loss occured after Lizz Truss plan? Which has nothing to do with Brexit.
Do you have evidence that the middle class now have the lowest standard of living in Northern Europe?
If an IMF bailout occurs it will down to Lizz Truss audacious attempt to stimulate growth with uncosted tax cuts. Nothing to do with Brexit yer numpty 😆

QE resuming was again a response to Lizz Truss economic policy. Supply chains are not "totally ducked" at all. Why are you lying to yourself like this?

What is the FDI into Wales?

[HyperboreanCCFC]

Liz Truss on 20 September:

"There aren't currently any negotiations taking place with the US and I don't have an expectation that those are going to start in the short to medium term."

That doesn't mean we're "at the back of the queue" we could still be at the front of the queue. Where is your evidence we are at the back of the queue behind countries in Africa...?

[lardy]

That doesn't mean we're "at the back of the queue" we could still be at the front of the queue. Where is your evidence we are at the back of the queue behind countries in Africa...?

I haven't said we are at the back of the queue. You need to look on the left of your screen to see who has responded to you.

You said "We're in talks with the Americans." The PM says we're not and won't be starting any time soon.

So where is your evidence that "We're in talks with the Americans"?

[the other bob wilson]

I've quite clearly stated there.. "notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks". The mini budget (or at least it's delivery and some of its content) was clearly a grave error, but nothing to do with Brexit. Thats what this thread is about, no?

Again, can anyone name a comparable European country not undergoing more or less the same problems as the UK at the moment?

Well, I thought you’d done your normal taking charge thing and made it into another thread where you lecture us about how we’re no worse off than France, Germany etc. I merely pointed out that the IMF, and the US President it seems, believes that we are a stand out example of woeful financial management and you cannot just dismiss what you call “grave errors” as if they don’t count somehow.like you’re trying to do with your use of the word “notwithstanding”.

It’s not critics on here that the you need to convince that you are still right about Brexit, it’s a writer at that Brexit cheerleader the Dailty telegraph. However, seeing as you ask, wouldn’t you have thought that getting towards six and a half years after the vote, here would be some stand out event, policy or agreement that Brexiteers could point to and say this has brought lasting, unarguable benefit to everyone in the UK? I can’t think of anything which fits that bill.

[Wales-Bales]

The pound is back to where it was, so obviously nothing to do with project fear, more like project hate.

[JamesWales]

Well, I thought you’d done your normal taking charge thing and made it into another thread where you lecture us about how we’re no worse off than France, Germany etc. I merely pointed out that the IMF, and the US President it seems, believes that we are a stand out example of woeful financial management and you cannot just dismiss what you call “grave errors” as if they don’t count somehow.like you’re trying to do with your use of the word “notwithstanding”.

It’s not critics on here that the you need to convince that you are still right about Brexit, it’s a writer at that Brexit cheerleader the Dailty telegraph. However, seeing as you ask, wouldn’t you have thought that getting towards six and a half years after the vote, here would be some stand out event, policy or agreement that Brexiteers could point to and say this has brought lasting, unarguable benefit to everyone in the UK? I can’t think of anything which fits that bill.

You often do this - A thread deviates from your desired direction and you claim there's some kind of mischief at play. I don't lecture anyone Bob, I merely respond to your posts and try and back up my arguments with evidence. Maybe read some of your posts from my position, and see how they sound? It's not lecturing, it's how forums are supposed to work, no? I think it's more fun than just coming on and agreeing with everything you say. We are all grown ups. You say xyz is because of Brexit, I'm saying, if so, show me why this is also happening to countries that havent left the EU. It's not a hard question.

In terms of Brexit, as I said, two months after leaving we had a global pandemic followed by a war in Europe. No countries outlook looks better now than it did three years ago. The potential global trade benefits of Brexit were clearly curtailed by the global economy almost shutting down, and any benefits in terms of wage growth (which is up) is taken out by inflation impacting us all.

The big story since we left of course was the pandemic. Ursula Von Der Leyen herself, did say the UK is like a speedboat compared to the EU tanker, when it came to vaccines. So you can start your list with that?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...boat-eu-tanker

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

You often do this - A thread deviates from your desired direction and you claim there's some kind of mischief at play. I don't lecture anyone Bob, I merely respond to your posts and try and back up my arguments with evidence. Maybe read some of your posts from my position, and see how they sound? It's not lecturing, it's how forums are supposed to work, no? I think it's more fun than just coming on and agreeing with everything you say. We are all grown ups. You say xyz is because of Brexit, I'm saying, if so, show me why this is also happening to countries that havent left the EU. It's not a hard question.

In terms of Brexit, as I said, two months after leaving we had a global pandemic followed by a war in Europe. No countries outlook looks better now than it did three years ago. The potential global trade benefits of Brexit were clearly curtailed by the global economy almost shutting down, and any benefits in terms of wage growth (which is up) is taken out by inflation impacting us all.

The big story since we left of course was the pandemic. Ursula Von Der Leyen herself, did say the UK is like a speedboat compared to the EU tanker, when it came to vaccines. So you can start your list with that?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...boat-eu-tanker

I think after your exile from here the last few days ......gosh knows why .....your input is no longer relevant .

You have clearly been preparing your speech but it's the words of a beaten man supporting a hopeless government .

You have been nailed .

The verbosity King is dead .

Onwards !

[JamesWales]

I think after your exile from here the last few days ......gosh knows why .....your input is no longer relevant .

You have clearly been preparing your speech but it's the words of a beaten man supporting a hopeless government .

You have been nailed .

The verbosity King is dead .

Onwards !

Verbosity, moi!?

Talking of writing too much, only one word is needed to answer my question..just one word. Any comparable European country. There's several to choose from. If they are all experiencing severe economic issues at the moment and they have not left the EU, that would rather suggest that the cause of the issue is not as this thread implies.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Verbosity, moi!?

Talking of writing too much, only one word is needed to answer my question..just one word. Any comparable European country. There's several to choose from. If they are all experiencing severe economic issues at the moment and they have not left the EU, that would rather suggest that the cause of the issue is not as this thread implies.

I have no idea what the question was Jim

I was just waiting for you to come in from the
shed of broken dreams

[the other bob wilson]

I’ll always give the UK Government credit for their vaccine roll out, but, surely, you should look at the pandemic as a whole and the UK was weak on things like track and trace, PPEs and cronyism. France and Germany have both had in the region of 10 million more cases than us, but our total deaths and deaths per million figures are higher than them.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Therefore, if you are wanting to take the pandemic as a whole, it seems to me that the EU countries you seem eager to compare us with outperformed Brexit Britain.

[Doucas]

'UK GDP is 5.2 per cent smaller than the modelled,*doppelgänger*UK; investment is 13.7 per cent lower; and goods trade, 13.6 per cent lower'

https://www.cer.org.uk/publications/...-brexit-so-far

This is absolutely damning and the usual suspects have their head in the sand.

Speak to any business owner who exports or imports from the EU and ask if brexit has improved things for them. My family has a business that imports food from abroad and its been an absolute nightmare.

There is no point even talking to brexiters or tories now. Their mental takes need to just be ignored while the adults in the room fix their mistakes.

[Citizen's Nephew]

'UK GDP is 5.2 per cent smaller than the modelled,*doppelgänger*UK; investment is 13.7 per cent lower; and goods trade, 13.6 per cent lower'

https://www.cer.org.uk/publications/...-brexit-so-far

This is absolutely damning and the usual suspects have their head in the sand.

Speak to any business owner who exports or imports from the EU and ask if brexit has improved things for them. My family has a business that imports food from abroad and its been an absolute nightmare.

There is no point even talking to brexiters or tories now. Their mental takes need to just be ignored while the adults in the room fix their mistakes.

100% it doesn’t matter how many real world examples you give it’s just constant denial or whataboutery.

[HyperboreanCCFC]

I haven't said we are at the back of the queue. You need to look on the left of your screen to see who has responded to you.

You said "We're in talks with the Americans." The PM says we're not and won't be starting any time soon.

So where is your evidence that "We're in talks with the Americans"?

The topic and point i responded to was the lies told by remain. I think you need to look at the threads you're responding to. we have been in talks with America and we're not at the back of the queue. Any suggestion of this is palpable nonesense from remainers who can't accept the result of a democratic vote. When Obama said we'd be at the back of the queue, it was a feeble attempt to scare gullible voters and interfere with the democratic process by the president of a foriegn country. We are not at the back of the queue and never were at the back of the queue. America is one of our closest allies ffs 😆 that's me out of our conversation, as i find the whole thing too stupid for words

[superfeathers]

The topic and point i responded to was the lies told by remain. I think you need to look at the threads you're responding to. we have been in talks with America and we're not at the back of the queue. Any suggestion of this is palpable nonesense from remainers who can't accept the result of a democratic vote. When Obama said we'd be at the back of the queue, it was a feeble attempt to scare gullible voters and interfere with the democratic process by the president of a foriegn country. We are not at the back of the queue and never were at the back of the queue. America is one of our closest allies ffs 😆 that's me out of our conversation, as i find the whole thing too stupid for words

Just to settle this one, there isn't a queue, the U.S. aren't interested in a deal, and the UK would have to drop standards that would mean we'd lose trade with Europe.

So you're both right, we're neither at the back nor at the front because there is no prospect of getting a deal and the UK isn't seeking it.

[HyperboreanCCFC]

Just to settle this one, there isn't a queue, the U.S. aren't interested in a deal, and the UK would have to drop standards that would mean we'd lose trade with Europe.

So you're both right, we're neither at the back nor at the front because there is no prospect of getting a deal and the UK isn't seeking it.

If there isn't a queue, Obama(leader of the most powerful country in the world) was lying to British voters during an election campaign. Remainers not bothered so much by that for some bizarre reason
The Americans would love a deal with one of it's closest allies and 5th biggest economy in the world.

[lardy]

The topic and point i responded to was the lies told by remain. I think you need to look at the threads you're responding to. we have been in talks with America and we're not at the back of the queue. Any suggestion of this is palpable nonesense from remainers who can't accept the result of a democratic vote. When Obama said we'd be at the back of the queue, it was a feeble attempt to scare gullible voters and interfere with the democratic process by the president of a foriegn country. We are not at the back of the queue and never were at the back of the queue. America is one of our closest allies ffs �� that's me out of our conversation, as i find the whole thing too stupid for words

So no evidence that we're in talks with the Americans.

Agreed, it was a stupid conversation and you're right to back out of it.

[HyperboreanCCFC]

So no evidence that we're in talks with the Americans.

Agreed, it was a stupid conversation and you're right to back out of it.

Well done for missing the point of whether project fear was right. Some feat that

[the other bob wilson]

I’d say project fear was almost as much bollox as the Leave campaign, but it’s the Daily Telegraph, or one of its writers at least, who is saying it was right all along.

[Delbert]

I've quite clearly stated there.. "notwithstanding the chaos of the last few weeks". The mini budget (or at least it's delivery and some of its content) was clearly a grave error, but nothing to do with Brexit. Thats what this thread is about, no?

Again, can anyone name a comparable European country not undergoing more or less the same problems as the UK at the moment?

So the right wing libertarians who funded Brexit are nothing to do with the right wing libertarians who wrote Kwarteng’s Trussonomics budget which had nothing to do with the chaos of the last few weeks and the crashing of the UK economy?

If any good comes from this fiasco it will be that these people and all their backers in the right wing press and think tanks and hedge funds are never listened to again.

[Dorcus]

So the right wing libertarians who funded Brexit are nothing to do with the right wing libertarians who wrote Kwarteng’s Trussonomics budget which had nothing to do with the chaos of the last few weeks and the crashing of the UK economy?

If any good comes from this fiasco it will be that these people and all their backers in the right wing press and think tanks and hedge funds are never listened to again.

Hear hear