FT: WALES 0 - 2 IRAN. Match thread

[llan bluebird]

Sometimes the manager needs to help them out and not start them. Players are the last to know their time is up.

[Rjk]

Page isn't the person to rebuild us. This needs the type of overhaul Tosh did post Hughes.

yes, as soon as teams pick people on reputation instead of current ability they are in big trouble. we've seen as such with England and certain club sodes many times previously.
it is completely understandable that we stuck with these guys in this tournament, but in the future we will need to move on unless they can earn their place again

[Don Corleone]

100% agree with you.

I agree too, very disappointing today but Bale and Ramsey have given us great times following Wales in the last 10 years . We gave the ball away way too much and were very poor in the middle of the pitch but Iran were good and deserved the win

[the other bob wilson]

Your devotion to Ampadu is touching, but, after being our best player on Monday, he was as poor as anyone today. He’s been asked to virtually carry our midfield because you might be able to just about get by with players from Portsmouth, Dundee United and MK Dons in our midfield in the Euros, but the World Cup is clearly a step further.

[superfeathers]

Absolutely devastated.

This group was a kind one for us, so it’s very disappointing.

Fair play to Iran they absolutely deserved the result.

Unfortunately, we had too many players for this tournament not match fit. I think for what he brings in the dressing room, set pieces and his moments of magic that change games you can carry Bale, but not Rambo anymore. I love the guy but his future is an impact sub unless he retires.

They both have given more than they’ve taken and credit to wales for being there, but this tournament is such a disappointment.

Until we beat England of course!

[Barmy]

They certainly have been poor, but not the only two. Only Kieffer Moore and Ben Davies can come out of both games with any credit.

However, to see the vile abuse thrown at two of Wales greatest ever players, who have given us moments we could only dream of in our lifetime less than 10 years ago smacks of the type of support we criticise England and their media for.

If it wasnt for Bale in particular we wouldnt even be in these finals. Hes the main reason we now expect to qualify for finals of tournaments.

Together Stronger? Only when its going well for some it seems. Short memories.

What vile abuse?
They were great players and I will always admire them, but this tournament they have been very ordinary at best.
I don’t know what they were doing in training but come on!
Everyone retires at the right time or gets dropped eventually.

[J R Hartley]

yes, as soon as teams pick people on reputation instead of current ability they are in big trouble. we've seen as such with England and certain club sodes many times previously.
it is completely understandable that we stuck with these guys in this tournament, but in the future we will need to move on unless they can earn their place again

Whilst in general I would agree that you cant pick the team on reputation it would take a very, very strong manager not to pick Bale and Ramsey. They more than anyone deserved to play at a World Cup for Wales. We were not going to win it so why not reward loyalty? it was Bales goals that got us through the play-offs.

Plus, we have very little strength in depth anyway. Its not like they were playing ahead of a Foden or a Grealish and as bale showed in the play-offs and the other night when winning the pen, he does the ability to affect games even when hes having a quiet game in general.

[Wales-Bales]

I think they’re both well in credit after what they’ve done in a Wales shirt after what is now almost sixteen years in Bale’s case and fourteen in Ramsey’s.

Football has never been played on past reputations.

[jeepster]

Iran gave us a lesson on how to play football,energy how to cross the ball and the ability to have a shoot on goal.
Well played Iran.

[llan bluebird]

But Ampadu partner would have been as badly exposed against Portsmouth, Dundee United and MK Dons

Poor selection and weak management cost us

[the other bob wilson]

They certainly have been poor, but not the only two. Only Kieffer Moore and Ben Davies can come out of both games with any credit.

However, to see the vile abuse thrown at two of Wales greatest ever players, who have given us moments we could only dream of in our lifetime less than 10 years ago smacks of the type of support we criticise England and their media for.

If it wasnt for Bale in particular we wouldnt even be in these finals. Hes the main reason we now expect to qualify for finals of tournaments.

Together Stronger? Only when its going well for some it seems. Short memories.

Well said, increasingly toys are getting thrown out of prams after games for club and country on here.

[J R Hartley]

Just to be clear. I am not being a turncoat and I don't subscribe to some of the more venomous bantz that has and will inevitably come from some quarters. I'm disappointed. But I was disappointed in the euros too. Our performances were not good there either. I think the FAW should have been braver after that tournament and been just a little bit more ambitious with regard to the coaching staff. The signs were there.

The players are not THAT old. 31 and 33 is not ancient. Other players at that age can still play to the highest level. But you have to start questioning Bales decision to go to the mls. Maybe him and Rambo are just too injury prone. That isn't anyones fault.

Dissapointed in the Euros. **** me.

Thats enough for me the day. Jesus wept.

[Trigger]

I don't even think Iran did that much or needed to. As with the states we just give so much space away for quicker players to exploit.

We'd have been well beaten by 90 mins by a fair few lower ranked teams than Iran i've watched this week.

Some are giving it a bloody a good go.

2nd tournament in a row where I think we've just ambled through it.

[the other bob wilson]

Football has never been played on past reputations.

You don’t half talk some rubbish at times - as has been said by Hartley, we wouldn’t have been there today if it wasn’t for Bale. Are you seriously saying you wouldn’t have had Bale and Ramsey in the squad?

[Rjk]

Whilst in general I would agree that you cant pick the team on reputation it would take a very, very strong manager not to pick Bale and Ramsey. They more than anyone deserved to play at a World Cup for Wales. We were not going to win it so why not reward loyalty? it was Bales goals that got us through the play-offs.

Plus, we have very little strength in depth anyway. Its not like they were playing ahead of a Foden or a Grealish and as bale showed in the play-offs and the other night when winning the pen, he does the ability to affect games even when hes having a quiet game in general.

yes if Page had left out Bale and Ramsey and we had still lost everyone on here would have been apoplectic.
there was no indication that they were in any kind of good form going into the tournament, but our best chance was still to play them and hope they manage to turn back the years on the night. I would have made the same call, as would everyone else.
and as you say, they deserved the chance after everything they've done in getting us here

[chrisp_1927]

You brought up a "joke" performance from him for 2016 for some reason. I mean of all the Bale performances in the last 6 years to bring up some nothing game from 6 years ago makes you the joke I would say.

Thats why I called you an ungrateful kent and I stand by it.

If you want to bring up an Andorra performance what about the away game where he "Baled" us out of the shit yet again and it is regarded as one of the most important goals in recent Welsh football history. That set us on the road to qualifying for Euro 2016.

Bale had a Stormer in that game. It was Rambo I was talking about ya melt. The reason I brought it up was explained within the post, because he severely impacted the way the rest of the team were able to play in that game and this. Bale was quiet today, that's not catastrophic. Ramsey wasn't just poor, he demanded the ball when he was in no position to take it and put the rest of the team in the crap time and time again.

[Barmy]

Well said, increasingly toys are getting thrown out of prams after games for club and country on here.

I admire your loyalty, I really do.
It just seems so obviously misplaced today.
We were nine against eleven from the start.
And I am as unhappy as you.

[Wales-Bales]

Iran gave us a lesson on how to play football, energy how to cross the ball and the ability to have a shoot on goal.
Well played Iran.

The Iran players were as fit as a butchers dog. We had aging players short of match fitness playing 2 games in 4 days, in very hot weather.

[dml1954]

Utterly abysmal performance. You cant play any international game carrying (and playing) three unfit players, let alone a World Cup match. Bale did absolutely nothing for the whole match. He didn't tackle, go for headers or even run around. He gave the ball away regularly and just stood watching for most of the game. And yet Page left him on the pitch and took Wilson and Ampadu off, who weren't at their best either but at least they were running around. Ramsey wasn’t much better than Bale either. The team looked poorly coached and lacking in any ideas.

[Wales-Bales]

You don’t half talk some rubbish at times - as has been said by Hartley, we wouldn’t have been there today if it wasn’t for Bale. Are you seriously saying you wouldn’t have had Bale and Ramsey in the squad?

That's your opinion, but it's not mine. Players generally get dropped or moved on quickly if they don't perform. I would have had them in the squad, but they wouldn't have played every minute of every game, based solely on their performances.

[superfeathers]

yes if Page had left out Bale and Ramsey and we had still lost everyone on here would have been apoplectic.
there was no indication that they were in any kind of good form going into the tournament, but our best chance was still to play them and hope they manage to turn back the years on the night. I would have made the same call, as would everyone else.
and as you say, they deserved the chance after everything they've done in getting us here

I don’t disagree. Obviously they make the squad.
Ramsey though after he gave the ball away consistently against the us would’ve been a big doubt to start today. And he should’ve come off sooner after starting.
If he does decide to retire it may be a blessing or we need a manager who will use him as an impact sub.
My gut feeling is he will retire after Tuesday but I hope he stays close to the Welsh team

[the other bob wilson]

I admire your loyalty, I really do.
It just seems so obviously misplaced today.
We were nine against eleven from the start.
And I am as unhappy as you.

It’s not loyalty, it’s appreciating that we are at a tournament I never thought I’d see us play in, mixed with a bit of a sense of reality - the writing has been on the wall for Wales for some time now. Unbelievably, we’ve been in the world’s top twenty for seven years, but we’re nowhere near that level now really.

[the other bob wilson]

That's your opinion, but it's not mine. Players generally get dropped or moved on quickly if they don't perform. I would have had them in the squad, but they wouldn't have played every minute of every game, based solely on their performances.

They haven’t played every minute of every game.

[Dave Blue]

I don't even think Iran did that much or needed to. As with the states we just give so much space away for quicker players to exploit.

We'd have been well beaten by 90 mins by a fair few lower ranked teams than Iran i've watched this week.

Some are giving it a bloody a good go.

2nd tournament in a row where I think we've just ambled through it.

I don’t think a draw against the Swiss, a win v Turkey and a close defeat v Italy away is ambling through. The Danes beat us well but so would many.

Here we are learning there are no mugs around, not in our group in particular. We are probably rightfully 4th seeds and will probably finish there.

We look totally undercooked. Half the side barely play these days, including our stars.
Today has cruelly exposed this fact.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I think they’re both well in credit after what they’ve done in a Wales shirt after what is now almost sixteen years in Bale’s case and fourteen in Ramsey’s.

That's certainly the case but we don't get to the world cup to give players a swansong , we go there to compete