Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

[JamesWales]

But this is precisely what I am saying, no analysis. Just you sticking your finger in the air and coming up with a convenient conclusion. There was analysis produced to show the forecast economic and social impact of hs2, you might not think there are benefits in faster connections between cities but smarter people with better methodologies did . Rishi has seemingly announced a load of projects and told everybody how much taxpayer cash will be assigned to each without the necessary checks/balances or consulting local people.

It is the same old story that was clear in your defense of Rwanda and the barge contract, you have no regarded for effective spending of taxpayer money or due process. I have a feeling that in 18 months if we have a different party in government, this might change...

Do you think this decision was made with no analysis do you? I somehow doubt that. That's not how transport infrastructure spending decisions happen.

[JamesWales]

****in hell, the irony.

You are the equivalent of a battered spouse of the Tory party. They have proven themselves to be bullshitters time and time again when announcing grand infrastructure projects and yet you keep on believing.

I think you need to take a step back here tbh.

I just think that using HS2 funding to fund more localised projects; things like the North Wales electrification, improved transport between Liverpool and Manchester etc is a better use of the money.

That's a pretty common and pretty justifiable belief to be honest and the fact your response to it is to post stuff like the above says far more about you than it does me.

Ive never thought HS2 was the best use of transport spending. I've known a couple of people who have worked on it and it has always struck me as a monumental gravy train (no pun intended) that wasn't the best use of resources. I've always thought that, so it's no surprise I will think it's a good idea they are reallocating resources is it?!

I wholly support the south Wales Metro btw. That's a WG project.

[Eric Cartman]

I think you need to take a step back here tbh.

I just think that using HS2 funding to fund more localised projects; things like the North Wales electrification, improved transport between Liverpool and Manchester etc is a better use of the money.

That's a pretty common and pretty justifiable belief to be honest and the fact your response to it is to post stuff like the above says far more about you than it does me.

Ive never thought HS2 was the best use of transport spending. I've known a couple of people who have worked on it and it has always struck me as a monumental gravy train (no pun intended) that wasn't the best use of resources. I've always thought that, so it's no surprise I will think it's a good idea they are reallocating resources is it?!

I wholly support the south Wales Metro btw. That's a WG project.

You keep saying the same thing 'better use of the money' as if a) government spending is like household spending, either/or approach, b) these new projects won't suffer exactly the same waste/overspend and c) they will actually bloody build them and d) analysis to show their superior economic/social benefit exists.

Why not build hs2/3/4/5 and these other projects?

[Swiss Peter]

Rishi has seemingly announced a load of projects and told everybody how much taxpayer cash will be assigned to each without the necessary checks/balances or consulting local people.

...

Apparently the £36bn will be allocated across the nation. Let's hope Sunak's favourite area of deprivation gets levelled up as a result. Tunbridge Wells could do with a shiny new station and by-pass😂

[JamesWales]

You keep saying the same thing 'better use of the money' as if a) government spending is like household spending, either/or approach, b) these new projects won't suffer exactly the same waste/overspend and c) they will actually bloody build them and d) analysis to show their superior economic/social benefit exists.

Why not build hs2/3/4/5 and these other projects?

Yes Eric. I think there is a better use of the money. That's it. It's not hard to comprehend. Some people would advocate spending everything on one big project, others on several smaller ones.

It goes without saying that the problems in terms of finding and delivering any proposed new ones will still exist of course.

[ninian opinian]

After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

Roads minister Richard Holden stated Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

Henri Murison, CE of Northern Powerhouse Partnership says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.

It’s unravelling already, bloody clowns!

[Eric Cartman]

Yes Eric. I think there is a better use of the money. That's it. It's not hard to comprehend. Some people would advocate spending everything on one big project, others on several smaller ones.

It goes without saying that the problems in terms of finding and delivering any proposed new ones will still exist of course.

Pull the curtain back and there is nothing in there.

I'll try once again...

Better use of money based on what? The brain is essentially a big calculator, what variables is your brain using to decide that it is better use of money?

As far as I'm aware the government haven't published any analysis to show the financial impact so we have nothing concrete to compare hs2 with.

[Eric Cartman]

After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

Roads minister Richard Holden stated Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

Henri Murison, CE of Northern Powerhouse Partnership says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.

It’s unravelling already, bloody clowns!

Next you will be telling me there isn't going to be 40 new hospitals, I just refuse to believe they have lied.

[ninian opinian]

Next you will be telling me there isn't going to be 40 new hospitals, I just refuse to believe they have lied.

Wait there’s more

Yesterday the government pledged to deliver: "A259 from Bognor Regis to Southampton"

Today Mark Harper tweeted graphics showing they actually meant Littlehampton...45 miles away.

And

“Govt has pledged to extend the Metrolink network in Manchester towards the Airport - despite the fact it was built 9 years ago”

And

They also want to build a tram line to Clifton South in Nottingham that was done 8 years ago

CLOWNS!

[JamesWales]

Pull the curtain back and there is nothing in there.

I'll try once again...

Better use of money based on what? The brain is essentially a big calculator, what variables is your brain using to decide that it is better use of money?

As far as I'm aware the government haven't published any analysis to show the financial impact so we have nothing concrete to compare hs2 with.

Do you realise how unbelievably patronising you sound?

If the analysis hasn't been made (and I have no reason to believe you on that) then how are you in a position to judge either?

We all have opinions on govt expenditure and the best use of it. I would suggest that using all the funding on getting between two cities quicker is not the best use of that, and greater investment in connecting people to and within their own and neighbouring cities would produce better economic and social incomes.

The approach you suggest is what has led to more investment in the southeast in recent decades as it produces better economic outcomes..on paper at least.

[JamesWales]

Wait there’s more

Yesterday the government pledged to deliver: "A259 from Bognor Regis to Southampton"

Today Mark Harper tweeted graphics showing they actually meant Littlehampton...45 miles away.

And

“Govt has pledged to extend the Metrolink network in Manchester towards the Airport - despite the fact it was built 9 years ago”

And

They also want to build a tram line to Clifton South in Nottingham that was done 8 years ago

CLOWNS!

Someone follows Louise Haigh on twitter..

[ninian opinian]

Someone follows Louise Haigh on twitter..

Is that the best you’ve got

[Eric Cartman]

Wait there’s more

Yesterday the government pledged to deliver: "A259 from Bognor Regis to Southampton"

Today Mark Harper tweeted graphics showing they actually meant Littlehampton...45 miles away.

And

“Govt has pledged to extend the Metrolink network in Manchester towards the Airport - despite the fact it was built 9 years ago”

And

They also want to build a tram line to Clifton South in Nottingham that was done 8 years ago

CLOWNS!

'HS2 will not go to Euston without private funds'

After announcing it would yesterday. This is surely record timing for plans unravelling.

At least Rishi can still rely on 'some people here present' to blindly believe his next round of lies.

[Eric Cartman]

Do you realise how unbelievably patronising you sound?

If the analysis hasn't been made (and I have no reason to believe you on that) then how are you in a position to judge either?

We all have opinions on govt expenditure and the best use of it. I would suggest that using all the funding on getting between two cities quicker is not the best use of that, and greater investment in connecting people to and within their own and neighbouring cities would produce better economic and social incomes.

The approach you suggest is what has led to more investment in the southeast in recent decades as it produces better economic outcomes..on paper at least.

Wrong. The South East isn't connected, it's connected to London. Source - I live here

It's actually one of the main criticism of living in the home counties, you can get into London in 20/30 mins on fast trains but its so much difficult to travel horizontally.

[JamesWales]

Wrong. The South East isn't connected, it's connected to London. Source - I live here

It's actually one of the main criticism of living in the home counties, you can get into London in 20/30 mins on fast trains but its so much difficult to travel horizontally.

I didn't say the southeast was connected, I said a purely economic analysis of the projects is what has led to greater investment in the southeast in recent years. Not just in terms of transport infrastructure, but that does trump expenditure elsewhere.

[Eric Cartman]

I didn't say the southeast was connected, I said a purely economic analysis of the projects is what has led to greater investment in the southeast in recent years. Not just in terms of transport infrastructure, but that does trump expenditure elsewhere.

Fair enough, but what do you think levelling up means? For me it means taxpayer investment in infrastructure, leading to private sector investment and better paying jobs. You have to start at the end, what is need for investment to occur, not 'which potholes are annoying Mary the most?'

[JamesWales]

Fair enough, but what do you think levelling up means? For me it means taxpayer investment in infrastructure, leading to private sector investment and better paying jobs. You have to start at the end, what is need for investment to occur, not 'which potholes are annoying Mary the most?'

For me it absolutely is not best demonstrated by getting people between two cities quicker, esp when you can already get between Manchester and London in a little over two hours and can work on the train if needs be, and there will already be a first phase to come which will deliver some benefits.

Potholes is an extreme example but actually it is the local bus services, train services and road links that really do connect people with their cities and towns that matter more. It helps people socialise and get to jobs that are otherwise not open to them.

I think that's a much better use of money and I wish HS2 had been scrapped or scaled back years ago tbh.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Do you realise how unbelievably patronising you sound?

If the analysis hasn't been made (and I have no reason to believe you on that) then how are you in a position to judge either?

We all have opinions on govt expenditure and the best use of it. I would suggest that using all the funding on getting between two cities quicker is not the best use of that, and greater investment in connecting people to and within their own and neighbouring cities would produce better economic and social incomes.

The approach you suggest is what has led to more investment in the southeast in recent decades as it produces better economic outcomes..on paper at least.

He's got it bang on

You are defending the indefensible

So you need a good verbal slap

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Apparently the £36bn will be allocated across the nation. Let's hope Sunak's favourite area of deprivation gets levelled up as a result. Tunbridge Wells could do with a shiny new station and by-pass😂

Inner City Sevenoaks

Plagued by crime and deprivation

[life on mars]

I can't see this playing out well for the government, they made a big fuss about the "northern powerhouse". This is an open goal for Labour surely?

Nah Sir Bier has said he won't oppose it there goes Blairs Labour initiated project of misery.

[PontBlue]

The stupid expensive waste of money should never have been started in the first place.

Much more benefit can be achieved for far less by focusing on regional travel projects and fully electrifying all existing lines.

[Dorcus]

Nah Sir Bier has said he won't oppose it there goes Blairs Labour initiated project of misery.

Sir Kier Muppet!!!

[cyril evans awaydays]

For me it absolutely is not best demonstrated by getting people between two cities quicker, esp when you can already get between Manchester and London in a little over two hours and can work on the train if needs be, and there will already be a first phase to come which will deliver some benefits.

Potholes is an extreme example but actually it is the local bus services, train services and road links that really do connect people with their cities and towns that matter more. It helps people socialise and get to jobs that are otherwise not open to them.

I think that's a much better use of money and I wish HS2 had been scrapped or scaled back years ago tbh.

If potholes is an extreme example, why is 25% of the overall diverted money from the Birmingham to Manchester link being allocated across the country allegedly to fix them. I say allegedly as all this is about budgets from the 2029 financial year onwards. Apart from conference gesture politics where Sunak's Network North list is unravelling by the hour what level of confidence do you have that the guy that presented this unravelling wish list would have any say over delivering it?

[JamesWales]

If potholes is an extreme example, why is 25% of the overall diverted money from the Birmingham to Manchester link being allocated across the country allegedly to fix them. I say allegedly as all this is about budgets from the 2029 financial year onwards. Apart from conference gesture politics where Sunak's Network North list is unravelling by the hour what level of confidence do you have that the guy that presented this unravelling wish list would have any say over delivering it?

Potholes are an extreme example from the list of projects; ie, they are the smallest intervention. But they still impact millions of people who probably get pissed off that their street isn't fixed when we are spending billions on getting people to London half an hour quicker.

The reality is that far more projects can bee funded now and yeah I think that's a good thing. Don't you?

There's no guarantee any of it will be built. That's how politics work. Labour could cancel them all or redirect funding. Some may end up not happening for one reason or another. Drakeford cancelled the M4 relief road that Carwyn Jones wanted for example..that's what happens

It doesn't mean you don't identify and fund anything to move them forward though or else absolutely nothing ever would be built because nothing would get off the drawing board.

Do you not see the value in any of the many projects that they have said will now be funded with the money saved?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Potholes are an extreme example from the list of projects; ie, they are the smallest intervention. But they still impact millions of people who probably get pissed off that their street isn't fixed when we are spending billions on getting people to London half an hour quicker.

The reality is that far more projects can bee funded now and yeah I think that's a good thing. Don't you?

Why do you think diverting 25% of the supposed budget to potholes and mostly away from the branded Network North is an extreme example?

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...money-27843415