40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[jon1959]

Hope Sludge doesn't see the above or he's off

Sludge isn't that manic.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Still can't get those images from yesterday of those poor little children out of my mind. Had a job sleeping last night. There must surely be hundreds of orphans there now. Some sort of Kindertransport would be good if only just for these kids but very unlikely I guess in the present circumstances.

We know that some children suffered terribly at the hands of hamas on October 7th

But as of the next few days following the terror strike Israel has been killing kids in gaza

Their arguement appears to be its the fault of hamas but its 2023 not the dark days of world war two

The sight of those screaming , frightened kids is horrifying and the Israelis are creating generations of martyrs in addition to the psychological effects left on the wounded

[Heathblue]

The best discussion / debate of the war so far IMO was on the Richie Allen show last week I listened to

[Heathblue]

The best discussion / debate of the war so far IMO was on the Richie Allen show last week I listened to

FAT fingers on my phone, coupled with the ads meant i couldn't finish!!! I know thank f**k for that you say.

[Gofer Blue]

We know that some children suffered terribly at the hands of hamas on October 7th

But as of the next few days following the terror strike Israel has been killing kids in gaza

Their arguement appears to be its the fault of hamas but its 2023 not the dark days of world war two

The sight of those screaming , frightened kids is horrifying and the Israelis are creating generations of martyrs in addition to the psychological effects left on the wounded

Yes, sadly some of these will quite likely become the "new Hamas" and thereby perpetuate the on-going conflict for yet another generation. My wife and I would happily take in one of these kids (we already support a Syrian refugee family here, so no language problem with their help of course!) but I suspect at our age UNHCR would almost certainly reject our offer. I might drop a line to our M.P. though, to see what he thinks about the idea.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Yes, sadly some of these will quite likely become the "new Hamas" and thereby perpetuate the on-going conflict for yet another generation. My wife and I would happily take in one of these kids (we already support a Syrian refugee family here, so no language problem with their help of course!) but I suspect at our age UNHCR would almost certainly reject our offer. I might drop a line to our M.P. though, to see what he thinks about the idea.

Nice one and tell him to stop kissing israels arse

[pipster]

Nice one and tell him to stop kissing israels arse

Sludge - Did you really just say "We know that some children suffered terribly at the hands of hamas on October 7th"

Which ones didnt then ? - the ones put in the ovens or the ones handcuffed and burned alive ? - enlighten us ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Sludge - Did you really just say "We know that some children suffered terribly at the hands of hamas on October 7th"

Which ones didnt then ? - the ones put in the ovens or the ones handcuffed and burned alive ? - enlighten us ?

Hundreds and hundreds of children have died from the Israeli bombing

Although it's not a competition if you want to make it one then the Palestinians are now being massacred on a daily basis , in increasing numbers and many of those are children

Most Israeli children didn't suffer as they are shielded behind a huge army on land that is heavily protected

It's surely obvious that as horrific as the October 7th attacks were about 700 people , of all ages , were affected

Horrible but the Israeli war machine is making up for that and its appalling what's happening

[pipster]

Hundreds and hundreds of children have died from the Israeli bombing

Although it's not a competition if you want to make it one then the Palestinians are now being massacred on a daily basis , in increasing numbers and many of those are children

Most Israeli children didn't suffer as they are shielded behind a huge army on land that is heavily protected

It's surely obvious that as horrific as the October 7th attacks were about 700 people , of all ages , were affected

Horrible but the Israeli war machine is making up for that and its appalling what's happening

Your first line and you try and deflect away from what you said.
No one said it was a competition - those are your words -not mine.

You appear to be taking sides Paul?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Your first line and you try and deflect away from what you said.
No one said it was a competition - those are your words -not mine.

You appear to be taking sides Paul?

I have no idea what you are talking about

What do you mean try and deflect away , what do you mean ?

I am very much veering towards thinking Israel are trigger happy

And that is a growing opinion worldwide

You are clearly pro Israel or you are taking that view to be awkward

That's up to you

Some children in Israel suffered on October 7th .....but most were safe and very well protected by their army and government

Is that clearer ?

Your use of first names is fcking odd

[the other bob wilson]

I wouldn't promote any book having seen it ripped out of it's given context. Placed back into it's given context it is obviously divine in origin and is something that's very easy to present as utterly wise and completely truthful. No other literature comes close.
1. I notice you say that it's a "mistranslated compendium" - so give your best example...you've got 1189 chapters to choose from.
2. I see your attack on the Bible quickly switched to an attack on someone (Mr Netanyahu) who quoted from it re the History of Israel and the Land originally given to the Jews which (as of yet) they have never fully possessed.
3. Please don't declare that I approve of Netanyahu when I have never even mentioned him in relation to this conflict.
4. If I rightly have to stick to the facts then so do you.

Well, that’s a way of completely ignoring Jon’s point about Netanyahu using the Bible to justify Israel’s approach I suppose - who gave them the land you refer to?

[truthpaste]

Well, that’s a way of completely ignoring Jon’s point about Netanyahu using the Bible to justify Israel’s approach I suppose - who gave them the land you refer to?

The same almighty power that gave them something else you will remember in 1967, victory in just six days against all the odds......

In the spring of 1967, following close to a decade of relative calm, Israel found itself poised for war against four of its Arab neighbors.
According to all the military analysts and pundits, it was to be a lopsided match.

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) consisted of 275,000 troops, compared to the 456,000 soldiers of the combined Iraqi, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian armies. The united Arab forces also had a decided edge with regards to weaponry and military equipment: they boasted more than double the amount of tanks, and close to four times the amount of combat aircraft. The three-week period preceding the Six-Day War was one of dread, shock and fright for the residents of the Holy Land.

With close to two and a half million Jews living in the tiny country, it had the highest concentration of Jews since pre-Holocaust Eastern Europe. So pessimistic was the outlook that the nation’s cemeteries and national parks were marked to become gravesites for the many who would surely perish in the course of the war.

However, despite all the prognostications, by the time the war ended, the territory under Israeli control had tripled in size. Jews returned to sites where their ancestors had lived for thousands of years, sites from which waves of terror were launched against them for so many years. The casualties and losses were painful, but minimal in comparison to all projections. The Jewish nation was miraculously victorious in the face of unbelievable odds.

History books speak of the “Hundred Years’ War,” the “Thirty Years’ War,” and many other long-fought battles. Here, in a matter of six short days, a nation managed to utterly rout not one, but four powerful enemies!

[the other bob wilson]

The same almighty power that gave them something else you will remember in 1967, victory in just six days against all the odds......

In the spring of 1967, following close to a decade of relative calm, Israel found itself poised for war against four of its Arab neighbors.
According to all the military analysts and pundits, it was to be a lopsided match.

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) consisted of 275,000 troops, compared to the 456,000 soldiers of the combined Iraqi, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian armies. The united Arab forces also had a decided edge with regards to weaponry and military equipment: they boasted more than double the amount of tanks, and close to four times the amount of combat aircraft. The three-week period preceding the Six-Day War was one of dread, shock and fright for the residents of the Holy Land.

With close to two and a half million Jews living in the tiny country, it had the highest concentration of Jews since pre-Holocaust Eastern Europe. So pessimistic was the outlook that the nation’s cemeteries and national parks were marked to become gravesites for the many who would surely perish in the course of the war.

However, despite all the prognostications, by the time the war ended, the territory under Israeli control had tripled in size. Jews returned to sites where their ancestors had lived for thousands of years, sites from which waves of terror were launched against them for so many years. The casualties and losses were painful, but minimal in comparison to all projections. The Jewish nation was miraculously victorious in the face of unbelievable odds.

History books speak of the “Hundred Years’ War,” the “Thirty Years’ War,” and many other long-fought battles. Here, in a matter of six short days, a nation managed to utterly rout not one, but four powerful enemies!

Ah, now there's the problem, people proclaiming that God gave us this or told us to do that are often at the centre of the sort of conflict we've been seeing in the middle east for decades, if not centuries.

I was only eleven at the time of the war you talk of and can remember being surprised at how quickly and conclusively Israel managed to win it, but, even then, I didn't fall for the line that it was because they had God on their side.

[stevo]

Sure, if we casually ignore one groups publically expressed desire for the extermination of an entire nation?

If there is nothing to choose between them, please post Israel's publicly announced desire to eradicate an entire nation.....?

Before I got involved in these pointless discussions, I said to Truthpaste and Sludge that thanks to cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias you’re wasting your time. Everything that Truthpaste has posted since can be attributed to one of those shortcomings in human thinking.The above being a classic example along with the death of a Talk Radio host.

And every time we try to counter it, it will only reaffirm his beliefs. I think I’m done with these threads. The suggestion that were being antisemitic was the last straw.

[jon1959]

The same almighty power that gave them something else you will remember in 1967, victory in just six days against all the odds......

In the spring of 1967, following close to a decade of relative calm, Israel found itself poised for war against four of its Arab neighbors.
According to all the military analysts and pundits, it was to be a lopsided match.

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) consisted of 275,000 troops, compared to the 456,000 soldiers of the combined Iraqi, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian armies. The united Arab forces also had a decided edge with regards to weaponry and military equipment: they boasted more than double the amount of tanks, and close to four times the amount of combat aircraft. The three-week period preceding the Six-Day War was one of dread, shock and fright for the residents of the Holy Land.

With close to two and a half million Jews living in the tiny country, it had the highest concentration of Jews since pre-Holocaust Eastern Europe. So pessimistic was the outlook that the nation’s cemeteries and national parks were marked to become gravesites for the many who would surely perish in the course of the war.

However, despite all the prognostications, by the time the war ended, the territory under Israeli control had tripled in size. Jews returned to sites where their ancestors had lived for thousands of years, sites from which waves of terror were launched against them for so many years. The casualties and losses were painful, but minimal in comparison to all projections. The Jewish nation was miraculously victorious in the face of unbelievable odds.

History books speak of the “Hundred Years’ War,” the “Thirty Years’ War,” and many other long-fought battles. Here, in a matter of six short days, a nation managed to utterly rout not one, but four powerful enemies!

I don't think even the Israelis claimed that any 'God' was behind their victory in 1967. They put it down to superior armaments, better training, long term planning for their pre-emptive strike on Egypt and support from the USA (which made the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty especially embarrassing).

They expected to win in 3-4 days against unprepared neighbours. But 6 days was good enough and they achieved their objective of seizing the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and (temporarily) Sinai.

[stevo]

Occam's razor ^^^

[Taunton Blue Genie]

How ironic is it that the conflict in Irsael is between two Abrahamist sects?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

The same almighty power that gave them something else you will remember in 1967, victory in just six days against all the odds......

In the spring of 1967, following close to a decade of relative calm, Israel found itself poised for war against four of its Arab neighbors.
According to all the military analysts and pundits, it was to be a lopsided match.

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) consisted of 275,000 troops, compared to the 456,000 soldiers of the combined Iraqi, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian armies. The united Arab forces also had a decided edge with regards to weaponry and military equipment: they boasted more than double the amount of tanks, and close to four times the amount of combat aircraft. The three-week period preceding the Six-Day War was one of dread, shock and fright for the residents of the Holy Land.

With close to two and a half million Jews living in the tiny country, it had the highest concentration of Jews since pre-Holocaust Eastern Europe. So pessimistic was the outlook that the nation’s cemeteries and national parks were marked to become gravesites for the many who would surely perish in the course of the war.

However, despite all the prognostications, by the time the war ended, the territory under Israeli control had tripled in size. Jews returned to sites where their ancestors had lived for thousands of years, sites from which waves of terror were launched against them for so many years. The casualties and losses were painful, but minimal in comparison to all projections. The Jewish nation was miraculously victorious in the face of unbelievable odds.

History books speak of the “Hundred Years’ War,” the “Thirty Years’ War,” and many other long-fought battles. Here, in a matter of six short days, a nation managed to utterly rout not one, but four powerful enemies!

That's it

It was God what won it

[truthpaste]

I don't think even the Israelis claimed that any 'God' was behind their victory in 1967. They put it down to superior armaments, better training, long term planning for their pre-emptive strike on Egypt and support from the USA (which made the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty especially embarrassing).

They expected to win in 3-4 days against unprepared neighbours. But 6 days was good enough and they achieved their objective of seizing the West Bank, Golan Heights, Gaza and (temporarily) Sinai.

Sure, it was a formality, nice BBC style summary

[truthpaste]

That's it

It was God what won it

Even those who were not allowed to talk about God concluded He had to be the only logical answer:-


The Six-Day War was by all accounts a contemporary miracle. Israel’s enemies made clear their intent. It was not land that they wanted as much as Jewish lives. The Arabs assured the world they would finish the task Hitler started. The Holocaust was the unspeakable genocide of six million. The Arab leaders who surrounded the tiny Jewish homeland boasted that this time what remained of the Jews after the Nazi concentration camps and crematoria would at last be totally destroyed.

Military analysts are still stunned when they study what actually happened. Generals at West Point have been quoted as saying that Israel’s victory can simply not be understood from the perspective of strategy in historic warfare. One officer, who understandably chose not to be quoted by name, simply said, “There is no way we can teach the reason behind Israel’s success because Israel was clearly aided primarily by God – and we are not permitted to teach God at West Point.”

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Even those who were not allowed to talk about God concluded He had to be the only logical answer:-


The Six-Day War was by all accounts a contemporary miracle. Israel’s enemies made clear their intent. It was not land that they wanted as much as Jewish lives. The Arabs assured the world they would finish the task Hitler started. The Holocaust was the unspeakable genocide of six million. The Arab leaders who surrounded the tiny Jewish homeland boasted that this time what remained of the Jews after the Nazi concentration camps and crematoria would at last be totally destroyed.

Military analysts are still stunned when they study what actually happened. Generals at West Point have been quoted as saying that Israel’s victory can simply not be understood from the perspective of strategy in historic warfare. One officer, who understandably chose not to be quoted by name, simply said, “There is no way we can teach the reason behind Israel’s success because Israel was clearly aided primarily by God – and we are not permitted to teach God at West Point.”

So an army officer says it was a victory CLEARLY aided PRIMARILY by GOD

That's his opinion isn't it ?

And it's yours too

It's not a fact because there is no evidence and the one thing on here you have proved , beyond a shadow of a doubt is that finding evidence of God is something you ...and other people of faith ......simply cannot do

That army officer may just have well said what helped Israel win the 6 day war was .....a bus full of aliens

Because that would be rubbish too

I mean if it was divine intervention why didn't God stop hamas invading all those settlements on October 6th ?

[jon1959]

Even those who were not allowed to talk about God concluded He had to be the only logical answer:-


The Six-Day War was by all accounts a contemporary miracle. Israel’s enemies made clear their intent. It was not land that they wanted as much as Jewish lives. The Arabs assured the world they would finish the task Hitler started. The Holocaust was the unspeakable genocide of six million. The Arab leaders who surrounded the tiny Jewish homeland boasted that this time what remained of the Jews after the Nazi concentration camps and crematoria would at last be totally destroyed.

Military analysts are still stunned when they study what actually happened. Generals at West Point have been quoted as saying that Israel’s victory can simply not be understood from the perspective of strategy in historic warfare. One officer, who understandably chose not to be quoted by name, simply said, “There is no way we can teach the reason behind Israel’s success because Israel was clearly aided primarily by God – and we are not permitted to teach God at West Point.”

You're trying too hard now.

Go on - please tell us how God helped the Israelis to successfully attack the USS Liberty spy ship and kill 34 US navy personnel and wound another 171 on 8 June 1967. I bet 'military analysts' are still as stunned as the 'Generals at West Point' at that success?

[jon1959]

Sure, it was a formality, nice BBC style summary

The poor old BBC is having a tough time on here today.

But no - not a formality. Israel lost nearly 1,000 dead and the Arab countries about 18,000 dead. But Israel planned and initiated the war. They attacked Egypt first in a pre-emptive and that drew in the other states over the next few days. Israel was better armed, better trained, had US intelligence and armaments support, and was led by a group of hard headed politicians and generals with a clear military, political and territorial objective. A number of the Israeli politicians and generals also made clear in published diaries and memoirs that they expected to win, and quickly (Gen. Matti Peled was one). None of them give a single line to your supernatural fantasies.

[truthpaste]

So an army officer says it was a victory CLEARLY aided PRIMARILY by GOD

That's his opinion isn't it ?

And it's yours too

It's not a fact because there is no evidence and the one thing on here you have proved , beyond a shadow of a doubt is that finding evidence of God is something you ...and other people of faith ......simply cannot do

That army officer may just have well said what helped Israel win the 6 day war was .....a bus full of aliens

Because that would be rubbish too

I mean if it was divine intervention why didn't God stop hamas invading all those settlements on October 6th ?

God has never 'stopped' mankind playing out his decisions, by they wise, wicked or foolish.
If He did then we would cry out that free will had been abolished and that God was pre-determining every single event.

Having said that, don't be fooled that free will comes with a no consequences label, because we will all give account, for everything we have done; which is why those who have thought this through realise we are all in trouble, and we actually need a Saviour.

Now I wonder which annual festival talks about a Saviour arriving on a mission?
Let me have a mince pie while I try to remember?

[jeepster]

God has never 'stopped' mankind playing out his decisions, by they wise, wicked or foolish.
If He did then we would cry out that free will had been abolished and that God was pre-determining every single event.

Having said that, don't be fooled that free will comes with a no consequences label, because we will all give account, for everything we have done; which is why those who have thought this through realise we are all in trouble, and we actually need a Saviour.

Now I wonder which annual festival talks about a Saviour arriving on a mission?
Let me have a mince pie while I try to remember?

Is it Diwali?