Amsterdam Violence

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

I noticed he squirmed at my second paragraph. I just wonder what compassionate human being could disagree with it.

James Netanyahu Wales

[Dorcus]

I think Israel's tactics will make the conflict go on for longer and clearly builds resentment. I also think that Hamas are repugnant and hide amongst their own people whom they have zero regard whatsoever for. I also think they could have saved thousands of lives by releasing hostages or of course not committing the atrocity in the first place. It's a near impossible situation, although I think Israel has overstepped the mark. Who is ultimately responsible for the slaughter of thousands of innocent people? I would say Hamas indirectly and Israel directly.

But it is very hard to find a solution isn't it. What would you suggest that both sides and regional partners and neighbouring countries are happy with?

No it's not hard to find a solution at all. World governments should stop arming Israel forthwith, stop giving it succour by publicly endorsing it's policies and drag it forthwith to an international summit including the regional powers to put an end to the fighting and ensure a political settlement.

[JamesWales]

James Netanyahu Wales

Yes Sludge Squealer Factory. Agreeing with the authorities that there were antisemitic attacks clearly makes them Benjamin Netenyahu. Just like acknowledging an asylum seeker hotel was tried to be set on fire makes you Sadam Hussain.

[JamesWales]

No it's not hard to find a solution at all. World governments should stop arming Israel forthwith, stop giving it succour by publicly endorsing it's policies and drag it forthwith to an international summit including the regional powers to put an end to the fighting and ensure a political settlement.

Easy to say. Harder to do.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Hands up to what? The police arrested 60 people. They are actively seeking 30.

You should turn up to the Amsterdam police station with your videos and see what they say.

I know 2 things

Either when you are presented with a decent moderate article like the Guardian piece posted by Jon1959 you dont read it......yet pretend you have .....and even in the face of clear unbiased reporting you don't read such reports ....and are therefore a fake

Or you do read it and you are an idiot which is beyond doubt

I don't think I have ever conversed with anyone as pig ignorant and stubborn and utterly full of brass neck as you on here

And given I can be a fanny at times , that's no compliment

Please continue making an arse of yourself in this and other mindless twaddle either led by or contributed to by you

This till is now closed

[Dorcus]

Easy to say. Harder to do.

Where there's a will there's a way

[JamesWales]

Where there's a will there's a way

I think that's part of the problem. The will isn't there as much as we would hope because of Iran's influence and connection to Hamas and a lot of countries in the region being content with Hamas being got rid of once and for all.

[Dorcus]

I think that's part of the problem. The will isn't there as much as we would hope because of Iran's influence and connection to Hamas and a lot of countries in the region being content with Hamas being got rid of once and for all.

I think the will isn't there between Israel, the USA and the West in particular. It doesn't suit their agenda. I'm not sure about Iran because it will largely be down to what the west might offer. However the longer this atrocity continues there's no doubt normal folk want the authorities, belligerents and vested interests to reach out for a settlement. No matter how difficult it's the only way.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

https://youtu.be/lwobmhPNu2g?si=qOcQ0pTDcpZAmt1-

Dutch MP in Parliament

Another conspiracy theorist like Owen Jones etc

Ah well

[JamesWales]

I think the will isn't there between Israel, the USA and the West in particular. It doesn't suit their agenda. I'm not sure about Iran because it will largely be down to what the west might offer. However the longer this atrocity continues there's no doubt normal folk want the authorities, belligerents and vested interests to reach out for a settlement. No matter how difficult it's the only way.

I agree.

But it's always very difficult. Take for instance Ukraine - and I don't suggest the suffering of the Ukrainian people is similar to the Palestinians here btw -but take Ukraine. Everyone wants peace but the most likely scenario is drawing the line where it currently sits, with Russia taking the east. Easy isn't it, but the consequences are significant and wholly difficult to achieve.

I can't see peace with Hamas still as an entity. Tbh I can't see lasting peace with Netenyahu in charge either. They are both plainly a barrier to the solution.

Either way we can find peace but I doubt it will last. You just need one of the neighbouring countries to elect or cede power to a party who don't recognise Israel's right to exist in any capacity and the whole cycle starts again.

[Dorcus]

I agree.

But it's always very difficult. Take for instance Ukraine - and I don't suggest the suffering of the Ukrainian people is similar to the Palestinians here btw -but take Ukraine. Everyone wants peace but the most likely scenario is drawing the line where it currently sits, with Russia taking the east. Easy isn't it, but the consequences are significant and wholly difficult to achieve.

I can't see peace with Hamas still as an entity. Tbh I can't see lasting peace with Netenyahu in charge either. They are both plainly a barrier to the solution.

Either way we can find peace but I doubt it will last. You just need one of the neighbouring countries to elect or cede power to a party who don't recognise Israel's right to exist in any capacity and the whole cycle starts again.

I don't agree it's much easier than that. The West must concede mistakes have historically been made and must try to seek peace with Iran by confirming there will be changes to the status quo. As in Ukraine even if borders need to be redrawn it's a better solution than ongoing innocent deaths.

[jon1959]

I agree.

But it's always very difficult. Take for instance Ukraine - and I don't suggest the suffering of the Ukrainian people is similar to the Palestinians here btw -but take Ukraine. Everyone wants peace but the most likely scenario is drawing the line where it currently sits, with Russia taking the east. Easy isn't it, but the consequences are significant and wholly difficult to achieve.

I can't see peace with Hamas still as an entity. Tbh I can't see lasting peace with Netenyahu in charge either. They are both plainly a barrier to the solution.

Either way we can find peace but I doubt it will last. You just need one of the neighbouring countries to elect or cede power to a party who don't recognise Israel's right to exist in any capacity and the whole cycle starts again.

We could all start by not pretending this is a symmetrical conflict and that it is one that has been building for a century, not 13 months.

I have come around to agreeing with what Feedback said on this board about 15 years ago - the only solution is a single democratic state with equal rights for Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs.

The two-state solution that most of the world supports and that western governments have recently re-discovered, is unviable. It might have been viable in 1947-8 when the UN put it forward; it might have been viable after Oslo in 1993; but after another 30+ years of settlement building, ethnic cleansing and systematic destruction of Palestinian homes and lands it is no longer viable - even for the less than 22% of Palestine that was under discussion at Oslo. Viable didn't mean right or just, but it might have been doable.

Now the only possible outcomes are a single democratic state or a single Zionist (Jewish supremacist state) built on the final ruins of Palestinian homes and on Palestinian bones. The latter is the direction of travel - a settler-colonial state of Israel from the river to the sea with second class citizens or guest workers supporting the first class citizens defined by an ethno religious label - most of them incomers from Eastern Europe and North America.

The 'one democratic state' vision is rapidly gaining traction and support - not just amongst Palestinians, but also anti-Zionist Jews inside and outside Israel, and major parts of the wider solidarity movement.

The obstacles to any kind of settlement are not Iran or sections of the Palestinian resistance movement - even the violent, autocratic, Islamist elements of it. The obstacles are the western backers and enablers of Israel - primarily the USA, but also Germany (the most pro-Israel state in the EU and the second biggest supplier of arms for the genocide), the UK, France and Canada.

[JamesWales]

We could all start by not pretending this is a symmetrical conflict and that it is one that has been building for a century, not 13 months.

I have come around to agreeing with what Feedback said on this board about 15 years ago - the only solution is a single democratic state with equal rights for Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs.

The two-state solution that most of the world supports and that western governments have recently re-discovered, is unviable. It might have been viable in 1947-8 when the UN put it forward; it might have been viable after Oslo in 1993; but after another 30+ years of settlement building, ethnic cleansing and systematic destruction of Palestinian homes and lands it is no longer viable - even for the less than 22% of Palestine that was under discussion at Oslo. Viable didn't mean right or just, but it might have been doable.

Now the only possible outcomes are a single democratic state or a single Zionist (Jewish supremacist state) built on the final ruins of Palestinian homes and on Palestinian bones. The latter is the direction of travel - a settler-colonial state of Israel from the river to the sea with second class citizens or guest workers supporting the first class citizens defined by an ethno religious label - most of them incomers from Eastern Europe and North America.

The 'one democratic state' vision is rapidly gaining traction and support - not just amongst Palestinians, but also anti-Zionist Jews inside and outside Israel, and major parts of the wider solidarity movement.

The obstacles to any kind of settlement are not Iran or sections of the Palestinian resistance movement - even the violent, autocratic, Islamist elements of it. The obstacles are the western backers and enablers of Israel - primarily the USA, but also Germany (the most pro-Israel state in the EU and the second biggest supplier of arms for the genocide), the UK, France and Canada.

You are right, it has of course been brewing for decades, if not centuries.

I am pretty sure you need to include violent Islamists as a part of the obstacles to peace though. Especially if you are going to include the likes of Canada and France. You wouldnt even get past the front door of th negotiating room without acknowledging that.

[jon1959]

After Amsterdam came Paris....

https://www.thecanary.co/global/worl...ligans-france/

This probably requires a health warning as it is from The Canary and may cause excessive spluttering and frothing in some quarters!

[Dorcus]

After Amsterdam came Paris....

https://www.thecanary.co/global/worl...ligans-france/

This probably requires a health warning as it is from The Canary and may cause excessive spluttering and frothing in some quarters!

They think they're in Gaza

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

After Amsterdam came Paris....

https://www.thecanary.co/global/worl...ligans-france/

This probably requires a health warning as it is from The Canary and may cause excessive spluttering and frothing in some quarters!

I would suggest JW bends over and gets ready

And indeed , other apologists for the anti semitism crap

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They think they're in Gaza

Bloody anti semitic pro Palestinian extremists!

God bless Israel

[Dorcus]

Bloody anti semitic pro Palestinian extremists!

God bless Israel

Thank goodness we've finally put this thread to bed. We move on!

[A Quiet Monkfish]

After Amsterdam came Paris....

https://www.thecanary.co/global/worl...ligans-france/

This probably requires a health warning as it is from The Canary and may cause excessive spluttering and frothing in some quarters!

And that's the problem with social media. The website headlines 'preposterous sentences' handed down to three extinction rebellion activists for causing £6,000 of damage. 320 hours of community service between them..

[JamesWales]

I would suggest JW bends over and gets ready

And indeed , other apologists for the anti semitism crap

Are you back to claiming it didn't happen? 😩

[Alan Lung]

Are you back to claiming it didn't happen? 😩

I still reckon you should apologise to Sludge and the other guys that you offended.

[jeepster]

I still reckon you should apologise to Sludge and the other guys that you offended.

JW is never wrong.

[JamesWales]

I still reckon you should apologise to Sludge and the other guys that you offended.

Reports from local government can be traumatic, that's true. I think most of them are outside the snowflake generation so I'm sure they will survive, just as I will 👍

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Well , well , well

https://youtu.be/4H_ozYgHpoM?si=inKswn91gmyYKXil

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JW is never wrong.

He is here