2024 US Presidential Election

[Wales-Bales]

Seven million deaths based on testing someone with 28 days of a positive test , so you could argue the majority of those would have probably died within a week or so of other causes.

If you test someone prior to death who was already ill with something else then don’t you think that 7 million death count is higher than it should be especially when you also consider that hospital care settings received a financial benefit for every person who died from Covid ?

How many of those 7 million deaths were of people who were perfectly healthy and were succumbed to the disease, I’m no expert but going on ONS data it’s not that high in comparison.

A significant percentage of the 7 million deaths would have been classed as flu or pneumonia prior to the pandemic as the numbers for those historical illnesses dropped off a cliff.

You’re not thinking clearly but no surprises there.

As an aside another remarkable statistic is that the average Covid death is higher than the usual average, as pointed out by the smugerati , and then our own PM at the time about 18 months later. What’s your point on this pertinent question?

Don't forget all the flu deaths disappeared as well!

[the other bob wilson]

Seven million deaths based on testing someone with 28 days of a positive test , so you could argue the majority of those would have probably died within a week or so of other causes.

If you test someone prior to death who was already ill with something else then don’t you think that 7 million death count is higher than it should be especially when you also consider that hospital care settings received a financial benefit for every person who died from Covid ?

How many of those 7 million deaths were of people who were perfectly healthy and were succumbed to the disease, I’m no expert but going on ONS data it’s not that high in comparison.

A significant percentage of the 7 million deaths would have been classed as flu or pneumonia prior to the pandemic as the numbers for those historical illnesses dropped off a cliff.

You’re not thinking clearly but no surprises there.

As an aside another remarkable statistic is that the average Covid death is higher than the usual average, as pointed out by the smugerati , and then our own PM at the time about 18 months later. What’s your point on this pertinent question?

I’m sure it had something to with a thread on here,but I wanted to find a figure for the number of Covid deaths and found the figure of 7 million, so there wasn’t much thinking through because from my position I don’t think I needed to.

I like to believe that your average person (including me) are open minded and intelligent enough to twig when they are being conned even if they believed the con at first.

There’s a public enquiry into how the Pandemic was handled going on at the moment and I’m sure it will identify stacks of things that could have been done better. However, I don’t for one moment believe that the gist of the conclusions they arrive at will be formed by a belief that Covid was nothing more than a version of the flu and that the measures introduced to try and control the virus were in fact part of a plan to indoctrinate and subtly persuade the population into meek acceptance of policies aimed at restricting their basic freedoms.

Right from time Covid was detected and then given a name, the gifted and critical thinkers on here were on it like a rash jumping to completely predictable conclusions because that’s what they do. The months that followed saw all sorts of absurd speculation from them and there were cases of some of them taking time of on here and when they returned (or started posting under.a new name in other cases), things had changed, now they had a common set of beliefs to work with and it was just a question of shoehorning any new information into that set of beliefs to try and make it look like they were right all of the time - that process continues to this day.

[TWGL1]

[QUOTE=the other bob wilson;5553996]I’m sure it had something to with a thread on here,but I wanted to find a figure for the number of Covid deaths and found the figure of 7 million, so there wasn’t much thinking through because from my position I don’t think I needed to.

I like to believe that your average person (including me) are open minded and intelligent enough to twig when they are being conned even if they believed the con at first.

There’s a public enquiry into how the Pandemic was handled going on at the moment and I’m sure it will identify stacks of things that could have been done better. However, I don’t for one moment believe that the gist of the conclusions they arrive at will be formed by a belief that Covid was nothing more than a version of the flu and that the measures introduced to try and control the virus were in fact part of a plan to indoctrinate and subtly persuade the population into meek acceptance of policies aimed at restricting their basic freedoms.

Right from time Covid was detected and then given a name, the gifted and critical thinkers on here were on it like a rash jumping to completely predictable conclusions because that’s what they do. The months that followed saw all sorts of absurd speculation from them and there were cases of some of them taking time of on here and when they returned (or started posting under.a new name in other cases), things had changed, now they had a common set of beliefs to work with and it was just a question of shoehorning any new information into that set of beliefs to try and make it look like they were right all of the time - that process continues to this day.[/QUO


Why are you so obsessed with calling people who saw through the propaganda “gifted” and “smug” etc when in-fact all they were doing was quietly questioning ludicrous government decisions that made absolutely no sense at all.


Ultimately the government were right to make certain decisions, but they were wrong to scare the pants of the majority of people under 55. Looks like you fell for the multi billion pound project hook line and sinker which is understandable when you think about how the paid for media industry reported the virus from the off.

Scotch Egg anyone ?

[the other bob wilson]

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5554039]

I’m sure it had something to with a thread on here,but I wanted to find a figure for the number of Covid deaths and found the figure of 7 million, so there wasn’t much thinking through because from my position I don’t think I needed to.

I like to believe that your average person (including me) are open minded and intelligent enough to twig when they are being conned even if they believed the con at first.

There’s a public enquiry into how the Pandemic was handled going on at the moment and I’m sure it will identify stacks of things that could have been done better. However, I don’t for one moment believe that the gist of the conclusions they arrive at will be formed by a belief that Covid was nothing more than a version of the flu and that the measures introduced to try and control the virus were in fact part of a plan to indoctrinate and subtly persuade the population into meek acceptance of policies aimed at restricting their basic freedoms.

Right from time Covid was detected and then given a name, the gifted and critical thinkers on here were on it like a rash jumping to completely predictable conclusions because that’s what they do. The months that followed saw all sorts of absurd speculation from them and there were cases of some of them taking time of on here and when they returned (or started posting under.a new name in other cases), things had changed, now they had a common set of beliefs to work with and it was just a question of shoehorning any new information into that set of beliefs to try and make it look like they were right all of the time - that process continues to this day.[/QUO


Why are you so obsessed with calling people who saw through the propaganda “gifted” and “smug” etc when in-fact all they were doing was quietly questioning ludicrous government decisions that made absolutely no sense at all.


Ultimately the government were right to make certain decisions, but they were wrong to scare the pants of the majority of people under 55. Looks like you fell for the multi billion pound project hook line and sinker which is understandable when you think about how the paid for media industry reported the virus from the off.

Scotch Egg anyone ?

“Gifted” because it was a word used by one of the “independent” thinkers on here to describe themselves and “smug” because most of you are with your certainty that you are forever being proved right and also the never ending “I told you so” posts - people who are in the nabit of getting things right most of the time do not need to advertise the fact by using that term, because others cotton n to the fact eventually - anyway, it’s only in your heads where you’re always being proved right.

You do it yourself in your latest post with your claim that the Government “scared the pants off anyone under 55”. It’s classic putting the cart before the horse. Within a couple of months of Covid officially arriving in the UK hundreds, and soon thousands, of people a day were dying. The virus hit Italy hard before it really took a hold here and there were stories daily about how hard that country was being hit.

Although there were signs that the virus hit older people more severely, you lot continually fall into the trap of thinking we knew then what we know now, it needed thousands to start dying a day to get definitive proof that Covid was killing so few younger people compared to the elderly. In mid March 2020, the Government were being widely criticised for not introducing the sort of lockdown measures seen in Italy and it was only when they saw modelling intervention that half a million could die without some sort of lockdown that they changed their minds from a policy of herd immunity. Within a fortnight of lockdown being introduced, you were getting hundreds dying a day (even the Prime Minister almost died of it) with the figure occasionally running into four figures, how do you think the country would have reacted if the policy had remained to let the virus tun free?

In time reliable data became available and, from a personal point of view, questions about the effectiveness of lockdowns grew until I was completely against the measures taken by the WAG in enforcing a ban on attending sporting events around Christmas 2021, but that was because of information which had come to light well after the spring of 2020 when such decisions had to be made with very little reliable data to go on - you lot never make any allowance for that, it’s all as if we knew then what we know now.

[TWGL1]

[QUOTE=the other bob wilson;5554074]

“Gifted” because it was a word used by one of the “independent” thinkers on here to describe themselves and “smug” because most of you are with your certainty that you are forever being proved right and also the never ending “I told you so” posts - people who are in the nabit of getting things right most of the time do not need to advertise the fact by using that term, because others cotton n to the fact eventually - anyway, it’s only in your heads where you’re always being proved right.

You do it yourself in your latest post with your claim that the Government “scared the pants off anyone under 55”. It’s classic putting the cart before the horse. Within a couple of months of Covid officially arriving in the UK hundreds, and soon thousands, of people a day were dying. The virus hit Italy hard before it really took a hold here and there were stories daily about how hard that country was being hit.

Although there were signs that the virus hit older people more severely, you lot continually fall into the trap of thinking we knew then what we know now, it needed thousands to start dying a day to get definitive proof that Covid was killing so few younger people compared to the elderly. In mid March 2020, the Government were being widely criticised for not introducing the sort of lockdown measures seen in Italy and it was only when they saw modelling intervention that half a million could die without some sort of lockdown that they changed their minds from a policy of herd immunity. Within a fortnight of lockdown being introduced, you were getting hundreds dying a day (even the Prime Minister almost died of it) with the figure occasionally running into four figures, how do you think the country would have reacted if the policy had remained to let the virus tun free?

In time reliable data became available and, from a personal point of view, questions about the effectiveness of lockdowns grew until I was completely against the measures taken by the WAG in enforcing a ban on attending sporting events around Christmas 2021, but that was because of information which had come to light well after the spring of 2020 when such decisions had to be made with very little reliable data to go on - you lot never make any allowance for that, it’s all as if we knew then what we know now.

You make some valid points , many of which I agree with , however, I am of the opinion that the WHO instructed western governments to undertake lockstep policies asked on what was essentially a mild to moderate disease to the vast majority. Let’s say for example they tested everyone for Flu who sadly died within 28 days of a positive test and I’m sure the numbers would be completely similar to Covid at the time. Don’t forget this was a disease that people needed an inadequate test just to see if they had it. Why would you require a test for something and report it back - simply for data purposes and scaremongering.

It’s interesting that there was no “spike” for a significant number of huge anti lockdown demonstrations despite what the media was reporting.

I also disagree with your outlandish claim that there were 7 million deaths of just Covid , there simply wasn’t otherwise it would show a huge lag of mortality rates (taking into account population growth). If this was the case don’t you think the average Covid death would be lower that the average?

What is odd about it all that a significant number of people who didn’t buy into the propaganda have never had Covid or been vaccinated and are fit and well. Work that one out.

The whole think has led to a significant amount of the population to question the validity of government decisions and I sincerely doubt the compliance level would be as high when the next big thing comes along.I suspect you will get masked up and fall in-line though.

[HiVis]

Why are you so obsessed with calling people who saw through the propaganda “gifted” and “smug” etc when in-fact all they were doing was quietly questioning ludicrous government decisions that made absolutely no sense at all.


Ultimately the government were right to make certain decisions, but they were wrong to scare the pants of the majority of people under 55. Looks like you fell for the multi billion pound project hook line and sinker which is understandable when you think about how the paid for media industry reported the virus from the off.

Scotch Egg anyone ?

clearly you were not burdened with an over abundance of schooling. Covid was extremely virulent. Whether the under 55s were susceptible or not it moot, what was evident was that the elderly were very susceptible, and to ensure their protection, we had to stop the spread.

[Wales-Bales]

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5554082]

What is odd about it all that a significant number of people who didn’t buy into the propaganda have never had Covid or been vaccinated and are fit and well. Work that one out.

It's a mystery

[the other bob wilson]

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5554082]

You make some valid points , many of which I agree with , however, I am of the opinion that the WHO instructed western governments to undertake lockstep policies asked on what was essentially a mild to moderate disease to the vast majority. Let’s say for example they tested everyone for Flu who sadly died within 28 days of a positive test and I’m sure the numbers would be completely similar to Covid at the time. Don’t forget this was a disease that people needed an inadequate test just to see if they had it. Why would you require a test for something and report it back - simply for data purposes and scaremongering.

It’s interesting that there was no “spike” for a significant number of huge anti lockdown demonstrations despite what the media was reporting.

I also disagree with your outlandish claim that there were 7 million deaths of just Covid , there simply wasn’t otherwise it would show a huge lag of mortality rates (taking into account population growth). If this was the case don’t you think the average Covid death would be lower that the average?

What is odd about it all that a significant number of people who didn’t buy into the propaganda have never had Covid or been vaccinated and are fit and well. Work that one out.

The whole think has led to a significant amount of the population to question the validity of government decisions and I sincerely doubt the compliance level would be as high when the next big thing comes along.I suspect you will get masked up and fall in-line though.

Well, I was sixty four and overweight with a heart condition in the spring of 2020. If I'd have been thirty years younger, less fat and in generally good health, the thought "this thing could kill me" would definitely not have been as strong in, say, the winter of 2020/21 when we knew more about Covid, but I would still have been thinking it could kill me during the spring of 2020 because so little was known about it at the time - hence why I welcomed the lockdown and was ctitical of Johnson for delaying it longer than he needed to.

I agree that lockdowns are likely to be considered as something of a last resort if and when the next Pandemic hits. One of the things which annoys me about the smugeratti on here is that you think that anyone who argues against you are "sheeple" who have fallen for what they've been fed by those in authority hook, line and sinker. However, there is clearly a lot more cynicism around among the general public when it comes to those authority than there was, say, twenty years ago, it's just that most people don't think they're being lied to every time like you lot do - going back to March 2020, wrong decisions were almost certainly taken, but I'll always believe that the vast majority of them were made for the right reason (a desire to keep the number of Covid deaths down).

Finally, I just Googled the simple question "How many people have died of Covid"? and got this answer back

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...oogle_vignette

All I'm interested in is the answer to the question I asked and I'm fairly sure that most people feel the same way. Yiou and your like come at that question from the viewpoint of how can we reduce that figure because it doesn't suit your agenda fod the figure to be as high as that and so we start getting all of the "yes, buts........". To what end is that being done? Is it because you want to deny that there was a new killer disease that hit the world around five years ago or is it a desire to get that 7 million deaths figure down to, say, 4 million as if that makes things more acceptable as it somehow proves beyond all doubt that lockdowns were unnecessary?

As I've said, even before we get the results of the Official Enquiry, I think there will be no great desire amon g the public or in Government for more lockdowns in the future unless they are thought to be absolutely necessary (even then, I'm sure there will be far more resistance to them than there was in the spring of 2020). As for wearing a mask, I honestly can't say until we get to the stage where the decision whether to wear one or not occurs - I find them a bit of an inconvenience, but no great hardship and so my decision will not be based on the belief that bein g asked to wear one is part of some evil masterplan that only the 'gifted and independent thinkers" can spot.

[the other bob wilson]

[QUOTE=Wales-Bales;5554094]

It's a mystery

And I bet many of them wouldn't admit to having had it even if they had done so.

[TWGL1]

[QUOTE=the other bob wilson;5554105]

And I bet many of them wouldn't admit to having had it even if they had done so.

They would , as it would demonstrate that it was nothing more than a cold , which is why fitness and healthy eating and weight control should have been promoted.

Instead they closed gyms and kept open fast foot outlets. Talk about following the science. Furthermore the rule makers were not scared enough themselves to have parties and mingle and visit optic establishments for eye tests.

Scotch Egg anyone ?

[Wales-Bales]

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5554110]

They would , as it would demonstrate that it was nothing more than a cold , which is why fitness and healthy eating and weight control should have been promoted.

Instead they closed gyms and kept open fast foot outlets. Talk about following the science. Furthermore the rule makers were not scared enough themselves to have parties and mingle and visit optic establishments for eye tests.

Scotch Egg anyone ?

Some people forget that the ones who made the rules exempted themselves from them. They were having drinks parties, and even travelling across London to have sex with other peoples wives!

[az city]

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5554110]

They would , as it would demonstrate that it was nothing more than a cold , which is why fitness and healthy eating and weight control should have been promoted.

Instead they closed gyms and kept open fast foot outlets. Talk about following the science. Furthermore the rule makers were not scared enough themselves to have parties and mingle and visit optic establishments for eye tests.

Scotch Egg anyone ?

Go on, tell us what expertise you have: virology, epidemiology, demography?

Or is this all this "knowledge" of Covid based on the college of "common sense" and the university of Google?

[jon1959]

[QUOTE=Wales-Bales;5554119]

Some people forget that the ones who made the rules exempted themselves from them. They were having drinks parties, and even travelling across London to have sex with other peoples wives!

I doubt many people forget that.

The contempt shown by selfish, entitled twats for their fellow citizens is a major reason why the governing party during Covid collapsed.

They may have considered the risk to themselves was minimal - but it was never about their risk.

[Wales-Bales]

[QUOTE=jon1959;5554128]

The contempt shown by selfish, entitled twats for their fellow citizens is a major reason why the governing party during Covid collapsed.

They may have considered the risk to themselves was minimal - but it was never about their risk.

Either that or they knew something we didn't.

[the other bob wilson]

Either that or they knew something we didn't.

Presumably you mean Covid wasn’t really the killer that we were told it was? That being the case, what was the point in lockdown? More pertinently, having got us all locked down, why are we now back living our lives as we did pre Covid? Maybe the plan’s too cunning for me

[Dorcus]

[QUOTE=Wales-Bales;5554134]

Either that or they knew something we didn't.

I doubt it. Some people are so up their own arse they think they are invincible.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

[QUOTE=Wales-Bales;5554134]

Either that or they knew something we didn't.

They knew exactly where the virus came from as did every single government on the planet, but chose to deceive the populous. The covid enquiry which has lasted a year so far and cost £200m doesn't even bother to ask the main question - where did it come from. It's not surprising that people don't trust what they're told by their lying governments..

[Heathblue]

Whats going down ? OMB, JD VANCE, DOGE all twitter checkmarks have gone grey have they smuggly decided something ?

[Gofer Blue]

I think everyone who contributes to this forum, whether COVID skeptic or otherwise, needs to be grateful that we didn't die alone in hospital with COVID during the pandemic without any visits from loved ones; also that thousands of dedicated medics and nursing staff continued to man the hospitals under the most difficult working conditions imaginable, caring for patients whilst they themselves were practically on their knees from exhaustion (and indeed some dying of COVID themselves in the process).

[TWGL1]

[QUOTE=az city;5554127]

Go on, tell us what expertise you have: virology, epidemiology, demography?

Or is this all this "knowledge" of Covid based on the college of "common sense" and the university of Google?

I’m not an expert but I’m a sexpert

What expertise is needed when the data acknowledges that the average Covid death is higher than the actual number of average deaths throughout the panny ?

Why try and deflect the science and published data?

Are you not thinking clearly?

[TWGL1]

[QUOTE=Dorcus;5554148]

I doubt it. Some people are so up their own arse they think they are invincible.

Invincible? Nobody is invincible however, people can see through the lies and propaganda and are healthy as ever without the need for any vaccines!

Are you still clapping for the NHS ?

[Gofer Blue]

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5554219]

Invincible? Nobody is invincible however, people can see through the lies and propaganda and are healthy as ever without the need for any vaccines!

Are you still clapping for the NHS ?

I think you need to thank those people who were vaccinated, which in turn made it more difficult for the virus to spread throughout the population as a whole.

See also my post #269.

[az city]

[QUOTE=TWGL1;5554216]

I’m not an expert but I’m a sexpert

What expertise is needed when the data acknowledges that the average Covid death is higher than the actual number of average deaths throughout the panny ?

Why try and deflect the science and published data?

Are you not thinking clearly?

I have no idea what that says. Could you try basic English? What does "average Covid death is higher" mean?

I think you're saying you have no expertise. Would that be correct?

[stevo]

Are you still clapping for the NHS ?

I find that comment highly offensive and sickening.

[delmbox]

Whats going down ? OMB, JD VANCE, DOGE all twitter checkmarks have gone grey have they smuggly decided something ?

It just means a government/multilateral organization or a government/multilateral official you absolute lunatic