FT: WATFORD 1 - 2 CARDIFF CITY. Match thread

[D. Advocaat]

Huge effort from the team today which allowed Robinson and Willock to show their quality, with an excellent showing from Ashford who contributed both in attack and defence. Feels like we did a bit of a number on Watford, perhaps using Riza's knowledge of their setup, as they rarely threatened despite having so much possession- Alnwick barely had to make a save.

[the other bob wilson]

And, once again, the discussion gravitates towards a player who was on the pitch for about ten minutes. We were in front for all but five minutes yesterday and this played a part in Colwill having so little game time. I’d like to think everyone is agreed that Colwill is a player more suited to trying to gain a lead, rather than preserve one and we were far more happy than normal to let our opponents have the ball.

As has been mentioned, there was less passing for passing’s sake and I think Chambers’ move into midfield had something to do with this. Im guessing here, but I think he’s been regarded as essential to our play out from the back policy, but he’s sometimes been lacking in the thing I’ll always believe is the main purpose of a defender (defending!) - we went back to basics to an extent yesterday, but im not sure Chambers, Siopis and Robertson is a midfield to get us enough wins in the second half of the season.

However, it’s really more about the squad in general than systems - we’ve won just five matches in half a season and how many of them have there been where we’ve been worth the three points? I’d say no more than five or six. - we’ve lost seven home games all of which have been deserved) and only Hull of the others have lost more than four. Credit to the players for yesterday, but the frustration is that on the rare occasions we play well, we show we have more potential than last season’s team.

[Cardiff Ultra]

Neither.

We'd be a better team with Colwill at 10, but he's a luxury that requires two other midfielders with more of the qualities that I list than our current options and wide players who work their socks off (Willock and El Ghazi have barely broken sweat all season). This is how teams can accommodate an attacking 10.

Look how average Man City look now that Silva, Gundogen and De Bruyne's legs have gone and they are missing Rodri's physicality.

So, I'm going to say it; Colwill is one of the few players we have who has the ability to rise above our current malaise but the imbalance (a kind word for crapness) of the midfield and the wide players makes it, on times, right to leave him out.

Its not often that you see such a reasoned post on the subject of Colwill, Id agree 100%.

[Tuerto]

And, once again, the discussion gravitates towards a player who was on the pitch for about ten minutes. We were in front for all but five minutes yesterday and this played a part in Colwill having so little game time. I’d like to think everyone is agreed that Colwill is a player more suited to trying to gain a lead, rather than preserve one and we were far more happy than normal to let our opponents have the ball.

As has been mentioned, there was less passing for passing’s sake and I think Chambers’ move into midfield had something to do with this. Im guessing here, but I think he’s been regarded as essential to our play out from the back policy, but he’s sometimes been lacking in the thing I’ll always believe is the main purpose of a defender (defending!) - we went back to basics to an extent yesterday, but im not sure Chambers, Siopis and Robertson is a midfield to get us enough wins in the second half of the season.

However, it’s really more about the squad in general than systems - we’ve won just five matches in half a season and how many of them have there been where we’ve been worth the three points? I’d say no more than five or six. - we’ve lost seven home games all of which have been deserved) and only Hull of the others have lost more than four. Credit to the players for yesterday, but the frustration is that on the rare occasions we play well, we show we have more potential than last season’s team.

Just to clear things up, it gravitated towards Colwill the other day because you omitted him from criticism as a reply in a thread. That was you, nobody else, up until then he hadn't been mentioned, so less of the sanctimonious stuff please.

[Jordi Culé]

As pleasing for a very irregular away supporter to see how City showed commitment, fought for every ball, resilience and the odd flash of technique and passing through lines to get a result, that style of play, those players and the coach isn't going to get them out of the shiite.

Sorry to piiss on everyone's chips.

I enjoyed the game though which is the first time I can say that for an age.

[the other bob wilson]

Just to clear things up, it gravitated towards Colwill the other day because you omitted him from criticism as a reply in a thread. That was you, nobody else, up until then he hadn't been mentioned, so less of the sanctimonious stuff please.

Hang on a sec, Colwill became a subject in another thread because I didn't mention him in it? How does that one work out? What happened is that you jumped to what was a wrong conclusion about my opinion of Colwill - I made it clear on my blog and in a later post in the thread you refer to what I thought of Colwill's recent performances.

As for this thread, sorry for being "sanctimonious", but I struggle to see why Colwill should be a discussion point in a match thread on a game where he came on for just the dying minutes and had little effect, good or bad, on proceedings.

[The Lone Gunman]

As for this thread, sorry for being "sanctimonious", but I struggle to see why Colwill should be a discussion point in a match thread on a game where he came on for just the dying minutes and had little effect, good or bad, on proceedings.

I can answer that. It's because he was dropped.

[the other bob wilson]

I can answer that. It's because he was dropped.

It's happened to him a few times recently though and, although I may have missed the discussion, I can't remember much being said about it on here at the time (think he may have been left out for the first time under Riza for the game at Sheffield Wednesday).

You didn't see the game yesterday did you? As has been hinted at in this thread, we placed less emphasis on possession and, although I wouldn't say we played long ball, we were more direct than we have been this season with more emphasis on getting it forward quicker..

For me, more relevant than what Colwill did for a few minutes when we were trying to wind down the clock is whether we look to play the same way on Wednesday and whether Colwill will be in the starting eleven. There may have been a degree of squad rotation involved yesterday when you consider that we have another league game on the weekend as opposed to the Third round of the FA Cup which is traditionally played on the first weekend in a new year.

[Tuerto]

Hang on a sec, Colwill became a subject in another thread because I didn't mention him in it? How does that one work out? What happened is that you jumped to what was a wrong conclusion about my opinion of Colwill - I made it clear on my blog and in a later post in the thread you refer to what I thought of Colwill's recent performances.

As for this thread, sorry for being "sanctimonious", but I struggle to see why Colwill should be a discussion point in a match thread on a game where he came on for just the dying minutes and had little effect, good or bad, on proceedings.

I started a thread about Ashford, complimenting him on his goal, his all round play in the move, I was really impressed with his composure and awareness. Then I said that we need to go easy on him, not to big him up to early (He may not be the Messiah) and that he may need protecting and used properly in order to benefit his development. You came along and said that the only players that needed protection were those over the age of 25, so I think you know what or who you were referring to. You didn't think that by coming out with that, that nobody was going to mention Colwill considering he's been an ever present in the terrible run we have seen over the past 2 monitor so? C'mon, you're way to intelligent to think that.

[bluebirds17]

Just to clear things up, it gravitated towards Colwill the other day because you omitted him from criticism as a reply in a thread. That was you, nobody else, up until then he hadn't been mentioned, so less of the sanctimonious stuff please.

Christ you are boring.

Slag Colwill off because some fans rate him, slag him off because someone didn't mention him in their match report, slag him off when he's only played 10 minutes in a win.

There's no point having a genuine discussion over him because you act like a scorned lover.

[the other bob wilson]

I started a thread about Ashford, complimenting him on his goal, his all round play in the move, I was really impressed with his composure and awareness. Then I said that we need to go easy on him, not to big him up to early (He may not be the Messiah) and that he may need protecting and used properly in order to benefit his development. You came along and said that the only players that needed protection were those over the age of 25, so I think you know what or who you were referring to. You didn't think that by coming out with that, that nobody was going to mention Colwill considering he's been an ever present in the terrible run we have seen over the past 2 monitor so? C'mon, you're way to intelligent to think that.

Truth is, I was thinking primarily of Robertson, (plus Daland and Fish) when I said that because I’ve been having a go at players who signed in the summer since we played Oxford and I wouldn’t want to include the younger players in any criticism about recently signed players with a dodgy attitude.

I named players who I think have been letting the team down in recent games in my Oxfordblog piece and included Colwill to show that they weren’t entirely senior or recently signed players. I may have fought Colwill’s corner in the past and will do in the future if he gets his act together, but, albeit at a lower level, his younger brother, with his nine goals, is affecting games far more than he is at the moment.

[Tuerto]

Christ you are boring.

Slag Colwill off because some fans rate him, slag him off because someone didn't mention him in their match report, slag him off when he's only played 10 minutes in a win.

There's no point having a genuine discussion over him because you act like a scorned lover.

I haven't done any of that you complete menace of a clown. Go back on my posts and see what I have written, I always give Colwill credit for the good things he does. You're part of the weird crew that seemingly takes it personal whenever someone mentions him, there's a fair few of you, you stifle any debate with your emotive nonsense. I'll leave it to you and the rest of the crew.

[Tuerto]

Truth is, I was thinking primarily of Robertson, (plus Daland and Fish) when I said that because I’ve been having a go at players who signed in the summer since we played Oxford and I wouldn’t want to include the younger players in any criticism about recently signed players with a dodgy attitude.

I named players who I think have been letting the team down in recent games in my Oxfordblog piece and included Colwill to show that they weren’t entirely senior or recently signed players. I may have fought Colwill’s corner in the past and will do in the future if he gets his act together, but, albeit at a lower level, his younger brother, with his nine goals, is affecting games far more than he is at the moment.

Ok Bob, I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick, I respect you, enjoy your contributions.

[AdrianAlston]

I haven't done any of that you complete menace of a clown. Go back on my posts and see what I have written, I always give Colwill credit for the good things he does. You're part of the weird crew that seemingly takes it personal whenever someone mentions him, there's a fair few of you, you stifle any debate with your emotive nonsense. I'll leave it to you and the rest of the crew.

A couple of observations from this post, firstly Colwill was introduced into this thread by the the anti-Colwill brigade not the polar opposites.

Secondly, Colwill was not responsible for our loss against Oxford, actually he wasn't great but he was also not amongst worst performers. That said, whilst I am in the pro-Colwill brigade, I understood the reasons for him being dropped; even agreed with it.

Thirdly, you use the word 'debate'; that would be welcomed. But the irrationals who champion Th Colwillcaust rarely debate his (obvious) failings or his (obvious) strengths. All we get is "he's sh1t" etc

Finally, what's with the word 'weird' again; people are allowed to have a different opinion to you without having some character flaw. 95% of your posts suggest that you are better than that.

Can I suggest that Colwill has a new nickname -'Brian'? 🤔

[The Lone Gunman]

A couple of observations from this post, firstly Colwill was introduced into this thread by the anti-Colwill brigade not the polar opposites.

One observation: Colwill was introduced into this thread by me and I'm not anti-Colwill in any way, shape or form. I think he's overrated by some City fans, I reckon the continual defence of his performances by certain individuals borders on the bizarre, I believe he's been in poor form since early-November, I've found some of his recent performances irritating due to his habit of trying flicks and tricks when a basic pass would be more suitable, and I thought he was really poor at Oxford. None of that means I'm anti-Colwill, but the fact that you think it does highlights just how odd the discussions about this particular player have become.

In the words of Colwill's international manager, who doesn't select him: "I've expected more."

It's no more complicated than that as far as I'm concerned.

[Father Dougal]

He is a fascinating one though.

If he left here it wouldn't surprise me if a much better side took him and he excelled. Mind you also wouldn't surprise me if ended up wandering around leagues 1 and 2 having the occasional good game and amazing goals that went viral every now and then.

I wonder had he been around when we had mcphail ledley chopra bothroyd Burke bellamy mccormack et al if he would have been outstanding and added to it or just been left behind by them. I have no idea.

In his defence for a player like him the city of the last 6 years must be a pretty depressing place to try and play and show what you have. Would take someone pretty damn special to excel in this set up- nobody else has after all.

[The Lone Gunman]

He is a fascinating one though.

He is, which is why he gets talked about so much.

I very much enjoy watching him play when he's on form. By contrast, I find him frustrating to watch when he's out of form (and let's be honest, he's very inconsistent).

What amuses me is the excuses some will make for him when he's not at his best. And it also tickles me if people suggest he's played well when he obviously hasn't. For instance, after the Oxford game, Busby Dandruff posted: "Colwill was decent today. He made plenty of misplaced passes but was still head and shoulders above the rest..."

Absolute nonsense of course, but by no means an isolated opinion. Some fans seem to believe Colwill can do no wrong and when he fails to perform (which, sadly, has been more often than not this season), it's down to the players around him, the team formation, the position he's playing, his manager, etc etc.

I'm with Craig Bellamy. By now I would have expected more, especially given the promise he showed when he initially arrived on the scene.

[AdrianAlston]

So, Colwill isn't the problem it is those that defend him. Bloody weirdos.

In fairness to Mr Dandruff if he remembers the long throw specialist (just before my time), after whom is named, he has witnessed a fair bit of mediocrity over the last 50+ years and the (all to) occasional glimpses of premiership quality offered by Colwill, offers a bit of escapism amongst the gloom.

Is Colwill destined to be the new David Giles or is he just a very naughty boy?

[Dorcus]

He is, which is why he gets talked about so much.

I very much enjoy watching him play when he's on form. By contrast, I find him frustrating to watch when he's out of form (and let's be honest, he's very inconsistent).

What amuses me is the excuses some will make for him when he's not at his best. And it also tickles me if people suggest he's played well when he obviously hasn't. For instance, after the Oxford game, Busby Dandruff posted: "Colwill was decent today. He made plenty of misplaced passes but was still head and shoulders above the rest..."

Absolute nonsense of course, but by no means an isolated opinion. Some fans seem to believe Colwill can do no wrong and when he fails to perform (which, sadly, has been more often than not this season), it's down to the players around him, the team formation, the position he's playing, his manager, etc etc.

I'm with Craig Bellamy. By now I would have expected more, especially given the promise he showed when he initially arrived on the scene.

I like him. He's not the real deal and sometimes can be frustrating, especially when not on form but when he clicks we look a far better team for his contributions.

He definitely shouldn't be immune to criticism but
I do think he is judged differently to others because he is inherently higher quality.

[Dave Blue]

He is a fascinating one though.

If he left here it wouldn't surprise me if a much better side took him and he excelled. Mind you also wouldn't surprise me if ended up wandering around leagues 1 and 2 having the occasional good game and amazing goals that went viral every now and then.

I wonder had he been around when we had mcphail ledley chopra bothroyd Burke bellamy mccormack et al if he would have been outstanding and added to it or just been left behind by them. I have no idea.

In his defence for a player like him the city of the last 6 years must be a pretty depressing place to try and play and show what you have. Would take someone pretty damn special to excel in this set up- nobody else has after all.

I think that last sentence summed it up nicely.

[Crisp White Lines]

Colwill reminds me of a kid who played football at my school.

He was talented and capable of (comparable) brilliance in our school yard kick-abouts.

But he was also capable of a bit of selfishness, or showboating, or doing some unnecessary trick when it was far easier to pass to someone else nearby.

He would frequently find himself on his arse when some (far less talented) kid would shoulder-charge him and speed away with the ball.

Colwill should, by now, have developed beyond the schoolyard way of showing his abilities. He should be more intelligent in his decisions.

I truly get excited by his football, and hope he benefits from the input of people like Ramsey and Bellamy.

[Tuerto]

He is a fascinating one though.

If he left here it wouldn't surprise me if a much better side took him and he excelled. Mind you also wouldn't surprise me if ended up wandering around leagues 1 and 2 having the occasional good game and amazing goals that went viral every now and then.

I wonder had he been around when we had mcphail ledley chopra bothroyd Burke bellamy mccormack et al if he would have been outstanding and added to it or just been left behind by them. I have no idea.

In his defence for a player like him the city of the last 6 years must be a pretty depressing place to try and play and show what you have. Would take someone pretty damn special to excel in this set up- nobody else has after all.

What a great post, you're spot on in my opinion. Colwill is talked about because we don't know what we're going to get from week to week, he's talked about because he has flashes of brilliance, he's talked about because he has natural abilty, flair etc. He's also talked about because it doesn't happen enough, because he can look like he's sometimes lost out on the playing field, because he can make basic mistakes that he should have ironed out by now, and because for someone who looks composed in possession, he struggles in front of goal. So, for me, he' worth talking about in the same way there were endless posts on players like whittingham and Mc Phail, although he's not at their level yet. The thing is, i've raised legitimate points about him and his game, because that's what we do here, and it almost upsets ome people, they rarely talk about his game, just say he's a game winner and they'd play him every week. Not enough really, is it? Fair play to you for raising some really good talking points.

[BlueArmy 86]

Did someone say Colwillcaust

[the other bob wilson]

Ok Bob, I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick, I respect you, enjoy your contributions.

[olderblue]

What a great post, you're spot on in my opinion. Colwill is talked about because we don't know what we're going to get from week to week, he's talked about because he has flashes of brilliance, he's talked about because he has natural abilty, flair etc. He's also talked about because it doesn't happen enough, because he can look like he's sometimes lost out on the playing field, because he can make basic mistakes that he should have ironed out by now, and because for someone who looks composed in possession, he struggles in front of goal. So, for me, he' worth talking about in the same way there were endless posts on players like whittingham and Mc Phail, although he's not at their level yet. The thing is, i've raised legitimate points about him and his game, because that's what we do here, and it almost upsets ome people, they rarely talk about his game, just say he's a game winner and they'd play him every week. Not enough really, is it? Fair play to you for raising some really good talking points.

It’s another well thought out assessment of Colwill and some really good points raised in your post

One question I’d ask is do you think Colwill would get to the levels expected if he’d had better coaching?

Let’s be honest about it even with the current one, we have endured some absolute rubbish served up for the last 4-5 coaches in charge

The fact that Colwill is playing is probably in-spite of them rather than because of any real quality coaching that’s been offered

The one thing that I think fans appreciate about him is his willingness to always look for the ball, he doesn’t hide

Should he have scored more goals, probably
Should we have seen more assists, definitely, but there again who has had in front of him who’s on the same page? Certainly not Kanga, Meite or El Ghazi (didn’t I get that one completely wrong 😑)

You don’t know what you’re going to get when Colwill gets the ball, and that’s half the excitement of watching a skilful player with talent

There’s been very little to get you off the edge of your seat for the last few seasons

It maybe that he does drift away down the leagues, I hope not, The Lone Gunman says in this thread that he expects more from him, and he’s probably right in terms of goals and assists

I still think he’s a special talent and enjoy watching him play, I can’t think there’s too many others that fans genuinely love to see

I’d start him, build a team around him, there again I’d have more of the U21’s in the team rather than the journey men we currently allow to steal a living