Riveria of the Middle East

[truthpaste]

To quote my good book: ‘Jesus wept’!

Hardly.

[William Treseder]

He is revelling in promoting war crimes and crimes against humanity. On top of genocide.

On the ruins of homes, hospitals, schools, churches and mosques where 45,000 have already been killed by US and European bombs dropped by the Israeli Occupation Forces and where a probable 15-20,000 more bodies are lying unrecovered and uncounted under the rubble. 70% of the dead are women and children.

Ethnic cleansing to create Greater Israel has become ethnic cleansing to create Trumpworld (and Greater Israel).

Does he understand what he is saying? Does he care?

Netanyahu and Trump - the worst dregs of humanity with (it seems) the blank cheque needed to fulfil their sickest fantasies!

It wasn’t Israel who started this round of aggression was it?

[jon1959]

It wasn’t Israel who started this round of aggression was it?

Depends how you choose to define ‘this round of aggression’. But even if you start the clock with Hamas crossing the border in October 2023, what does that have to do with Trump’s words ( or my post)?

[William Treseder]

Depends how you choose to define ‘this round of aggression’. But even if you start the clock with Hamas crossing the border in October 2023, what does that have to do with Trump’s words ( or my post)?

It doesn’t depend on anything. Hamas started this latest feud by bombing Israel in 2023.

[truthpaste]

It doesn’t depend on anything. Hamas started this latest feud by bombing Israel in 2023.

Indeed.

[Dorcus]

Hamas might have began this "latest" round of aggression but surely as Hell 40-50000 innocent civilians didn't!

[William Treseder]

Hamas might have began this "latest" round of aggression but surely as Hell 40-50000 innocent civilians didn't!

What about the innocent Israelis that died?
We could go round in circles couldn’t we?

[William Treseder]

Hamas might have began this "latest" round of aggression but surely as Hell 40-50000 innocent civilians didn't!

As I’ve mentioned numerous times. 99% of the worlds population are peace loving people, but the fate of many are guided by the hands of few.
It’s been the same globally since time began.

[Dorcus]

What about the innocent Israelis that died?
We could go round in circles couldn’t we?

Agreed but none of these people would have died the same way if Israelis hadn't suddenly hijacked someone else's land and way of life.

[Dorcus]

As I’ve mentioned numerous times. 99% of the worlds population are peace loving people, but the fate of many are guided by the hands of few.
It’s been the same globally since time began.

Do you honestly believe 99% of the population are peace loving? I certainly don't. And the vast proportion of those people have not been subjected to ethnic cleansing and hostile appropriation of their Homeland: I wonder how we might react to that in the UK, let alone anywhere else in the World?

[truthpaste]

Agreed but none of these people would have died the same way if Israelis hadn't suddenly hijacked someone else's land and way of life.

Is that so? If we look back as far as is possible then this is what we find re Palestine:-

*Palestines were formerly known as Philistines. The Philistines lived in the area known as Philistia, which included the five city-states of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gath and Ekron.

1)Before the modern state of Israel there was the British mandate, Not a Palestinian state.


2) Before the British mandate there was the ottoman empire, Not a Palestinian state.


3) Before the ottoman empire there was the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt, Not a Palestinian state.


4)Before the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt there was the ayyubid dynasty, Not a Palestinian state.
Godfrey of bouillon conquered it in 1099.


5) Before the ayyubid dynasty there was the christian kingdom of Jerusalem, Not a Palestinian state.


6) Before the christian kingdom of Jerusalem there was the Fatimid caliphate, Not a Palestinian state.


7) Before the Fatimid caliphate there was the byzantine empire, Not a Palestinian state.


8)) Before the byzantine empire there was the Roman empire, Not a Palestinian state.


9) Before the Roman empire there was the hasmonean dynasty, Not a Palestinian state.


10)Before the hasmonean dynasty there was the Seleucid empire,Not a Palestinian state.


11) Before the Seleucid empire there was the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon, Not a Palestinian state.


12) Before the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon there was the Persian empire, Not a Palestinian state.


13) Before the Persian empire there was the Babylonian empire, Not a Palestinian state.


14) Before the Babylonian empire there was the kingdoms of Israel and Judea, Not a Palestinian state.


15) Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judea there was the kingdom of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.


16) Before the kingdom of Israel there was the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.


17) Before the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel there was the individual state of Canaan, Not a Palestinian state.


In fact in this corner of the earth there was everything but a Palestinian state!

[Dorcus]

Is that so? If we look back as far as is possible then this is what we find re Palestine:-

*Palestines were formerly known as Philistines. The Philistines lived in the area known as Philistia, which included the five city-states of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gath and Ekron.

1)Before the modern state of Israel there was the British mandate, Not a Palestinian state.


2) Before the British mandate there was the ottoman empire, Not a Palestinian state.


3) Before the ottoman empire there was the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt, Not a Palestinian state.


4)Before the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt there was the ayyubid dynasty, Not a Palestinian state.
Godfrey of bouillon conquered it in 1099.


5) Before the ayyubid dynasty there was the christian kingdom of Jerusalem, Not a Palestinian state.


6) Before the christian kingdom of Jerusalem there was the Fatimid caliphate, Not a Palestinian state.


7) Before the Fatimid caliphate there was the byzantine empire, Not a Palestinian state.


8)) Before the byzantine empire there was the Roman empire, Not a Palestinian state.


9) Before the Roman empire there was the hasmonean dynasty, Not a Palestinian state.


10)Before the hasmonean dynasty there was the Seleucid empire,Not a Palestinian state.


11) Before the Seleucid empire there was the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon, Not a Palestinian state.


12) Before the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon there was the Persian empire, Not a Palestinian state.


13) Before the Persian empire there was the Babylonian empire, Not a Palestinian state.


14) Before the Babylonian empire there was the kingdoms of Israel and Judea, Not a Palestinian state.


15) Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judea there was the kingdom of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.


16) Before the kingdom of Israel there was the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.


17) Before the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel there was the individual state of Canaan, Not a Palestinian state.


In fact in this corner of the earth there was everything but a Palestinian state!

You could go back far earlier than that to prove your assertion fatuous. And indeed if it held even a jot of moral weight then surely we should hand the USA back to the native settlers from Siberia and deport all the White invaders and their Black slaves?

[jeepster]

Is that so? If we look back as far as is possible then this is what we find re Palestine:-

*Palestines were formerly known as Philistines. The Philistines lived in the area known as Philistia, which included the five city-states of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gath and Ekron.

1)Before the modern state of Israel there was the British mandate, Not a Palestinian state.


2) Before the British mandate there was the ottoman empire, Not a Palestinian state.


3) Before the ottoman empire there was the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt, Not a Palestinian state.


4)Before the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt there was the ayyubid dynasty, Not a Palestinian state.
Godfrey of bouillon conquered it in 1099.


5) Before the ayyubid dynasty there was the christian kingdom of Jerusalem, Not a Palestinian state.


6) Before the christian kingdom of Jerusalem there was the Fatimid caliphate, Not a Palestinian state.


7) Before the Fatimid caliphate there was the byzantine empire, Not a Palestinian state.


8)) Before the byzantine empire there was the Roman empire, Not a Palestinian state.


9) Before the Roman empire there was the hasmonean dynasty, Not a Palestinian state.


10)Before the hasmonean dynasty there was the Seleucid empire,Not a Palestinian state.


11) Before the Seleucid empire there was the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon, Not a Palestinian state.


12) Before the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon there was the Persian empire, Not a Palestinian state.


13) Before the Persian empire there was the Babylonian empire, Not a Palestinian state.


14) Before the Babylonian empire there was the kingdoms of Israel and Judea, Not a Palestinian state.


15) Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judea there was the kingdom of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.


16) Before the kingdom of Israel there was the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.


17) Before the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel there was the individual state of Canaan, Not a Palestinian state.


In fact in this corner of the earth there was everything but a Palestinian state!

So why do the Welsh,Irish and Scottish claim our right to our land?
Also other countries around the world.
Why does it all evolve around Israel? Is it because it is in the book of fairy stories?

[truthpaste]

You could go back far earlier than that to prove your assertion fatuous. And indeed if it held even a jot of moral weight then surely we should hand the USA back to the native settlers from Siberia and deport all the White invaders and their Black slaves?

The key point is this, it has never been a palestinian state, period.

[Dorcus]

The key point is this, it has never been a palestinian state, period.

Totally wrong! The key point is land belongs to no one but torturing people to usurp it for gain is morally reprehensible.

[Canton Kev]

There’s a Norman keep in the middle of town. Do you propose the French military should kick us pesky Welsh out?

If they did, the Italians might get a bit arsey considering below the Norman keep are Roman remains.

[Tuerto]

Is that so? If we look back as far as is possible then this is what we find re Palestine:-

*Palestines were formerly known as Philistines. The Philistines lived in the area known as Philistia, which included the five city-states of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gath and Ekron.

1)Before the modern state of Israel there was the British mandate, Not a Palestinian state.


2) Before the British mandate there was the ottoman empire, Not a Palestinian state.


3) Before the ottoman empire there was the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt, Not a Palestinian state.


4)Before the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt there was the ayyubid dynasty, Not a Palestinian state.
Godfrey of bouillon conquered it in 1099.


5) Before the ayyubid dynasty there was the christian kingdom of Jerusalem, Not a Palestinian state.


6) Before the christian kingdom of Jerusalem there was the Fatimid caliphate, Not a Palestinian state.


7) Before the Fatimid caliphate there was the byzantine empire, Not a Palestinian state.


8)) Before the byzantine empire there was the Roman empire, Not a Palestinian state.


9) Before the Roman empire there was the hasmonean dynasty, Not a Palestinian state.


10)Before the hasmonean dynasty there was the Seleucid empire,Not a Palestinian state.


11) Before the Seleucid empire there was the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon, Not a Palestinian state.


12) Before the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon there was the Persian empire, Not a Palestinian state.


13) Before the Persian empire there was the Babylonian empire, Not a Palestinian state.


14) Before the Babylonian empire there was the kingdoms of Israel and Judea, Not a Palestinian state.


15) Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judea there was the kingdom of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.


16) Before the kingdom of Israel there was the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel, Not a Palestinian state.


17) Before the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel there was the individual state of Canaan, Not a Palestinian state.


In fact in this corner of the earth there was everything but a Palestinian state!

So what you're saying is that the Palestinian people have been oppressed and denied even more so than we initially thought. Wow! good work

[jon1959]

It doesn’t depend on anything. Hamas started this latest feud by bombing Israel in 2023.

If that is so - I disagree - it is still irrelevant to the Trump plan or to my post. Why do you think the Hamas attack (and the Israeli genocide that followed) justifies ethnic cleansing? You clearly do but have avoided saying why.

[jon1959]

The key point is this, it has never been a palestinian state, period.

That is not a key point. It is not really a point at all.

The Palestinian people have lived in the land we know as Palestine for millennia. It is irrelevant whether or not there was a state called Palestine during all that time. They come from that land, unlike most of the non Arab population of Israel who come from Warsaw, Lvov, Paris and New York.

Denying the existence of Palestinians and Palestine has a long and ugly history - and it has a name too.

[William Treseder]

If that is so - I disagree - it is still irrelevant to the Trump plan or to my post. Why do you think the Hamas attack (and the Israeli genocide that followed) justifies ethnic cleansing? You clearly do but have avoided saying why.

You have jumped to a massive conclusion there. Which is absolute bollox. Nowhere have I said I support Trumps latest fruitcake ramblings.
My post was more aimed at you going on about the “US and European bombs being dropped by Israel. Hamas are just as bad, attacking Israel and causing the latest atrocities. It’s never ending mindless violence.
Anyway, I’m bowing out at this point. You and others can argue until the cows come home.

[jeepster]

The key point is this, it has never been a palestinian state, period.

So says Netanyahu's UK spokesman.

[Gofer Blue]

Or they’re not too keen on 6 million people being displaced into their country unwillingly.

This is a question I posed on the forum some time back when this latest conflict arose.

If these neighbouring Arab states were concerned about their fellow Arabs in Gaza why did they not offer those who wanted to flee the conflict temporary accommodation in their lands soon after the October attack and the subsequent Israeli bombardment.

The fact that they still don't want Palestinians in their countries despite the widespread slaughter and destruction of infrastructure in Gaza speaks volumes. The current view seems to be that they don't want to be seen to be complicit in an ethnic cleansing campaign.

I disagree. I think they are scared of the thought of the remnants of Hamas, and a significant number of Palestinians who support Hamas, establishing themselves in their countries, thereby creating a new breeding ground for terrorists in their own backyard.

[truthpaste]

This is a question I posed on the forum some time back when this latest conflict arose.

If these neighbouring Arab states were concerned about their fellow Arabs in Gaza why did they not offer those who wanted to flee the conflict temporary accommodation in their lands soon after the October attack and the subsequent Israeli bombardment.

The fact that they still don't want Palestinians in their countries despite the widespread slaughter and destruction of infrastructure in Gaza speaks volumes. The current view seems to be that they don't want to be seen to be complicit in an ethnic cleansing campaign.

I disagree. I think they are scared of the thought of the remnants of Hamas, and a significant number of Palestinians who support Hamas, establishing themselves in their countries, thereby creating a new breeding ground for terrorists in their own backyard.

Spot on.

[jon1959]

Most of the states neighbouring Israel and Palestine have rulers who consistently act in their material self interest. But they also have populations who in large majorities support the Palestinian people in the face of systemic discrimination and ethnic cleansing. Most of the rulers are responding to the opinions of their public.

They also understand international law and the concept of ‘crimes against humanity’ even if their own record on that stinks.

It is interesting to see who is shining a light on neighbouring states for supposedly not taking in the population of Gaza - even if that was wanted or possible with millions of refugees already inside their borders and a genocidal siege underway.

Those same posters are silent when it comes to the state (and its allies and enablers) that have created this humanitarian crisis (as a deliberate policy according to its political and military leadership) have failed in every responsibility they have as an occupying power, have ignored and sneered at international law and have boasted about their war crimes.

Gofer seems genuinely concerned about individual child victims - but not enough to break ranks with Truthpaste and his odious, racist, victim blaming views.

The solution lies within Israel/Palestine with aid, medical care, temporary shelters, rebuilding the neighbourhoods that have been levelled, security from an international force. It also requires an end to apartheid and the violence of illegal settlements and a political settlement that gives peace, justice and equal rights to people of all races and religions (or none) within one state or if necessary, two states.

But that is not the message from Trump’s White House or from the book of Stone Age foundation myths that inform the cult thinking on here.

[truthpaste]

Most of the states neighbouring Israel and Palestine have rulers who consistently act in their material self interest. But they also haveGofer seems genuinely concerned about individual child victims - but not enough to break ranks with Truthpaste and his odious, racist, victim blaming views.

The solution lies within Israel/Palestine with aid, medical care, temporary shelters, rebuilding the neighbourhoods that have been levelled, security from an international force. It also requires an end to apartheid and the violence of illegal settlements and a political settlement that gives peace, justice and equal rights to people of all races and religions (or none) within one state or if necessary, two states.

But that is not the message from Trump’s White House or from the book of Stone Age foundation myths that inform the cult thinking on here.

You hand out labels like 'odious' and call for peace yet you hate anything and anyone connected to the Man who taught peace and explained how we can each obtain perfect and permanent peace; in fact until He arrives (as planned) to deal with this Abrahamic issue then you and people like you will churn out the same empty and misguided rhetoric.