Quote Originally Posted by jon1959 View Post
This might be an interesting discussion if it stays on the subject that Wozza began.

I have never described myself as patriotic. That to me implies 'false pride' and 'my country right or wrong'. Samuel Johnson's line 'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel' is still true today - although he used that as a put down of Pitt's misuse of 'patriotism' for political purposes.

A sense of identity or of roots does not require pride or patriotism. As I said above I feel both pride and shame at different parts of Welsh history - but mainly connection. Whether we had a say or not in what made our nation seems to be missing the point. Identity is not all about personal achievement - it is a messy and often irrational and confused set of emotional ties. I don't see the point in over-analysing that.

Also I'm not convinced that New York Irish and Sheffield Welsh have the same experience. One is about people who have mainly never set foot in Ireland, distance, disconnect, 'Old Country' tales, plastic shamrocks, franchise Guinness and a background of Tammany Hall and the NYPD (similar in Boston). The other is about a short drive to the border, watching my team at away grounds close to my home and walking the streets of Cardiff up to a dozen times a year!

And our bucket hats are better!
Agree with a lot of this but why do you interpret it as a "false pride" ?

Patriotism is just the word for love of ones country, no? I view it as such, in much the same way as one can love their family or city or community etc. it doesn't mean refusing to accept their many flaws.

I'm not sure if I'm patriotic. I want the best for my country but feel quite sad for it too and feel we have less and less holding us all together. I actually feel quite lost identity wise tbh. Even Cardiff City is lessened since the rebrand.