"I'm convinced that death is not the end for us whatever happens after that"

[Gofer Blue]

Rather than agree or disagree I'll treat the questions as if they were open questions - and I'm afraid that my responses will be brief as I'm on holiday and simply typing on my phone.

1. Of course I can't state that a supreme being doesn't exist. I don't think there is any evidence currently available to support the concept of a supreme being but if reliable evidence we're to be available I would re-evaluate, of course. I have no vested interest in denying what is true.

My answer therefore contradicts truthpaste's assertion regarding this specific matter.

2. I don't know if we have a purpose in life in a philosophical sense. The second part of the question therefore doesn't have any relevance as I don't self-determined a purpose.
I think that the concept of altruism has existed for millennia and has straddled peoples of all denominations, races and cultures but that is bye the bye

3. I'll take this question as being less literal than considering the cessation of heart activity. I can't definitively state that there is no 'afterlife', re-incarnation, hell, Valhalla, Happy Hunting Ground, Hades, Purgatory or Paradise - but there is no evidence thereof that I find convincing. As we humans live in a tiny speck of a planet in a Universe we can't even define the size of and which supposedly contains up to a septillion of stars, it seems that relatively poorly educated humans in the past came up with the most parochial of belief systems. To imagine that a creator of those septillion stars instigated a talking snake, a talking donkey and turning people to salt in just one area of the Earth and thousands of years ago seems rather laughable. This creator seems unable to even have the majority of the population on this wee planet believe in him/her/it. I consider it to be hugely laughable fare but that is another matter.

Point 1: OK, fair enough. Obviously for you the Bible is not an authoritative source, so you would require additional non-Biblical evidence. The usual non-Biblical evidence for a supreme being/intelligence who created the universe and everything in it is found in the Anthropic Principle, which I’m sure you are aware of.

I found this summary of the A.P. on the Internet: Clearly, humanity’s very existence shows that the current structure of the universe and the values taken by the constants of nature permit life to exist. Indeed, it appears that many features of the universe that are necessary for the evolution and persistence of life are the results of unusual coincidences between different values of the constants of nature—quantities such as the mass of the electron, the strength of gravity, or the lifetime of the neutron. The significance, if any, of these coincidences is not understood. What is understood is that, if these quantities were slightly altered, then no form of complexity or life could exist in the universe.

I like the “unusual coincidences” bit. A hint of intelligent design there perhaps (?) but obviously intellectual suicide to say so outright! I am aware of the counter arguments of course, such as the multiverse concept and the endless cycle of regular expansion from, then reduction to, the initial singularity which repeats itself over and over until the current universe which we observe is arrived at. I guess any attempt to eradicate the need for a creator God is desirable?


Point 2: That’s an honest response! I believe that God created life and therefore every living human being is precious to him, and each one unique. Of course with our modern day knowledge of DNA we can confidently state that yes, each person is indeed unique. There never has been a TBG or a Gofer Blue before in the history of the universe nor will there ever be another one in the future. Before I became a Christian I would have given the same response as you – I didn’t know if my life had a purpose in the philosophical sense. Since becoming a Christian I know that the purpose of my life is to reflect the love of Christ/God not just in words but in actions.

Regarding some sort of in-built altruism, I can agree and at the same time disagree with you if that makes sense. Yes, I believe each person has a built-in God-given sense of conscience which can be outwardly portrayed as altruism. However this trait can, and is often, suppressed by pure selfishness and greed and like civilisation in the general sense, is only like a thin veneer which can easily be stripped away.


Point 3: I agree with you in that it seems ridiculous that a God who created umpteen billions of stars and planets should be interested in us humans on an apparently insignificant speck of rock spinning around a bog-standard star in a galaxy which is just one of billions! However as the psalmist wonders: “When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him?”

Like you I cannot prove or disprove there is an afterlife but I believe in Jesus and if he said that there is, then that’s good enough for me. I am well aware of the “Jesus was either mad, bad or deluded” debate but from my examination of his life, teachings and works he was none of these things! Even if it did turn out to be untrue then it would not matter that much to me as “pie in the sky when you die” has never been my motivation to live as Jesus expects me to live. The greatest accolade I would like to have is that after I’m gone, someone would say that they were glad that I had lived.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Point 1: OK, fair enough. Obviously for you the Bible is not an authoritative source, so you would require additional non-Biblical evidence. The usual non-Biblical evidence for a supreme being/intelligence who created the universe and everything in it is found in the Anthropic Principle, which I’m sure you are aware of.

I found this summary of the A.P. on the Internet: Clearly, humanity’s very existence shows that the current structure of the universe and the values taken by the constants of nature permit life to exist. Indeed, it appears that many features of the universe that are necessary for the evolution and persistence of life are the results of unusual coincidences between different values of the constants of nature—quantities such as the mass of the electron, the strength of gravity, or the lifetime of the neutron. The significance, if any, of these coincidences is not understood. What is understood is that, if these quantities were slightly altered, then no form of complexity or life could exist in the universe.

I like the “unusual coincidences” bit. A hint of intelligent design there perhaps (?) but obviously intellectual suicide to say so outright! I am aware of the counter arguments of course, such as the multiverse concept and the endless cycle of regular expansion from, then reduction to, the initial singularity which repeats itself over and over until the current universe which we observe is arrived at. I guess any attempt to eradicate the need for a creator God is desirable?


Point 2: That’s an honest response! I believe that God created life and therefore every living human being is precious to him, and each one unique. Of course with our modern day knowledge of DNA we can confidently state that yes, each person is indeed unique. There never has been a TBG or a Gofer Blue before in the history of the universe nor will there ever be another one in the future. Before I became a Christian I would have given the same response as you – I didn’t know if my life had a purpose in the philosophical sense. Since becoming a Christian I know that the purpose of my life is to reflect the love of Christ/God not just in words but in actions.

Regarding some sort of in-built altruism, I can agree and at the same time disagree with you if that makes sense. Yes, I believe each person has a built-in God-given sense of conscience which can be outwardly portrayed as altruism. However this trait can, and is often, suppressed by pure selfishness and greed and like civilisation in the general sense, is only like a thin veneer which can easily be stripped away.


Point 3: I agree with you in that it seems ridiculous that a God who created umpteen billions of stars and planets should be interested in us humans on an apparently insignificant speck of rock spinning around a bog-standard star in a galaxy which is just one of billions! However as the psalmist wonders: “When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him?”

Like you I cannot prove or disprove there is an afterlife but I believe in Jesus and if he said that there is, then that’s good enough for me. I am well aware of the “Jesus was either mad, bad or deluded” debate but from my examination of his life, teachings and works he was none of these things! Even if it did turn out to be untrue then it would not matter that much to me as “pie in the sky when you die” has never been my motivation to live as Jesus expects me to live. The greatest accolade I would like to have is that after I’m gone, someone would say that they were glad that I had lived.

Thanks for your civilised.response but did you answer my question about everything in Genesis being true?

[stevo]

In this and possibly other threads, I have talked about my belief in a collective consciousness of all living things throughout the Cosmos. And that our bodies are just temporary vehicles for our souls (for want of a better word) and that death is not the end for us. I have also talked about how this belief is backed up by the laws of quantum physics.

It turns out that there is a name for this, which I have just learned. It's called Biocentrism - a phrase coined by a Dr Robert Lanza, who has handily written a book about it, which I have just acquired and started reading. It answers all those questions raised above without there being a need to fill and gaps in our understanding with God.

Atheists take note.

[delmbox]

Point 1: OK, fair enough. Obviously for you the Bible is not an authoritative source, so you would require additional non-Biblical evidence. The usual non-Biblical evidence for a supreme being/intelligence who created the universe and everything in it is found in the Anthropic Principle, which I’m sure you are aware of.

I found this summary of the A.P. on the Internet: Clearly, humanity’s very existence shows that the current structure of the universe and the values taken by the constants of nature permit life to exist. Indeed, it appears that many features of the universe that are necessary for the evolution and persistence of life are the results of unusual coincidences between different values of the constants of nature—quantities such as the mass of the electron, the strength of gravity, or the lifetime of the neutron. The significance, if any, of these coincidences is not understood. What is understood is that, if these quantities were slightly altered, then no form of complexity or life could exist in the universe.

I like the “unusual coincidences” bit. A hint of intelligent design there perhaps (?) but obviously intellectual suicide to say so outright! I am aware of the counter arguments of course, such as the multiverse concept and the endless cycle of regular expansion from, then reduction to, the initial singularity which repeats itself over and over until the current universe which we observe is arrived at. I guess any attempt to eradicate the need for a creator God is desirable?


Point 2: That’s an honest response! I believe that God created life and therefore every living human being is precious to him, and each one unique. Of course with our modern day knowledge of DNA we can confidently state that yes, each person is indeed unique. There never has been a TBG or a Gofer Blue before in the history of the universe nor will there ever be another one in the future. Before I became a Christian I would have given the same response as you – I didn’t know if my life had a purpose in the philosophical sense. Since becoming a Christian I know that the purpose of my life is to reflect the love of Christ/God not just in words but in actions.

Regarding some sort of in-built altruism, I can agree and at the same time disagree with you if that makes sense. Yes, I believe each person has a built-in God-given sense of conscience which can be outwardly portrayed as altruism. However this trait can, and is often, suppressed by pure selfishness and greed and like civilisation in the general sense, is only like a thin veneer which can easily be stripped away.


Point 3: I agree with you in that it seems ridiculous that a God who created umpteen billions of stars and planets should be interested in us humans on an apparently insignificant speck of rock spinning around a bog-standard star in a galaxy which is just one of billions! However as the psalmist wonders: “When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him?”

Like you I cannot prove or disprove there is an afterlife but I believe in Jesus and if he said that there is, then that’s good enough for me. I am well aware of the “Jesus was either mad, bad or deluded” debate but from my examination of his life, teachings and works he was none of these things! Even if it did turn out to be untrue then it would not matter that much to me as “pie in the sky when you die” has never been my motivation to live as Jesus expects me to live. The greatest accolade I would like to have is that after I’m gone, someone would say that they were glad that I had lived.

if there is a heaven and you and truthpaste make it in you'll definitely get a house in a nicer area than him based on the way you talk to people

[Taunton Blue Genie]

if there is a heaven and you and truthpaste make it in you'll definitely get a house in a nicer area than him based on the way you talk to people

Gofer is a gent.

[Gofer Blue]

Thanks for your civilised.response but did you answer my question about everything in Genesis being true?

Not yet but have made a start on it!

[Gofer Blue]

if there is a heaven and you and truthpaste make it in you'll definitely get a house in a nicer area than him based on the way you talk to people

I'm certainly looking forward to getting my heavenly body.

[jon1959]

I'm certainly looking forward to getting my heavenly body.

Does that mean Truthpaste will have Danny DeVito’s body in his afterlife? The ‘Heavenly twins’ from CCMB?

[Gofer Blue]

Not yet but have made a start on it!

It's taken quite a while to respond as my wife is poorly at the moment and I am finding it difficult to concentrate, hence a rather rambling, perhaps incoherent reply in places!

Q1: The book of Genesis is divisible into two parts, the primeval history (chapters 1–11) and the ancestral history (chapters 12–50). The creation story and Adam and Eve account are in chapters 1 to 4. To be absolutely honest I really don’t know if this early part of Genesis is literally true or not. I am pretty sure that it is not meant to be a scientific account of events although the description of the formation of planet earth and the creation of life, animals, plants and lastly humans do seem to follow in a logical progression. Obviously there could not have been any humans around when the earth was formed so anything written about that era would have to be via some later revelation rather than an eye witness account! Clearly this issue is a trap for unwary Christians – if I say I don’t believe it is literally true, then how can I say that the Bible as a whole is a trustworthy source and if I do say it is literally true, then I am open to ridicule from non-believers, not that the latter bothers me. I may be accused of dodging the issue but to me, as a Christian rather than an Old Testament Jew, the creation story along with the discussions we have about dinosaurs and aliens from outer space are irrelevant to my belief and trust in Jesus whose life, works and resurrection are recorded in the New Testament as early as 40 years after his death. The apostle John who lived along side Jesus being one of these, as well as eye witness accounts recorded by Luke.

I believe that there had to be a very first human being aka Adam who became aware of good and evil but it is difficult for us today to imagine a world where the concept of good and evil does not exist and what would put the notion into that human’s brain in the first place. If the God who is capable of creating an entire universe from nothing, then presumably a talking snake would be child’s play! If you can’t believe that, then is it possible that the notion of good and evil came to this human’s mind as he/she observed the snake? Have you ever been in the situation where a thought/idea comes into your head when you are simply doing nothing, just meditating? I have and it’s usually when I am taking in some breathtaking scenery (like when I first saw the Niagara Falls for example) and lost to the world as it were. Would I say that it was the Niagara Falls that spoke to me in that moment – probably not!

I think I have shared this experience before, that is when I was simply driving along on the dual carriageway between Cwmbran and Newport with nothing particular on my mind and suddenly my heart was literally warmed in my chest and a feeling of intense joy/peace came over me. There was no audible voice in that case but I just felt reassured that everything was ok and that I should feel at peace with myself and the world. I never had that experience before or since. I believe this was God at work.

Q.2: I agree that it’s fair to say that most people’s religious belief is that derived from their parents or local culture. That does not mean to say that all religions are true of course or that children grow up so indoctrinated that they don’t at some point question the validity of that faith.

Christianity stands out because it is the only religion that puts its faith in a person rather than a philosophy. As you have pointed out many times, there are apparently around 10,000 distinct religions in the world, but over three-quarters of the global population adheres to only one of these four – Christianity (31%), Islam (24%), Hinduism (15%), and Buddhism (7%). To me the acid test surely has to be whether or not people convert from their current belief/faith (or no faith) to another. I don’t have any data but subjectively I would say more people convert to Christianity from Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism than vice-versa. For Muslims especially, to convert to Christianity is a dangerous move hence I suspect there is very little data available!

Of course, for me, Christianity is the only true faith. Jesus said…”no-one comes to the Father (God) except by me”. Quite an arrogant claim some people would argue – a classic case of take it or leave it I’m afraid! The other religions have no concept of the grace of God but insist on good works (brownie points), belief in karma, reincarnation etc. Christians understand that no amount of good works will win favour with God, just a simple acceptance that Jesus has already paid the price for the sins of mankind as a whole and all we have to do is accept him as our saviour, confess we fall short, and ask him to take charge of our lives. It is then our responsibility to spread the good news of Jesus to all humanity so no-one has the excuse that they never heard it. I believe we have only one life here, so just the one shot at it.

Q3: Yes, I can understand that most modern humans require physical evidence before they will believe something, especially today with the advent of AI, fake news and general scepticism. Today the “truth” can be elusive and will become more and more so in the future. However just because the human race has made huge advances in science, technology, medicine etc can we really say that we have advanced in terms of the basic things in life that people need, such as is described in the American Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Can you all in honesty look at the state of the world today and say how all this greater scientific knowledge has fundamentally changed the hearts of mankind? The issues that Jesus was concerned about 2000 years ago are exactly the same ones today – fear, worry, greed, power, me-first, standing up for the poor and down-trodden, wars and rumours of wars. We have in the main rejected God’s plan for us and hence we reap what we sow.

[Gofer Blue]

if there is a heaven and you and truthpaste make it in you'll definitely get a house in a nicer area than him based on the way you talk to people

TP and I may be different characters with different personalities but as fellow Christians we are equal in God's sight, so I think our standard of accommodation will be the same

[jon1959]

TP and I may be different characters with different personalities but as fellow Christians we are equal in God's sight, so I think our standard of accommodation will be the same

So it will be the (land)Lord to blame if you end up on same standard clouds? Won't you at least get a better harp?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

It's taken quite a while to respond as my wife is poorly at the moment and I am finding it difficult to concentrate, hence a rather rambling, perhaps incoherent reply in places!

Q1: The book of Genesis is divisible into two parts, the primeval history (chapters 1–11) and the ancestral history (chapters 12–50). The creation story and Adam and Eve account are in chapters 1 to 4. To be absolutely honest I really don’t know if this early part of Genesis is literally true or not. I am pretty sure that it is not meant to be a scientific account of events although the description of the formation of planet earth and the creation of life, animals, plants and lastly humans do seem to follow in a logical progression. Obviously there could not have been any humans around when the earth was formed so anything written about that era would have to be via some later revelation rather than an eye witness account! Clearly this issue is a trap for unwary Christians – if I say I don’t believe it is literally true, then how can I say that the Bible as a whole is a trustworthy source and if I do say it is literally true, then I am open to ridicule from non-believers, not that the latter bothers me. I may be accused of dodging the issue but to me, as a Christian rather than an Old Testament Jew, the creation story along with the discussions we have about dinosaurs and aliens from outer space are irrelevant to my belief and trust in Jesus whose life, works and resurrection are recorded in the New Testament as early as 40 years after his death. The apostle John who lived along side Jesus being one of these, as well as eye witness accounts recorded by Luke.

I believe that there had to be a very first human being aka Adam who became aware of good and evil but it is difficult for us today to imagine a world where the concept of good and evil does not exist and what would put the notion into that human’s brain in the first place. If the God who is capable of creating an entire universe from nothing, then presumably a talking snake would be child’s play! If you can’t believe that, then is it possible that the notion of good and evil came to this human’s mind as he/she observed the snake? Have you ever been in the situation where a thought/idea comes into your head when you are simply doing nothing, just meditating? I have and it’s usually when I am taking in some breathtaking scenery (like when I first saw the Niagara Falls for example) and lost to the world as it were. Would I say that it was the Niagara Falls that spoke to me in that moment – probably not!

I think I have shared this experience before, that is when I was simply driving along on the dual carriageway between Cwmbran and Newport with nothing particular on my mind and suddenly my heart was literally warmed in my chest and a feeling of intense joy/peace came over me. There was no audible voice in that case but I just felt reassured that everything was ok and that I should feel at peace with myself and the world. I never had that experience before or since. I believe this was God at work.

Q.2: I agree that it’s fair to say that most people’s religious belief is that derived from their parents or local culture. That does not mean to say that all religions are true of course or that children grow up so indoctrinated that they don’t at some point question the validity of that faith.

Christianity stands out because it is the only religion that puts its faith in a person rather than a philosophy. As you have pointed out many times, there are apparently around 10,000 distinct religions in the world, but over three-quarters of the global population adheres to only one of these four – Christianity (31%), Islam (24%), Hinduism (15%), and Buddhism (7%). To me the acid test surely has to be whether or not people convert from their current belief/faith (or no faith) to another. I don’t have any data but subjectively I would say more people convert to Christianity from Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism than vice-versa. For Muslims especially, to convert to Christianity is a dangerous move hence I suspect there is very little data available!

Of course, for me, Christianity is the only true faith. Jesus said…”no-one comes to the Father (God) except by me”. Quite an arrogant claim some people would argue – a classic case of take it or leave it I’m afraid! The other religions have no concept of the grace of God but insist on good works (brownie points), belief in karma, reincarnation etc. Christians understand that no amount of good works will win favour with God, just a simple acceptance that Jesus has already paid the price for the sins of mankind as a whole and all we have to do is accept him as our saviour, confess we fall short, and ask him to take charge of our lives. It is then our responsibility to spread the good news of Jesus to all humanity so no-one has the excuse that they never heard it. I believe we have only one life here, so just the one shot at it.

Q3: Yes, I can understand that most modern humans require physical evidence before they will believe something, especially today with the advent of AI, fake news and general scepticism. Today the “truth” can be elusive and will become more and more so in the future. However just because the human race has made huge advances in science, technology, medicine etc can we really say that we have advanced in terms of the basic things in life that people need, such as is described in the American Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Can you all in honesty look at the state of the world today and say how all this greater scientific knowledge has fundamentally changed the hearts of mankind? The issues that Jesus was concerned about 2000 years ago are exactly the same ones today – fear, worry, greed, power, me-first, standing up for the poor and down-trodden, wars and rumours of wars. We have in the main rejected God’s plan for us and hence we reap what we sow.

First of all, may I express my smpathies with your wife not being well.

I won't go on at length as your Holy Book contains huge flaws and contradictions, has a no-existent meaningful audit trail and urges some people to murder. You don't know who wrote the chapeters, who changed the collation of books therein and your view of Jesus doesn't even match those of the Jews!
Many of the unsubstantiated stories came from pre-existing religions in the Middle East and it's all very childlike and designed for the consumption of illiterate peasants. Your god/Jesus seems to have done little when Jews were being sent by their millions to the gas chamber and preferred to carry out miracles such as turning water into wine, cured Simon's mother of a fever, opened the eyes of blind men thousands of years ago and in one specific area of the world thousands of years ago. It really is all unsubstantiated and silly nonsense which even your Abrahamist brethren disageee on.

Anyway, leaving all that aside, you are still the religious default in considering your parents religion, and even schism thereof, as being the one true path. That old global chestnut.

I did find your comment "I guess any attempt to eradicate the need for a creator God is desirable?" as pretty disingenuous when I have clearly stated that may people such as me as interested in truth and, unlike religious people, we do not start with a dogma to defend all at costs.

Anyway, I'll let you go as you are clearly deeply embedded in your religion matter no matter how silly I think it is.

[Gofer Blue]

First of all, may I express my smpathies with your wife not being well.

I won't go on at length as your Holy Book contains huge flaws and contradictions, has a no-existent meaningful audit trail and urges some people to murder. You don't know who wrote the chapeters, who changed the collation of books therein and your view of Jesus doesn't even match those of the Jews!
Many of the unsubstantiated stories came from pre-existing religions in the Middle East and it's all very childlike and designed for the consumption of illiterate peasants. Your god/Jesus seems to have done little when Jews were being sent by their millions to the gas chamber and preferred to carry out miracles such as turning water into wine, cured Simon's mother of a fever, opened the eyes of blind men thousands of years ago and in one specific area of the world thousands of years ago. It really is all unsubstantiated and silly nonsense which even your Abrahamist brethren disageee on.

Anyway, leaving all that aside, you are still the religious default in considering your parents religion, and even schism thereof, as being the one true path. That old global chestnut.

I did find your comment "I guess any attempt to eradicate the need for a creator God is desirable?" as pretty disingenuous when I have clearly stated that may people such as me as interested in truth and, unlike religious people, we do not start with a dogma to defend all at costs.

Anyway, I'll let you go as you are clearly deeply embedded in your religion matter no matter how silly I think it is.

Thanks for your reply. I’m not going to try to refute some of your comments (I could but I won’t) as I don’t have the time or the energy at the moment. I have sent you a PM also.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Thanks for your reply. I’m not going to try to refute some of your comments (I could but I won’t) as I don’t have the time or the energy at the moment. I have sent you a PM also.

Thanks, Gofer. I'm wishing you well.

[truthpaste]

[QUOTE=Taunton Blue Genie;5577797]First of all, may I express my smpathies with your wife not being well.

I won't go on at length as your Holy Book contains huge flaws - L1

and contradictions - L2

has a no-existent meaningful audit trail - L3

You don't know who wrote the chapeters - L4

who changed the collation of books therein - L5

and your view of Jesus doesn't even match those of the Jews - L6

Many of the unsubstantiated stories - L7

it's all very childlike and designed for the consumption of illiterate peasants - L8

Anyway, leaving all that aside, you are still the religious default in considering your parents religion *

I did find your comment "I guess any attempt to eradicate the need for a creator God is desirable?" as pretty disingenuous *

No less than EIGHT lies mixed into one of the most *condescending post seen for many years, great credit to Gofer for his patience with you while you continue to ridicule (without anything but childish put downs) the most important thing in his life.

You also said:

when I have clearly stated that may people such as me as interested in truth......

Any 'truth' that doesn't impact your life of course, and least of all not anything to do with
the One who is "The Truth".

[Taunton Blue Genie]

[QUOTE=truthpaste;5578150]

First of all, may I express my smpathies with your wife not being well.

I won't go on at length as your Holy Book contains huge flaws - L1

and contradictions - L2

has a no-existent meaningful audit trail - L3

You don't know who wrote the chapeters - L4

who changed the collation of books therein - L5

and your view of Jesus doesn't even match those of the Jews - L6

Many of the unsubstantiated stories - L7

it's all very childlike and designed for the consumption of illiterate peasants - L8

Anyway, leaving all that aside, you are still the religious default in considering your parents religion *

I did find your comment "I guess any attempt to eradicate the need for a creator God is desirable?" as pretty disingenuous *

No less than EIGHT lies mixed into one of the most *condescending post seen for many years, great credit to Gofer for his patience with you while you continue to ridicule (without anything but childish put downs) the most important thing in his life.

You also said:

when I have clearly stated that may people such as me as interested in truth......

Any 'truth' that doesn't impact your life of course, and least of all not anything to do with
the One who is "The Truth".

Sorry, it was checkmate for you a couple of weeks ago. Your lies were found out.

By the way, Gofer is a hundred times the man you could ever be.

[truthpaste]

[QUOTE=Taunton Blue Genie;5578156]

[I]

Sorry, it was checkmate for you a couple of weeks ago. Your lies were found out.

By the way, Gofer is a hundred times the man you could ever be.

You can keep running for so long TBG while you point out the faults in others,
but none of that helps you one bit.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

[QUOTE=truthpaste;5578160]

You can keep running for so long TBG while you point out the faults in others,
but none of that helps you one bit.

Best post another quote from the Bible if that makes you feel happy and distracts from the patience I showed in awaiting you to back up comments of mine you asserted.

You didn't. You lied. Check mate.
Go and bug someone else with your laughable contributions on here.

[stevo]

I’m really keen to bring this thread back on topic. I’m especially interested to hear from the atheists and agnostics on whether they either believe or are open to the idea that death is not the end for us. I think your default position is no - we die and that’s it. If you don’t fall into that category please shout!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

I’m really keen to bring this thread back on topic. I’m especially interested to hear from the atheists and agnostics on whether they either believe or are open to the idea that death is not the end for us. I think your default position is no - we die and that’s it. If you don’t fall into that category please shout!

Is your question aimed at me? If so, I have already answered that in this thread.

[jon1959]

I’m really keen to bring this thread back on topic. I’m especially interested to hear from the atheists and agnostics on whether they either believe or are open to the idea that death is not the end for us. I think your default position is no - we die and that’s it. If you don’t fall into that category please shout!

I am 100% of the view that when we die, we die. The end of consciousness. The end of everything. And I am happy with that. Our atoms get recycled but our minds close down and stop.

As to your beliefs about aliens visiting earth and shaping some of our history. I am very sceptical of most claims along those lines (already had a passing discission about van Daniken and Hancock) but I do think it is likely that life in some form exists elsewhere in the universe (probably many places and times). Aliens on earth is at least a possibility - if very remote - whereas supernatural beings called angels, devils, saviours and the rest is nothing more than a fantasy generated in closed cultural echo chambers.

[truthpaste]

I’m really keen to bring this thread back on topic. I’m especially interested to hear from the atheists and agnostics on whether they either believe or are open to the idea that death is not the end for us. I think your default position is no - we die and that’s it. If you don’t fall into that category please shout!

I really hope you get a reply from someone 'new' as the usual agnostics are happy to have the possibility of life anywhere in the Universe unless it's life from it's originator. Their natural fear & denial then (as you can see above) takes over.

[jeepster]

I really hope you get a reply from someone 'new' as the usual agnostics are happy to have the possibility of life anywhere in the Universe unless it's life from it's originator. Their natural fear & denial then (as you can see above) takes over.

What makes you think are right and we are wrong?Besides a book of fables old wives stories and a talking donkey? Natural fear of what?

[Dave Blue]

What makes you think are right and we are wrong?Besides a book of fables old wives stories and a talking donkey? Natural fear of what?

And then you get some muppet who comes out with this. Get a life.

[Alan Lung]

And then you get some muppet who comes out with this. Get a life.

What exactly has he said that is wrong and justifies you calling him a muppet?