Could Ramsey's absence be beneficial?

[PontBlue]

I know he did his hamstring attempting a back heel but the real reason he got injured was the amount of running he was doing because his lazy arse teammates weren't putting the requisite effort in. You could see him getting frustrated.

Losing someone of his ability and application is going to be a set back, he's also a very vocal player but I think we've missed Ralls leadership and tenacity more.

Who played in midfield during those wins? Were those wins down to them winning midfield?

[Father Dougal]

Could Aaron Ramsey’s absence actually be a benefit for the rest of the season? I know that won’t be a popular idea with some, but I believe it might be.

Ramsey has started six Championship games this season and also made two lengthy sub appearances. The team’s record with him in it is appalling:

P 8, W 0, D 3, L5, GF 5, GA 16, Pts 3

Ramsey’s absence will give Omer Riza and his coaching staff fewer options in the centre of midfield and, as odd as this might sound, I reckon that may prove a plus-point. Riza seemingly can’t resist tinkering with the starting line-up on a regular basis and there’s no doubt in my mind that’s a significant part of the problem.

Ramsey has shown the occasional touch of class during his eight league appearances, but generally he’s looked well off the pace. He hasn’t had anything like the sort of positive influence everyone hoped he would and his habit of regularly conceding possession has been an accident waiting to happen. I reckon that, on balance, the team will probably be better off without him.

If riza does go in the international break then it's a shame the new manager won't have the option of ramsey.

Ramsey best game of the season by a million miles was for wales in bellamys first game. He was bloody outstanding. His finishing did let him down but he could have scored a hatful the positions he was getting into. His movement and touch was a joy to watch. In fact hard to believe it was this season feels such a long time ago.

However based on his city performances it's hard to disagree but that game with bellamy suggested it's as much to do with the management and coaching (of other players) than it is him. Must be extremely frustrating for him.

As an aside Bellamy always says how often he speaks to rambo. Personally I think a contributing reason why no City players are in the wales squad is because of what rambo will have said to bellamy about them and more the awful coaching they receive at the club. I maybe totally wrong but no way bellamy and rambo haven't discussed the likes of colwill in depth.

[splott parker]

It may be beneficial due to the fact that he’s head & shoulders above the rest of the abysmal lot. Without him at least the team will be on the same ‘football brain’ level. You could place Messi alongside any 10 of our squad and he’d look completely out of touch. I know they were a lot younger, although Ramsey was recovering from a serious injury, but the few games they played together him & Bellamy complemented each other due to their different ability to the others.

It’s horses for courses, Ramsey is Ascot, the others are Ely Racecourse.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Its a pretty reductive way to look at it though isn't it? Most of his games came in that shocking spell under Bulut, if we're discounting players based on our start then we'd struggle to field an 11. More recently he was a pivotal part of getting the equaliser against Bristol City and important in keeping control after we went down to 10 at Plymouth. Without those 2 points we're in the bottom 3

He's a good player, we're in a bad situation in the league and with other injuries/players only just coming back. I don't think losing anyone is particularly beneficial considering the situation we're in

If Luton was included, did we finish in a worse position than we were when he was playing?

Were the games against top teams like Burnley, Leeds, Sunderland?

Also due to injuries he doesn't get a sustained run of games to play at his best, but that might be one reason why we may benefit from him not being availble.

[Trigger]

It may be beneficial due to the fact that he’s head & shoulders above the rest of the abysmal lot. Without him at least the team will be on the same ‘football brain’ level. You could place Messi alongside any 10 of our squad and he’d look completely out of touch. I know they were a lot younger, although Ramsey was recovering from a serious injury, but the few games they played together him & Bellamy complemented each other due to their different ability to the others.

It’s horses for courses, Ramsey is Ascot, the others are Ely Racecourse.

Undoubtedly he used to be and his brain may well still be, he isn't a cut above physically though, not anymore sadly. Time waits for no man.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Of the 8 games, 50% of them have been against teams currently sitting in the top 8. One of those was a narrow loss against Burnley away. The other 50% of games we drew three.
I don't think it's a fair comparison to be fair.
But given how injury prone he is now, I'd rather get a side together that can fight in every game than keep tinkering. I said in a previous post that I hope he retires.

I hadn't read right through, but thought this might be the case

[North Cardiff Blue]

The narrow Burnley defeat was at home - Ramsey played the full 90 minutes in the 5-0 collapse away at Burnley in August and was responsible for surrendering possession for their fourth and fifth goals.

I agree it may not be an entirely fair comparison, but nevertheless I firmly believe Ramsey has contributed little of note regardless of who he's played against this season. I'm hoping his absence will mean less tinkering by Riza to accommodate him, and perhaps a bit more from Colwill if he's moved back to a central midfield position.

Equally, it may make no difference at all. But, like you, I hope Ramsey retires now. The situation has become silly and a bit embarrassing.

What you say makes sense, and although hard to prove, I think you could have something there, especially with less options and complications for Riza in the run in.

[splott parker]

Undoubtedly he used to be and his brain may well still be, he isn't a cut above physically though, not anymore sadly. Time waits for no man.

It doesn’t but the few times he’s played, he’s found space without over exerting himself, received the ball from a usually harassed team mate, but invariably has to hang on to it a touch too long due to the lack of intelligent movement by others. Over the last few games he’s made himself available, not by sprinting into space. He just finds room calmly while the others plod around seemingly sticking like glue to their opponents.

As I stated, his absence may be beneficial due to the ‘wavelength’ differences.

[Trigger]

It doesn’t but the few times he’s played, he’s found space without over exerting himself, received the ball from a usually harassed team mate, but invariably has to hang on to it a touch too long due to the lack of intelligent movement by others. Over the last few games he’s made himself available, not by sprinting into space. He just finds room calmly while the others plod around seemingly sticking like glue to their opponents.

As I stated, his absence may be beneficial due to the ‘wavelength’ differences.

Maybe you're right. I'm just thinking he has been caught in possession quite a few times but that's likely me just noticing it more because it's him and I expect him to be better than our other players technically.
Our movement is terrible, has been for a long time. I've been surprised we don't give away more goals than we have by trying to play out as with our movement it just feels there is very little benefit from it for us.

[The Lone Gunman]

Who played in midfield during those wins?

Based on the staring line-ups in the BBC reports, the central midfielders were as follows:

Millwall (1-0): Ralls, Colwill, Robertson

Plymouth (5-0): Robertson, Colwill, Turnbull

Portsmouth (2-0): Robertson, Colwill, Turnbull

Norwich (2-1): Siopis, Colwill, Turnbull

Watford (2-1): Chambers, Robertson, Siopis

Swansea (3-0): Chambers, Robertson, Ralls

Derby (2-1): Chambers, Robertson, Ralls

Hull (1-0): Chambers, Robinson, Mannsverk

I don't think the BBC reports are entirely accurate in terms of positions. For instance, they reckon that for the Norwich game Riza was fielding a bizarre 4-2-2-2 formation. But the above are my best guesses based on the graphics in the reports.

[The Lone Gunman]

It’s horses for courses, Ramsey is Ascot, the others are Ely Racecourse.

It's a pity he spends most of the season in the stables.

[PontBlue]

Thanks, so Robertson must start along with any two from Chambers, Turnbull, Ralls and Colwill

[splott parker]

It's a pity he spends most of the season in the stables.

While the others should be residing in the knacker’s yard!

[splott parker]

Maybe you're right. I'm just thinking he has been caught in possession quite a few times but that's likely me just noticing it more because it's him and I expect him to be better than our other players technically.
Our movement is terrible, has been for a long time. I've been surprised we don't give away more goals than we have by trying to play out as with our movement it just feels there is very little benefit from it for us.

You’re quite correct about the movement of our lot. Throw ins are a prime example, just as well chuck it to one of theirs, quicken the process.

[The Lone Gunman]

While the others should be residing in the knacker’s yard!

In fairness to Ramsey, he always looks well-groomed.

[TheBirchgrovePub]

Think this is just cherry picking stats to suit an agenda tbh.

He opened up the Bristol City defence for the equaliser in his first league game back after a lay off, was really good against Plymouth in his first league start since his lay off then was nothing special in 90 minutes combined against Burnley and Hull. That automatically puts him above most of our midfielders.

Ramsey hasn't looked off the pace to me at all bar the obvious taking time to get up to speed after a 5 month lay off. He'll be a big miss when you look at the alternatives.

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

While the others should be residing in the knacker’s yard!

Ramsey doesn't jockey for the ball like he used to.

[splott parker]

Ramsey doesn't jockey for the ball like he used to.

Doesn’t look like he’ll be getting the bit between his teeth any time soon, if at all, either.

[The Lone Gunman]

Think this is just cherry picking stats to suit an agenda tbh.

He opened up the Bristol City defence for the equaliser in his first league game back after a lay off, was really good against Plymouth in his first league start since his lay off then was nothing special in 90 minutes combined against Burnley and Hull.

He didn't play against Hull.

Agenda? Yes, that's right, I have an anti-Aaron Ramsey agenda.

For ****'s sake, this board is hard work at times...

[TheBirchgrovePub]

He didn't play against Hull.

Agenda? Yes, that's right, I have an anti-Aaron Ramsey agenda.

For ****'s sake, this board is hard work at times...

Sorry, meant Burnley and Luton combined.

Agenda the wrong word maybe but feels like cherry picking a few stats to suit an opinion.

Not sure how anyone can watch games and feel Ramsey is a problem with the alternatives...

[The Lone Gunman]

Sorry, meant Burnley and Luton combined.

Agenda the wrong word maybe but feels like cherry picking a few stats to suit an opinion.

Not sure how anyone can watch games and feel Ramsey is a problem with the alternatives...

Thing is, Ramsey can't play two games in a week, which has meant Riza has had to chop and change the line-up to accommodate him, and I reckon he's done so more because of who Aaron Ramsey is rather than what he has been bringing to the team, but I appreciate that's an opinion others wouldn't agree with.

Leaving aside the injury issues, I just don't think he's very effective at this level at the age of 34. A player of his age needs to be really fit to still make a mark in this division, and with the best will in the world Ramsey isn't and hasn't.

Anyway, it's just an opinion. We haven't achieved a single victory when Ramsey's played this season (apart from a cup game that was eventually won on penalties), so things are unlikely to get any worse now he's out. Whether they'll get any better is another matter.

[Tuerto]

It may be beneficial due to the fact that he’s head & shoulders above the rest of the abysmal lot. Without him at least the team will be on the same ‘football brain’ level. You could place Messi alongside any 10 of our squad and he’d look completely out of touch. I know they were a lot younger, although Ramsey was recovering from a serious injury, but the few games they played together him & Bellamy complemented each other due to their different ability to the others.

It’s horses for courses, Ramsey is Ascot, the others are Ely Racecourse.

Ramsey is finished, and we can polish it up if we want, but he's done. Of course he has a better football brain then the rest of them, that's a given, everyone knows that, but he has to contribute, not get a free pass because of previous exploits or just because he came through our system. He offers very little now, is on a tidy screw (Good luck to him) but he just isn't up to it anymore. There comes a time for all players.

[Rock_Flock_of_Five]

What's with the increasing use of ellipsis on this board...

[splott parker]

Ramsey is finished, and we can polish it up if we want, but he's done. Of course he has a better football brain then the rest of them, that's a given, everyone knows that, but he has to contribute, not get a free pass because of previous exploits or just because he came through our system. He offers very little now, is on a tidy screw (Good luck to him) but he just isn't up to it anymore. There comes a time for all players.

Yes, he’s done, but my point is that in the games that he’s featured is the lack of ability in the players around him has been to his detriment. The times he’s appeared has really emphasised how poor our squad is. Maybe if he’d have been surrounded by even just 4 or 5 players of decent Championship standard his contribution may have been more fruitful, unfortunately he’s been amongst a pile of shite.

[TheBirchgrovePub]

Thing is, Ramsey can't play two games in a week, which has meant Riza has had to chop and change the line-up to accommodate him, and I reckon he's done so more because of who Aaron Ramsey is rather than what he has been bringing to the team, but I appreciate that's an opinion others wouldn't agree with.

Leaving aside the injury issues, I just don't think he's very effective at this level at the age of 34. A player of his age needs to be really fit to still make a mark in this division, and with the best will in the world Ramsey isn't and hasn't.

Anyway, it's just an opinion. We haven't achieved a single victory when Ramsey's played this season (apart from a cup game that was eventually won on penalties), so things are unlikely to get any worse now he's out. Whether they'll get any better is another matter.

I don't think Riza needs much reason to chop and change a line up tbh. I still think Ramsey half fit is a better option than most of our midfielders but I feel like we've seen the end of his career now anyway which is a shame