Palestine Action

[jon1959]

I would suggest in future that you properly read the post I made and if you want to project something from it, then endorse far less inflammatory accusations than accusing someone of supporting slavery. Even for this football forum, where we routinely get called fascists for not agreeing with people, it was a total overeach.

It also implied that I didn't think genocide should be illegal. I do. The question was whether they are committing genocide and I take a not unreasonable position of devolving that to people who can legally define it. You may disagree, but it's not unreasonable. I also explained that I think a key factor in the horrors is the disproportionate power of the two militaries in question, which is also true.

Thank you for clarifying however.

The crime of genocide is already legally defined.

Most if not all posters on here who have said Israel is committing genocide have referred to the legal definition.

Whether the International Criminal Court finally (in another 2 years or so according to the experts) confirms that view is a different thing. The ICJ has set a very high evidential bar for itself in previous judgements, and has got itself into a real tangle where it will not confirm genocide has been carried out if there are other motives for the genocidal actions - including military action or land grabs!

The ICJ has never yet ruled against any country for genocide - so far it has only determined that the charge of genocide against Israel is 'plausible'. That may change later this year when it rules on Myanmar's genocidal expulsion of the Rohingya, where it may be able to set a more rational precedent and accept genocide against a people can take place alongside other aims or intentions. Even if it doesn't get itself out of a hole of its own making it will at least ensure there is a full record of Israel's objectives and actions in Gaza (if not elsewhere in Palestine).

Either way Israel has totally ignored the interim judgements of the ICJ - backed 100% by the USA.

It will ignore any final judgement when that comes in a few years. None of that will affect the genocide underway in Palestine. It doesn't provide any more defence to the Palestinian people and the delay doesn't give Israel any more cover than it already has from the USA and its other hard core apologists.

[chrisp_1927]

Interested to see the result of the court case. Will the government try to justify the prescription by reference to things Palestine action have done, or will they rely on intelligence over what PA were planning.

I'd imagine that the terrorism charges that were brought by the CPS over the elbit Filton incident may help the governments case, dependent obviously on what decision is reached in Court in these cases. It would show that the group were involved in 'terrorism' pre prescription rather than just being branded as terrorists post prescription. It does certainly appear that the bar for terrorism has been lowered somewhat though.

[jon1959]

The controversy over the ban applied to Palestine Action deepened on Monday, with police warning of mass detentions if a demonstration goes ahead this weekend that could see more than 1,000 people carrying placards and posters expressing support for the group.

The Metropolitan police made clear it would arrest anyone breaking terrorism laws, as Downing Street urged people not to attend any protest.

But in a further challenge to the decision to proscribe Palestine Action, 300 left-leaning Jewish figures including the director Mike Leigh and author Michael Rosen will tell the prime minister in a letter on Tuesday that the ban was “illegitimate and unethical”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...est-goes-ahead

[jon1959]

A member of the House of Lords urged ministers to crack down on Palestine Action at the request of a US defence company that employs him as an adviser.

Richard Dannatt, a former head of the British army, wrote privately to two separate Home Office ministers asking them to address the “threat” posed by the group after its activists targeted a factory in 2022.

The activists caused extensive damage to the factory which is run by Teledyne, a US multinational that sells technology for military, aerospace and other applications. Lord Dannatt has been a paid adviser to the company since 2022.

Dannatt’s involvement after the attack on the factory in Wales led to allegations heard later in court that the peer was “seeking to influence” the criminal investigation into the Palestine Action activists.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tedition_email

[the other bob wilson]

This can’t be right, are we supposed to be impressed by the Met Police bragging about it being the highest number of arrests they’ve made in ten years?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8de6rq37v5o

[delmbox]

I went on a pro Palestine protest in Cardiff yesterday and a middle aged woman was arrested for wearing a tshirt supporting Palestine Action, it's a bizarre scene seeing about 15-20 police officers and 5 police vehicles turn up to arrest a 50 year old woman sitting on the ground

[stevo]

Well, these terrorists are not to be trusted

[JamesWales]

I went on a pro Palestine protest in Cardiff yesterday and a middle aged woman was arrested for wearing a tshirt supporting Palestine Action, it's a bizarre scene seeing about 15-20 police officers and 5 police vehicles turn up to arrest a 50 year old woman sitting on the ground

Indeed, but they are a proscribed group so she chose to wear that t-shirt knowing she would be arrested and the costs and officer time that entailed.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Indeed, but they are a proscribed group so she chose to wear that t-shirt knowing she would be arrested and the costs and officer time that entailed.

Get your daft old hes not racist Rupert Lowe on the case

He will sort everything out

[the other bob wilson]

Indeed, but they are a proscribed group so she chose to wear that t-shirt knowing she would be arrested and the costs and officer time that entailed.

And here he comes, right on cue.

[stevo]

Indeed, but they are a proscribed group so she chose to wear that t-shirt knowing she would be arrested and the costs and officer time that entailed.

It’s called making a point.

[JamesWales]

And here he comes, right on cue.

It's correct. And if it wasn't a cause you personally cared about then you wouldn't care less.

The groups proscribed. They knew they faced arrest. 🤷

[the other bob wilson]

It's correct. And if it wasn't a cause you personally cared about then you wouldn't care less.

The groups proscribed. They knew they faced arrest. ��

And yet all of those people did because they know, as do most of the country I reckon, that, in this case, the law is an ass. I find that impressive, you, on the other hand, could have let Delmbox’s post go and kept out of the conversation, but, instead you have to act the contrarian again and make yourself look a bit of a prat in the process.

[JamesWales]

And yet all of those people did because they know, as do most of the country I reckon, that, in this case, the law is an ass. I find that impressive, you, on the other hand, could have let Delmbox’s post go and kept out of the conversation, but, instead you have to act the contrarian again and make yourself look a bit of a prat in the process.

Quit clutching those pearls Bob. The people were arrested because it's a proscribed group. It's no great surprise is it? Like I said, you wouldn't care less if it wasn't a cause you cared about, but the police have to apply the law equally, and without favour no? Everyone's like oooh mmmy godd...they arrested people. Well, yes, they did. And that's cos they showed support for an illegal group. Not a big surprise is it?!

I doubt most of the public do support damaging British military equipment actually, not sure on your figures there.

I know it's a bigger crime on here to disagree with you than to support a proscribed group, but we are allowed to comment on posts! I could say that you didn't need to reply to mine!

[the other bob wilson]

Quit clutching those pearls Bob. The people were arrested because it's a proscribed group. It's no great surprise is it? Like I said, you wouldn't care less if it wasn't a cause you cared about, but the police have to apply the law equally, and without favour no? Everyone's like oooh mmmy godd...they arrested people. Well, yes, they did. And that's cos they showed support for an illegal group. Not a big surprise is it?!

I doubt most of the public do support damaging British military equipment actually, not sure on your figures there.

I know it's a bigger crime on here to disagree with you than to support a proscribed group, but we are allowed to comment on posts! I could say that you didn't need to reply to mine!

So you reckon that, like you, most of the country backs the arrest of a disabled blind man for wearing a T shirt with a “naughty” message on it? This country is a nastier, less empathetic place than at any time in my life, but it’s not reached that stage yet - for someone who likes to describe themselves as a voice of reason, your views are becoming ever more extreme.

[JamesWales]

So you reckon that, like you, most of the country backs the arrest of a disabled blind man for wearing a T shirt with a “naughty” message on it? This country is a nastier, less empathetic place than at any time in my life, but it’s not reached that stage yet - for someone who likes to describe themselves as a voice of reason, your views are becoming ever more extreme.

Yes but that's the reality on the ground of showing support for a group who have been proscribed. An old lady supporting Palestine Action, a disabled chap supporting National Action or young militant supporting Harakat-Ul-Jihad-Ul-Islami (whoever they are). That's the reality of it. The list of those groups is here. If you show support for them, you risk arrest. Doesn't (and shouldn't) matter your age. That's why they were arrested, it comes as a surprise to no one, least of all those arrested. They knew what they were doing.

None of them should face hefty fines or sentences in my opinion, which is pretty different situation to how many who have posted "naughty messages' have faced, but I do find it arrogant that people think the law should not apply to them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ssible-version

[cyril evans awaydays]

So you reckon that, like you, most of the country backs the arrest of a disabled blind man for wearing a T shirt with a “naughty” message on it? This country is a nastier, less empathetic place than at any time in my life, but it’s not reached that stage yet - for someone who likes to describe themselves as a voice of reason, your views are becoming ever more extreme.

Sorry Bob but I think you misunderstand James. This particular case is all about respect for the rule of law first and foremost. So if hordes of non-threatening sympathisers get arrested because they view the law that proscribed Palestine Action was unjust then so be it. The underlying cause that both Palestine Action and those arrested got their just desserts is secondary.

Likewise when he thought the most important thing to focus on during the Southport riots was not the behaviour of people trying to firebomb, lawless as it was, but the underlying causes that brought drunken and triggered hordes onto the streets you have to respect his views.

Hope that helps getting on his wavelength.

[JamesWales]

Sorry Bob but I think you misunderstand James. This particular case is all about respect for the rule of law first and foremost. So if hordes of non-threatening sympathisers get arrested because they view the law that proscribed Palestine Action was unjust then so be it. The underlying cause that both Palestine Action and those arrested got their just desserts is secondary.

Likewise when he thought the most important thing to focus on during the Southport riots was not the behaviour of people trying to firebomb, lawless as it was, but the underlying causes that brought drunken and triggered hordes onto the streets you have to respect his views.

Hope that helps getting on his wavelength.

Zzzz. And you are normally so forensic!

There are always underlying causes.

Showing support for a proscribed group will get you arrested.

Not too much more complicated than that, is it?

Or do you think the law shouldn't apply to causes that you personally support?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Zzzz. And you are normally so forensic!

There are always underlying causes.

Showing support for a proscribed group will get you arrested.

Not too much more complicated than that, is it?

Or do you think the law shouldn't apply to causes that you personally support?

Think you had a fair sight of goal there James, looks like a scuffed finish!

[JamesWales]

Think you had a fair sight of goal there James, looks like a scuffed finish!

Still crept over the line though due to some shocking goalkeeping!

[the other bob wilson]

Sorry Bob but I think you misunderstand James. This particular case is all about respect for the rule of law first and foremost. So if hordes of non-threatening sympathisers get arrested because they view the law that proscribed Palestine Action was unjust then so be it. The underlying cause that both Palestine Action and those arrested got their just desserts is secondary.

Likewise when he thought the most important thing to focus on during the Southport riots was not the behaviour of people trying to firebomb, lawless as it was, but the underlying causes that brought drunken and triggered hordes onto the streets you have to respect his views.

Hope that helps getting on his wavelength.

You’ve twice said I wouldn’t contribute to a thread on a subject I didn’t care about. Well, I’d have thought I’m like 90 odd per cent of people on here in that respect, but what you’re also admitting there is that you care enough about this subject to contribute to this thread today and what is the contribution you feel you have to make? It’s that disabled, blind people and octogenarians should be arrested, fined and/or jailed for taking part in a peaceful demonstration (the Met stated none of their officers were injured yesterday) - what does that say about you?

No doubt, you’ll come back with your usual “the law is the law” justification, but, if this Government runs true to form, they’ll u turn on this latest stupid and needless decision in a few months time - I suppose the same people you want to see locked up today will be free to demonstrate if that was to happen.

[cyril evans awaydays]

You’ve twice said I wouldn’t contribute to a thread on a subject I didn’t care about. Well, I’d have thought I’m like 90 odd per cent of people on here in that respect, but what you’re also admitting there is that you care enough about this subject to contribute to this thread today and what is the contribution you feel you have to make? It’s that disabled, blind people and octogenarians should be arrested, fined and/or jailed for taking part in a peaceful demonstration (the Met stated none of their officers were injured yesterday) - what does that say about you?

No doubt, you’ll come back with your usual “the law is the law” justification, but, if this Government runs true to form, they’ll u turn on this latest stupid and needless decision in a few months time - I suppose the same people you want to see locked up today will be free to demonstrate if that was to happen.

Might have wasted a shot there Bob! That's the last time I try to help

[JamesWales]

You’ve twice said I wouldn’t contribute to a thread on a subject I didn’t care about. Well, I’d have thought I’m like 90 odd per cent of people on here in that respect, but what you’re also admitting there is that you care enough about this subject to contribute to this thread today and what is the contribution you feel you have to make? It’s that disabled, blind people and octogenarians should be arrested, fined and/or jailed for taking part in a peaceful demonstration (the Met stated none of their officers were injured yesterday) - what does that say about you?

No doubt, you’ll come back with your usual “the law is the law” justification, but, if this Government runs true to form, they’ll u turn on this latest stupid and needless decision in a few months time - I suppose the same people you want to see locked up today will be free to demonstrate if that was to happen.

Yeah Cyril.

[Jordi Culé]

It's good to see the police acting so swiftly in nicking Doris from Tunbridge Wells for the heinous crime of violently carrying a placard about.

These fuuckers deserve life sentences.

Hands up whose with me for throwing bricks at the Castle Hotel in Merthyr because it's rammed with immigrants?

Let's show 'Two Tier Kier' whose the fuuckkng boss!

"Oh Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy Robin..."

[stevo]

Quit clutching those pearls Bob. The people were arrested because it's a proscribed group. It's no great surprise is it? Like I said, you wouldn't care less if it wasn't a cause you cared about, but the police have to apply the law equally, and without favour no? Everyone's like oooh mmmy godd...they arrested people. Well, yes, they did. And that's cos they showed support for an illegal group. Not a big surprise is it?!

I doubt most of the public do support damaging British military equipment actually, not sure on your figures there.

I know it's a bigger crime on here to disagree with you than to support a proscribed group, but we are allowed to comment on posts! I could say that you didn't need to reply to mine!

I think you’re missing the point. Nobody here is at all surprised all these people got arrested. And those people who did get arrested knew what they were doing and what the consequences would be. Like I said in my previous point, they’re making a point at the absurdity of it all. I’m tempted to join them myself. I mean. How people do they shave to arrest before the law makers realise they’ve completely misjudged this.