Unpunished Annoying Foul Play

[splott parker]

They do caution players and give penalties for offences....... You get my point..... Laws of the game need to change in terms of turning over advantage. There are plenty of fouls that take place that don't merit a booking in my view, and then we would have loads of cards, loads of stoppages, the game turns into a farce. Just reverse decisions , turn over the advantage or enhance the advantage, that way the game isn't stop start, the punishment is instant, and teams who persist will get hurt.

So do you want pens given for shirt pulling and/or grappling, sly digs etc in the box or vice versa, attackers fouling defenders being penalised? Or let everything go, despite the laws, because it means the game doesn’t stop……when, we know it does hold the game up as it is, many’s the time the ref halts proceedings and delays corners, free kicks etc to lecture players about their shenanigans. Doesn’t penalise further or brandish a card and it just carries on unpunished. So what happens at the next corner? Rinse & repeat, it needs sorting out, this is what slows the game down.

[splott parker]

most players don't care if they pick up a yellow if it stops the opposition from advancing, it's a small price to pay.

An early yellow gives a defender a tightrope to walk, usually ending up with him being subbed should he avoid a second yellow mid second half. How Lawlor escaped last week, God knows but he had to be hooked.

[Tuerto]

So do you want pens given for shirt pulling and/or grappling, sly digs etc in the box or vice versa, attackers fouling defenders being penalised? Or let everything go, despite the laws, because it means the game doesnÂ’t stopÂ…Â…when, we know it does hold the game up as it is, manyÂ’s the time the ref halts proceedings and delays corners, free kicks etc to lecture players about their shenanigans. DoesnÂ’t penalise further or brandish a card and it just carries on unpunished. So what happens at the next corner? Rinse & repeat, it needs sorting out, this is what slows the game down.

Yes, i do want penalties given for blatant fouls, but the subject of corners is very difficult for officials, that's why they don't touch it, and i don't blame them either. A corner is quite unique, well it is unique, at no other time during a game do we see players set up that way, it's condensed, players are trying to get that edge in terms of position, players are attempting to pin each other, and in my view it's understandable, and the most difficult thing in all of this is that you'll have both players at it, there's rarely an innocent bystander in all of this. The real foul happens on delivery, when a player makes their move, but it happens so often that officials are probably to scared to give penalties, because there could be three or four a game, and for me, that would ruin the game. There are fouls going on all over the pitch during a game that officials let go, and i think that;s the case because it evens out over a game, so many players are at it. I don't want to see the whistle going every couple of minutes and players getting booked for shitty little fouls, i would prefer a referee to possess the ability to offer an advantage to the side who were fouled against, or even sin binning players, which would offer a huge advantage.

[splott parker]

Yes, i do want penalties given for blatant fouls, but the subject of corners is very difficult for officials, that's why they don't touch it, and i don't blame them either. A corner is quite unique, well it is unique, at no other time during a game do we see players set up that way, it's condensed, players are trying to get that edge in terms of position, players are attempting to pin each other, and in my view it's understandable, and the most difficult thing in all of this is that you'll have both players at it, there's rarely an innocent bystander in all of this. The real foul happens on delivery, when a player makes their move, but it happens so often that officials are probably to scared to give penalties, because there could be three or four a game, and for me, that would ruin the game. There are fouls going on all over the pitch during a game that officials let go, and i think that;s the case because it evens out over a game, so many players are at it. I don't want to see the whistle going every couple of minutes and players getting booked for shitty little fouls, i would prefer a referee to possess the ability to offer an advantage to the side who were fouled against, or even sin binning players, which would offer a huge advantage.

I reckon that it’s the shitty little fouls that are so annoying and players are, wrongly, getting away with it. Breaking up play, antagonising both opponents & spectators. If we can see it, the ref definitely can, the only way to curtail it is by awarding a free kick. The perpetrators would soon get the message or their teammates & coaches would be ensuring they do. It’d make for a better, more flowing and less antagonistic game. Stopping skilful players through snide, not blatantly dangerous, tactics can also ruin the spectacle.

[The Lone Gunman]

So, in the case of the first half incident, the defender is pulling Salech’s shirt and Salech’s pulling the defender’s shirt. What should the referee do?

I’m not surprised nobody has attempted to answer this one.

The difficulty officials have these days is that practically every player, whether they be attackers or defenders, tries to cheat in one way or another.

While we do occasionally see some genuinely poor performances from referees, on the whole they have my sympathy because their jobs have become virtually impossible due to the behaviour of the players, their coaches and their supporters. It’s why I believe much of the criticism they get is way over the top.

[splott parker]

I’m not surprised nobody has attempted to answer this one.

The difficulty officials have these days is that practically every player, whether they be attackers or defenders, tries to cheat in one way or another.

While we do occasionally see some genuinely poor performances from referees, on the whole they have my sympathy because their jobs have become virtually impossible due to the behaviour of the players, their coaches and their supporters. It’s why I believe much of the criticism they get is way over the top.

It is hard for refs but they are professional refs now and handling things like this should be part of their job. In this situation, where both players are at it, how about, neither side has a free kick but when the ball next goes dead, both players are yellow carded. Equal punishment for both offenders. Snide, niggly play needs to be erased from the game, if a few sendings off leads to this all well & good I say.

[Tuerto]

I’m not surprised nobody has attempted to answer this one.

The difficulty officials have these days is that practically every player, whether they be attackers or defenders, tries to cheat in one way or another.

While we do occasionally see some genuinely poor performances from referees, on the whole they have my sympathy because their jobs have become virtually impossible due to the behaviour of the players, their coaches and their supporters. It’s why I believe much of the criticism they get is way over the top.

I sort of answered it

[The Lone Gunman]

It is hard for refs but they are professional refs now and handling things like this should be part of their job. In this situation, where both players are at it, how about, neither side has a free kick but when the ball next goes dead, both players are yellow carded. Equal punishment for both offenders. Snide, niggly play needs to be erased from the game, if a few sendings off leads to this all well & good I say.

If these things are to be eradicated it would need a culture change throughout the game involving the players, the coaching staff, the supporters and the authorities.

It won’t happen, though. Players will continue to cheat, coaches and fans will continue to complain about that when it negatively impacts their teams but condone it when it favours them, and the authorities will come up with ever more tedious but futile efforts to combat it.

All the while, match officials will continue to take the blame because it’s easier for everyone that way.

[splott parker]

If these things are to be eradicated it would need a culture change throughout the game involving the players, the coaching staff, the supporters and the authorities.

It won’t happen, though. Players will continue to cheat, coaches and fans will continue to complain about that when it negatively impacts their teams but condone it when it favours them, and the authorities will come up with ever more tedious but futile efforts to combat it.

All the while, match officials will continue to take the blame because it’s easier for everyone that way.

I’d just like to see the laws of the game applied across the board but as you allude to there seems to be a reluctance to do this. This reluctance doesn’t make it ok though, it spoils the game.

[Steve the Tea]

They do caution players and give penalties for offences....... You get my point..... Laws of the game need to change in terms of turning over advantage. There are plenty of fouls that take place that don't merit a booking in my view, and then we would have loads of cards, loads of stoppages, the game turns into a farce. Just reverse decisions , turn over the advantage or enhance the advantage, that way the game isn't stop start, the punishment is instant, and teams who persist will get hurt.

If a foul occurs in the penalty area either a free kick is given to the defending team or a penalty to the attacking team. No new Laws need to be added. Its because the ones we have aren't invoked that we are in the pickle we are.

StT.
<><

[lardy]

If a foul occurs in the penalty area either a free kick is given to the defending team or a penalty to the attacking team. No new Laws need to be added. Its because the ones we have aren't invoked that we are in the pickle we are.

StT.
<><

I think everyone knows that. The discussion is about what constitutes a foul.

[the other bob wilson]

If a foul occurs in the penalty area either a free kick is given to the defending team or a penalty to the attacking team. No new Laws need to be added. Its because the ones we have aren't invoked that we are in the pickle we are.

StT.
<><

I agree, but you know what happens, managers, coaches and players soon cotton on to one aspect of the game being favoured over the other and so the ones any new interpretation will favour will soon be attempting to make it work even more in their favour.

I've always advocated that a penalty should be awarded for any instance of wrestling by defenders when facing a dead ball situation, but also accept that this would mean attackers using every trick in the book to try to earn their team a cheap penalty. There is no easy solution to this, but I recall that after the 1990 World Cup was criticised for being boring and too defensive, the laws were changed for things like passing back to the goalkeeper, while there was a change in the way the offside law was administered - whereas linesman had previously been told to give the defending side the benefit of any doubt when making a decision on an offside, this was changed to the attacker being favoured in any very close offside decision.

Therefore, I'd issue a similar edict for the farcical situations we see now at free kicks, long throws and corners so that the benefit of any doubt when both defenders and attackers are "at it" goes to the attacking side. Hopefully, this may persuade managers and coaches to tell their players to start defending their goal as the laws of the game intended, but, again, this could only lead to an increase in cheating by attacking sides in the knowledge that there would be every chance of them earning a soft penalty.

I'd like to hope that a system whereby referees shown to have made an error by being fooled by an attacking player exploiting the new interpretation would be dealt with sympathetically, while the player concerned could be subject to retrospective yellow or red cards, while repeat offenders could be suspended and the manager/club charged with failing to control their players.

Would this work? Maybe not, but something needs to be done, because weak officiating is creating a farcical situation where players are not being penalised for clear and obvious instances of foul play.

[William Treseder]

I think everyone knows that. The discussion is about what constitutes a foul.

That’s not what the discussion is about. It’s about eradicating shirt pulling all over the pitch, and wrestling in the box.

[Tuerto]

I respect everyone's opinion and this is a good thread, but what i will say is that just enforcing the laws of the game is like saying that the government should put more people in prison for committing crime as it's a deterrent, and if there's a deterrent, people will stop committing crime. They wont and they don't, they just find other ways od doing it.

[The Lone Gunman]

I respect everyone's opinion and this is a good thread, but what i will say is that just enforcing the laws of the game is like saying that the government should put more people in prison for committing crime as it's a deterrent, and if there's a deterrent, people will stop committing crime. They wont and they don't, they just find other ways od doing it.

Indeed.

Another factor is that so much football is televised now. Therefore, fans seem to believe that because they can see a foul of some description on the second or third close-up replay, the referee should have seen it in real time from wherever he or she was on the pitch.

I know I’ve said so before on numerous occasions, but the constant criticism of referees these days just does my nut in. People expect miracles and I think it’s ridiculous. The simple fact is that players cheat on a very regular basis. That’s true for almost all of them, whether it be exaggerating contact, feigning injury, wrestling at set-pieces, pulling shirts, etc. They’re all at it almost all of the time.

[lardy]

That’s not what the discussion is about. It’s about eradicating shirt pulling all over the pitch, and wrestling in the box.

Right; whether shirt pulling all over the pitch and wrestling in the box constitutes a foul or not. Refs think not, fans think so. But we're all good on what a penalty is!

[lardy]

Indeed.

Another factor is that so much football is televised now. Therefore, fans seem to believe that because they can see a foul of some description on the second or third close-up replay, the referee should have seen it in real time from wherever he or she was on the pitch.

I know I’ve said so before on numerous occasions, but the constant criticism of referees these days just does my nut in. People expect miracles and I think it’s ridiculous. The simple fact is that players cheat on a very regular basis. That’s true for almost all of them, whether it be exaggerating contact, feigning injury, wrestling at set-pieces, pulling shirts, etc. They’re all at it almost all of the time.

And that's why we got VAR, so the referee's team could see things from all angles, just as the TV viewers do. What a success that's been!

So many times on MOTD over the years, no matter what the game was like, nearly always the first comment in the studio was "Let's get this sorted first Alan. Was it a penalty/a red card/offside?". The whole game would be boiled down to one referee's decision. Never mind the other 89 minutes that had been spent trying to score.

But players are coached to do this, all players. You can tell that by the way they fall under contact. Tuerto is right, if it's not this then it'll be something else. We shouldn't expect refs to get things right when there are a couple of dozen players whose job and career depends on fooling them.

[fugsyphil]

Bring back the obstruction rule. Always thought football was meant to be played with the legs but nowadays there's wrestling all over the pitch

[BLUETIT]

I noticed in Poland’s last game, that they eliminated pushing and shoving in the box at corners, by all their players standing on the goal area line and then running in when the corner was taken

I thought it was great

[BLUETIT]

Bring back the obstruction rule. Always thought football was meant to be played with the legs but nowadays there's wrestling all over the pitch

Ya, they say “he played well, shielding the ball out of play” !!!

No he/it wasn’t, it was f uck ing obstruction

[splott parker]

Ya, they say “he played well, shielding the ball out of play” !!!

No he/it wasn’t, it was f uck ing obstruction

I’m of the opinion that if a player has no intention of playing the ball while holding a player off he’s committing an offence. Free kick for obstruction every time.

[Bozza64]

get the shirts rugby league players wear they need help putting them on they are that tight, like me with a normal shirt !!!!

[the other bob wilson]

And that's why we got VAR, so the referee's team could see things from all angles, just as the TV viewers do. What a success that's been!

So many times on MOTD over the years, no matter what the game was like, nearly always the first comment in the studio was "Let's get this sorted first Alan. Was it a penalty/a red card/offside?". The whole game would be boiled down to one referee's decision. Never mind the other 89 minutes that had been spent trying to score.

But players are coached to do this, all players. You can tell that by the way they fall under contact. Tuerto is right, if it's not this then it'll be something else. We shouldn't expect refs to get things right when there are a couple of dozen players whose job and career depends on fooling them.

It's truly absurd that at a time when we have something like VAR in place that is supposed to be an aid to officials in any area of the pitch, we also have the most blatant shirt pulling and wrestling going on in penalty areas every time a ball is delivered into it from a dead ball situation. VAR has made the penalty area fouling much worse because players know that you either have to be really stupid or really unlucky to be penalised, particularly if you are a defender.

I was watching some Championship game over the weekend where a cross came into the far post and one of the full backs grabbed the player he was supposed to be marking's shirt almost out of force of habit even though the attacker was not going to reach the ball, which was sailing into the keeper's hands. Ten years or so ago, I'm pretty confident a penalty would have been given and the defender concerned would have had the riot act read to him by his manger for such lazy and shoddy defending - today, defenders don't give a second thought to grabbing the shirt of the nearest player to them when the ball is in the penalty area because modern day officials, lmost always, ignore this blatant fouling.

The blatant fouling that is tolerated these days devalues the game and makes it less of a spectacle, I don't know one supporter who enjoys all of the grappling even when it involves their own team and, if I had the power, I would make its eradication one of my priorities. Then, when managers, players and coaches found their next way of cheating that they they thought they could get away with, I'd make that the next thing to be got rid of from the game.

[Tuerto]

Indeed.

Another factor is that so much football is televised now. Therefore, fans seem to believe that because they can see a foul of some description on the second or third close-up replay, the referee should have seen it in real time from wherever he or she was on the pitch.

I know IÂ’ve said so before on numerous occasions, but the constant criticism of referees these days just does my nut in. People expect miracles and I think itÂ’s ridiculous. The simple fact is that players cheat on a very regular basis. ThatÂ’s true for almost all of them, whether it be exaggerating contact, feigning injury, wrestling at set-pieces, pulling shirts, etc. TheyÂ’re all at it almost all of the time.

Completely agree, Although I'm not one for going in on a referees, I have the utmost sympathy for them, the way they are scrutinized now is obscene in my opinion, they're scrutinized more than people in positions of power who really do need it. I've always been. Of the opinion that you win some, you lose some, and that's one of the reasons I like football. Players, coaches, owners need to take a while lot of responsibility for the way the game is in terms of life level cheating, maybe they should speak out, as well as fans groups, bloggers and YouTubers.........

[William Treseder]

Right; whether shirt pulling all over the pitch and wrestling in the box constitutes a foul or not. Refs think not, fans think so. But we're all good on what a penalty is!

Not wanting to argue with you, but shirt pulling and grappling are fouls. We know, and the referees know. They just seem reluctant to enforce it, in certain circumstances, for what ever reason.