Reply With QuoteWell done 👍Originally Posted by Coyote
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In my opinion youngsters today are generally much more grown up and educated than similar cohorts ever have been in the past. I also think they have a different moral compass, are less deferential to authority for the sake of it and are far more critically attuned to the way of the World.
For youngsters these days a clear ethical code in politics and the economy is paramount; mere pragmatism is insufficient and dubious. Quite rightly in my opinion I believe younger generations are seeking a radical new approach and the traditional political outlook is increasingly becoming unappealing to them.
Well done 👍
Apparently the email and associated website offering Your party membership for Ł55 was set up by Zarah Sultana and has not been agreed with Jeremy Corbyn and others.
Corbyn has told people to cancel their direct debits and ignore the website.
He is threatening Legal action.
She has accused the others of running a boys club
Saw the emails. Absolutely pathetic that the left can't stop its infighting for a moment as pivotal and important to get right as this. Omnishambles.
BBC News - Corbyn and Sultana clash over new party membership
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkn3v1e7g3o
Complete clown show
BBC News - Corbyn and Sultana clash over new party membership
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkn3v1e7g3o
Good grief ��
Zara's having a tantrum again. Hope it doesn't make her voice even more whiny. Absolutely fantastic 🤣🤣
I would hope that somehow Labour get rid of Starmer and make some sort of comeback.and a coalition can be made with the greens and lib dems
Lib dems have a 15 percent polling so they should be first choice
Surely that's a better goal than all this division it's both embarrassing and funny what a bunch of amatuers
On Facebook some of your party supporters are suggesting a zionist plot to split them
Ffsake
Just read both of their statements on twitter. I feel a bit sorry for Corbyn tbh, and that's saying something.
Absolute car crash
I always thought it was about egos and power struggles
Well I suppose the good news is that they might be dead in the water and it gives labour a chance to get starmer to walk the plank and maybe get some sort of decent leader in
Splitting the anti reform vote between labour , corbynavich , greens and lib dems is always a dead end
If this ia a car crash it is the second one in a few months - and exposes more of the (inevitable) tensions in an emerging new party.
It may be a breakdown in relationships that can’t be repaired - I hope not.
From the outside (though a supporter and donor) it looks like Corbyn is dragging his feet again and Sultana is trying to force movement.
There is also a difference around central control (Corbyn) and member led (Sultana), as well as social conservatism in the Independent Group v greater radicalism from Sultana and her ‘faction’.
I am much more impressed by Sultana so far for her clarity and political courage. Corbyn has his strengths, but decisiveness is not one of them - and his constant avoidance of conflict in almost any situation leads to bad compromises.
Hopefully, when/if the party is launched it will not be all about a central personality and organisational clash. It has to be something else than a Corbyn and/or Sultana support group. No egos.
Last night Reform won Trowbridge Cardiff
Labour 600 odd
Lib Dems 600 odd
Plaid 300
Reform sneak in via the back door
Split vote when they should be working together v the most serious challenge of all ....BNP in all but name!
I am amazed this bickering and division is happening
This is a portent
I have no problem with electoral pacts to avoid split votes where Reform might otherwise win the seat.
But that doesn’t mean there has to be an incoherent political race to the bottom. You are constantly calling for parties to combine when they have sod all in common.
The Lib Dems are Yellow Tories in my part of the world. Labour under Starmer are trying to mimic Reform. The ‘real’ Tories are imploding. The Greens have taken a sharp turn to the left.
The new party meets a need - and if they work with the Greens and nationalists should aim not to split the anti Reform vote but offer an alternative that takes votes from them as well as Labour. It is not a zero sum game.
It isn’t all about elections either.
I get the sentiment, but I think if Reform win the next election you are going to find out how far from accurate that actually is.
That feels delusional to me, people don't go into politics to be a vessel transmitting the majority membership view into law, they have opinions and they are fight for them and then they fall out.
Aside from that, it just doesn't work anyway, the average person is not aware of all the moving pieces that a government has to have sight of, they have strong opinions about single issues developed in a vacuum. I am not saying that isn't sometimes used as an excuse ('we can't do X because of Y') but if their platform is based on consensus, your party is just going to end up with a bunch of policies that sound nice but when put together are doomed to fail.
Labour is not Reform. I agree.
But Starmer and his government are using the language of Reform, their symbolism, and even adopting number of their policy positions. It is sad, pathetic and doomed to fail.
Why vote for a pale imitation if you can vote for the real thing?
Why reject the politics of Reform when the Labour Party in government is amplifying them every day!
Starmer’s ’island of strangers” comment was pathetic and his subsequent defence that he was unaware of its implications even more pathetic.
Besides being monumentally disappointed by this Government, it also baffles me as it spends all of its time chasing the votes of people who largely did not vote for them last year and are unlikely ever to again. Labour’s current leader and the people he surrounds himself with are not left wing, they don’t stand for anything except for the acquisition and retention of power at all costs and they’ve spent the last year and a bit proving that they’re absolutely hopeless at the second bit.
Not wanting a clash of egos at the top of a new party is delusional? OK.
But you are right that the new party (if it ever happens) cannot adopt a platform that is just made up of the points of agreement amongst the (for now) leading figures.
There would probably be a common position on tax, public ownership and public services, Gaza, aid, internationalism, opposing austerity and poverty. But there are major differences around social policies and I expect ‘trans rights’ to be the place where that kicks off.
That said there is more chance of ‘a new kind of politics’ as Corbyn promised when he became Labour leader - which ended up as ‘policies not personalities’ and him asking questions from the public at PMQs. This is his chance to make it a reality.
Does no part of you think that Labour may be saying similar things because that's whats needed? Ie, now they are in government they are realizing the reality of the level of immigration etc is wholly unsustainable?
Starmer, since before he became party leader, has cheerleaded the ambitions of neoliberal hyper-capitalism that has fractured communities and cut essential public investment for the interests of the rich, powerful and often unpleasant. Reform are a product of the same system, it's a false illusion of choice between the two, but Reform's economic policy would be a death blow to Britain's public services and the erosion of anything but cold, austere, empty-headed nationalism and avarice.
If you want to live in a Darwinian world, by all means go out to rural India and try to live with the Bengal tigers and saltwater crocodiles. Don't drag the rest of society along with you.
No - they are saying it because they are terrified of Reform and prefer to mimic them than fight them.
Farage has managed to get turkeys voting for Christmas. Although he is a charlatan he has a special gift (similar to his buddy Donald) to lead hapless lemmings to their doom.
They may well win in Wales but I still believe they'll lose the national election in 3 years time. In fact when people see them in power and reality drops like I think it's even more likely they won't gain power in Westminster.
I could never vote for them but it's dawned on me that to give them a chance to rule might be the best way to consign them to history.
How would you fight them on this topic? That immigration of 750,000 a year is good and sustainable? That may play out in the poshest most liberal parts of the country (sadly one and the same now) but it won't work nation wide.
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