Reply With QuoteThis is the exact situation that I fear will happen to me. I have always had a beef about poor signage but even more so now.Originally Posted by headlight
| + Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results |
Terrible and yo were perfectly safe unfortunately you want be the last to pick up pointless fines or awareness course fees.
This is the exact situation that I fear will happen to me. I have always had a beef about poor signage but even more so now.
I watched an interview with a solicitor who is an expert in motoring law and he was 100% confident that if the sign says 30 you'd be able to overturn that instantly if you wanted to take it to court.... but who could be bothered I guess. It's a mess.
Twice in 17 years driving in the US... both within 2 weeks of each other. Cop also did me a favor on the second one as I was driving way too fast on the freeway and making the car swerve to music, he wrote it down to 80+ rather than the actual speed and didn't add on the unsafe driving. Very young and very stupid.
Since living in Switzerland, already 3 or 4 automated ones. Over here people put a grand or two towards tickets every year, the cameras are everywhere and unlike the UK they actually have film in them.
speed awareness course last September for doing 24mph in a 20mph limit.
Country Rd, middle of nowhere, no houses.
Road was sign posted 30mph but apparently I should have known it was now 20mph.
I'm 62, driving since I was 17, first offence
I would have appealed that
I thought they were only prosecuting for 26+. At most, I thought you have a video to watch about the dangers of speeding.
At 58 none
The "tolerance" generally is 10% of the designated limit +1 mph, so you can expect to get "done" for 24 in a 20 limit.
Of course what many drivers overlook is that the reason for a 10% "tolerance" is that the car's speedometer is required to operate to that standard.
Generally 10% plus 2, but it's only guidance.
https://roadlawbarristers.co.uk/spee...%20the%20limit.
https://advanced-driving.co.uk/drivi...ing%20a%20fine.
Speeding: what is the “10% plus 2” rule and what does it mean?
Most motorists, when discussing speeding, will have no doubt heard tales of the “10% plus 2” rule. But what is this rule, and what effect (if any) does it actually have in practice?
What is the ‘rule’?
The ‘rule’ itself is quite straightforward: if the speed limit is (for example) 30mph, the rule states that you won’t get a speeding ticket unless you are going 10% plus 2 mph faster than the limit. In this example, this would mean that you would have to be travelling at 35mph or faster in order to receive a speeding ticket.
However, most people will have heard tales of friends and colleagues who have been given tickets for exceeding the speed limit by much smaller margins – in some cases by only a couple of miles per hour. What happened to the rule in these cases?
The truth is that the “10% plus 2” rule isn’t actually a rule at all: it is merely a guideline. The ‘rule’ originates from speed enforcement guidance issued by the Association of Chief Police Officers[1] which sets out the strategy that police forces should use when enforcing speed limits. At paragraph 9.6 of this document, a table is provided which sets out the recommended outcomes for different levels of speeding:
The guidance recommends prosecuting drivers only where their speed exceeds the thresholds set out in the table. It also sets out whether you are more likely to receive a fixed penalty, a speed awareness course, or a court summons.
A closer analysis of the table will reveal that the “plus 2 mph” relates to device tolerance, to take account of the fact that the speed guns used by the police are not always 100% accurate. However, paragraph 9.7 of the guidance reveals that, at speeds below 66mph, the tolerance level is +/- 2mph, whereas for speeds above 66mph the tolerance level is +/- 3%. This distinction is evident on the 70mph row on the table, where the fixed penalty threshold is 79mph, rather than 78mph as would be the case if the 3% device tolerance figure was not used.
What effect does the guidance have in practice?
The guidelines themselves state very clearly that they “do not and cannot replace a police officer’s discretion”,[2] and express reference is made to circumstances in which an officer decides to depart from the guidelines set out in the table above. Therefore, you should not rely on the table as a set of ‘replacement speed limits’, as you may still be prosecuted.
The main speeding offence is contained within s89 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which clearly states:
“A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence.”
In court, this is the standard to which drivers will be held, and you will notice that there is no reference here to any threshold other than the signposted speed limit. According to the statute, if you are even 1mph over the speed limit, you can legally be convicted for speeding if a police officer considers it appropriate in his discretion. No reference is made to the guidance in the statute whatsoever: it has zero legal status.
What is important, however, is the column of device tolerance figures in the table above. All the police need to do to convict you for speeding is prove beyond reasonable doubt that you have exceeded the speed limit. However, given that the speed guns used by the police have a tolerance of +/- 2mph (or +/- 3% for speeds over 66mph), it is doubtful that they would be able to convince a court that a recorded speed of 31mph (for example) is a truly accurate reading: the driver in this example could actually have been driving at 29mph, which is clearly within the speed limit.
However, drivers should be aware that the Scottish police have decided not to follow the guidance at all, and will prosecute drivers for exceeding the limit by even 1mph, regardless of any device tolerance.[3] There is also talk of a review of the guidance, which was first issued in 2011, to take account of developments in speed enforcement technology.
It is questionable whether the device tolerance figures outlined above apply to the average speed cameras widely used across the motorway network to enforce speed limits in road works, which calculate a driver’s speed based on the time it takes for their vehicle to travel between two points set a measured distance apart. The manufacturers of SPECS average speed cameras suggest that their equipment only has a margin of error of 0.1% due to the fact that they measure speed over a longer distance than conventional fixed speed cameras.[4] This clearly makes it easier for the police to prove that a driver was speeding in the even the most marginal of cases. This may explain why Bedfordshire police made the decision in 2015 to apply a zero tolerance approach to speeding on the motorway.[5]
Conclusion
Whilst it is obviously advisable to stick to the speed limit, if you are caught speeding it is not the end of the world. With the expertise of a Road Law Barrister on your side, you have the help you need to get the best possible outcome in court. Back in March, we represented Mr C in Leeds Magistrates court. He had been caught travelling at 56mph in a 30mph zone, and faced the prospect of at least 56 days disqualification, according to the sentencing guidelines. However, having heard persuasive submissions from his Road Law Barrister, and having received evidence in support of these submissions, the Magistrates decided that 6 penalty points would be an appropriate sentence in this case. Mr C therefore left court with his license and livelihood intact.
If you are caught speeding, or are arrested for any other driving offence, then please do not hesitate to contact us today for your free consultation.
I wonder what the average speed cameras on the M4 Newport are set at, some cars seem to be setting their cruise controls to 55mph and beyond.
Does anyone have any more? They seem to have reduced the localised movable speed traps lately, although I love trundling round at twenty now, so none for me.
I got one last week for doing 43mph in a school zone. Thing is, it was 5:30pm on a Saturday and I was on the West Side highway in Manhattan. If you're not familiar with it, it's a six-lane highway that runs along the Hudson River. I still don't know which school it was or why any of the pupils would need to cross the highway. The only thing on the other side is the river. It was only $50 and no points. But still, WTF?
The wonderfully named Joe DiMaggio Highway?
That's interesting. I've never heard it called that. I had to look it up. I had no idea. It was indeed The Joe DiMaggio Highway.
0
Further to this erlier post I'd like to point out that all the points were accumlated in persuit of rapid covid testing. And since my court case I have garnered no more points, my licence is clean. (FNH)
But the barstweards still owe me Ł100, see post #40
Ha, that's funny.
Where have you gone Joe Di Maggio Highway, our nation turns it's lonely eyes to you.
45 years and nothing.
Been flashed by the cameras on a couple of occasions but nothing ever came through.
I hardly use the car these days so probably going to have that perfect record until the DVLA decide I am too old to hold a licence.
Twice.Once on the M4 95mph.
Second one, heading into Pontypool 50 dropping to 40.Speed awareness course.I.m sure my brain has never properly woking up from that experiance.
Wales 4, England 2, Isle of Man 1, Germany 2, Belgium 1. I was averaging 36,000 miles per year until I retired.
One I’ll not forget, 66mph at 6:06pm on 6th June 2006
One, nil, 50 plus, still have my paper licence, did the course rather than have the points.
Think I've copped 3 over 40 odd years of driving.
Many moons ago I was doing one of several 2,500 mile road trips I did in the States taking in places of interest regarding Native American culture and I was stopped for speeding on what is the enormous Navajo reservation in the north of Arizona. I was heading northwards in a white car and trying to keep to painful speed limit of 50mph in the desert. Several white cars overtook me whilst a Police car was coming towards me from the opposite directions at a distance and down the incline I was ascending.
As I descended on the other side of the road over the rocky outcrop I was flagged down by the Police car with his bluelights flashing. The Native American Police Offer stated that he had observed me speeding but I explained that the speeding white car he was referring to must have been one of the cars that had overtaken me after he had passed by.
He stated that I had three choices: pay the hefty fine on the spot, attend traffic school for a day or to appealtothe judge in the town of Page that I was headed for.
I chose the latter, drove to the courthouse and spoke to a lady on the counter. Part of the way through my explanation, a tall Native American chap appeared behind her and he told me to head down the corridor and go through the door on left. On doing so, I found myself in an empty courtroom. My partner and I were on floor level and suddenly a door on a raised level and next to what seemed a judge's bench, enclosed in a carved wooden surround and with a US flag to either side. It was the very chap who directed us there.
I made an obsequious plea of innocence and at the end of my outporings he said that he would let me know. Thankfully, I never heard
anything more.
I dont know whats happened here.This is not my post
it's from 2024. you posted it over a year ago. this is an old thread that's been resurrected.
Posting Permissions