| + Visit Cardiff FC for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results |
Im not really getting the 'its insensitive' line, if you are a british jew and people taking to the streets to criticise israel gets to you, then that says something more significant about you and your moral compass than it does the protesters.
Is anyone surprised by the invitation to Tommy Robinson to visit Israel (and the Knesset) by the Diaspora Minister in Netanyahu's government?
He has been a high profile cheerleader for years, and keen to pose with Israeli tanks and Israeli flags! He will be at home!
Tommy R and IDF.jpg
Nope.Originally Posted by jon1959
The United Nations have literally said that Israel is committing GENOCIDE in Gaza and people are saying it's insensitive to protest it for now because another awful thing happened, it honestly beggars belief
Cos maybe people see the anti-semitism that runs through the protests like a stick of rock.
You may see it like that but those protesting against genocide don’t.
Now that anti Semitism has been redined as opposition to Israeli apartheid, ethnic cleansing, genocide and a racist state ideology, you may have a point.
However, having taken part in half the 26 or 27 national Palestine demonstrations since November 2023, I have not seen anything that I understand to be anti Semitism in chants, placards or platform speeches.
And every one of those demonstrations ( of between 120,000 and 800,000 people - per Press Association, not the organisers or police) have had big contingents of Jewish people organised in the Jewish Bloc and other organisations, as well as thousands of Jewish activists who march as part of other groups. My regular coach always has a handful of Jewish socialists who help carry the Trades Council banner. Every march has at least one speaker who identifies as Jewish - and on one protest earlier this year there were at least four Jewish speakers.
The allegations of anti Semitism on these marches - from Tory, Reform and some Labour politicians, the majority of the ptint media, and other fans of Israeli genocide are plain shit. The thousands (tens of thousands) of Jewish participants are ignored or denounced as ‘ the wrong kind of Jew’. It is propaganda, a cover and deflection from daily crimes against humanity, and it is where the real anti Semitism is found.
I think given how inflammatory things are at the moment that not protesting just 36 hours after this attack in Manchester wouldn't have been too much to arrange
Obviously there are going to be lots of that north Manchester Jewish congregation who were NOT huge Netanyahu or Israel supporters ....
I think like its possible to be pro palestinian anti zionist and not anti semitic , anti Jewish ......its also possible to support these overwhelmingly peaceful protests but think maybe holding back after Thursdays events is a legitimate and reasonable opinion
So you were able to talk to all 120,000 (minimum) and ask them their motives? Fair play, you get about.
There was a report in the Times this morning where the reporter was faced with animosity for asking a benign question. There are Jews who feel more threatened since the attack, not to mention the anti-Israel sentiment in the protests. But according to you anyone concerned about this is a fan of genocide, a cheerleader and divulging in "plain shit".
What's your opinion on the UN-declared genocide? Before the events at the synagogue this week do you think people are right to be protesting against it?
You can't ridicule Jon's anecdotal evidence if you are going to counter it with less comprehensive anecdotal evidence.
It's obviously awful what's happening out there and people have a right to protest. I just don't think they're as pure as people are making out. There were pro-Palestine demos immediately after October 7th and before Israel had begun to retaliate.
Because people knew exactly what was coming. My first reaction, as well as my family's was "Oh shit, just watch what Israel do now in response." I think our response has been vindicated in the time since 7/10/23.
Not to mention, the evidence is overwhelming that Netanyahu allowed for security failings on October 7th to occur despite being tipped off by intelligence agencies, and rather than target the Hamas insurgent who participated in the attacks, he instead targeted civilians carte blanche in retaliation. Netanyahu fits the profile of a psychopath who used this as a casus belli to seize the territory and wipe out the Palestinian population.
I'm not defending what Hamas did, and undeniably, innocent Israelis died. But it was Netanyahu and his government who allowed it to happen to distract from his domestic crisis and impending ousting from power.
No I haven't spoken to everybody on all of the Palestine marches (several million people) to determine their motives for being there. But I have talked to hundreds of different people, taken part, moved around on most of the marches to see the placards, listen to the chants and hear the platform speeches. Enough to form a confident opinion about who is there and why. Overwhelmingly people are there on the Palestine demonstrations out of disgust at the actions of the Israeli government, and in favour of a ceasefire and political settlement that gives peace and security to Israelis and Palestinians alike.
I have never heard what I consider to be anti Semitic chanting - but certainly chanting against the Israeli government, the IDF and the domestic politicians who are complicit in the genocide. Those who call that anti Semitism (and accuse the thousands of Jewish people who are participants and leaders of those protests as anti Semitic) are certainly talking 'plain shit'.
There will clearly be Jewish people who feel more threatened since the Manchester attack. Of course they will after an unprovoked terror attack on a synagogue. We should all support and defend the Jewish community in these circumstances. But if you or others claim that protests against continuing genocide in Gaza is threatening to Jewish people in the UK you are just stoking fears and flipping truth on its head. Eric Cartman has it right on that. If your identity and sense of security depends on silencing opposition to genocide then you are on the wrong side of the argument and I have no sympathy!
Have you got a dog in this fight? I mean if you happen to be Jewish and Zionist then you will have a particular view on things and it will not be easy to view the argument from both sides.
I didn't say anything about chanting. I'm talking about a general anti-Israel, anti-Zionist agenda that's there - in some people - all the time. I saw some guys holding placards with the face of the Iranian Ayatollah but I'm sure they were all pure of spirit.
It's my opinion you were more pissed off about what the synagogue attack would mean rather than the attack itself, and you couldn't shut up for five minutes while the dust settled.
No.
Ok, that clarifies matters a bit, thanks.
So it is now an anti Israel and anti Zionist agenda - not ‘anti Semitism’ on the protests like through a ‘stick of rock’. At least that is a bit more honest. And it is true that many people on the protests (Jews and non Jews) are certainly anti Zionist and have been campaigning against Israeli apartheid and ethnic cleansing for decades. I have!
Then you return to your starting point - which is quite a journey. My first response to the Manchester attack is sympathy for the victims of the terror attack and their community. My second response is disgust at the way politicians used it immediately to close down protest against the Gaza genocide. Netanyahu was doing that all over the media before I responded to Paul’s OP.
You have a problem with that. I have a problem with your reaction. I think it is dishonest and disrespectful - but I also think we have done this to death and there is no point discussing it further.
I don't do wind-ups. My posts were honest. If you didn't like them that's up to you.
Good Grief!
Sludge and I agree on something.
Particularly the final paragraph.
Now you're big mates go on share your pix of Sara with him.
I think the pro Palestinian protesters should maybe start protesting for Hamas to do their utmost to agree to a peace deal. Don’t you?
Their hate of one person is greater than their wanting a peace deal. (Keeping it simple.)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote