Quote Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman View Post
I'll ignore the ridiculous SS reference.

My simple definitions would be:

Anyone who enters the UK by any method and surrenders to the authorities in a bid to seek protection and/or asylum = a refugee or asylum seeker.

Anyone who enters the UK by any method and attempts to avoid the authorities = an illegal immigrant.

Anyone who stays in the UK and attempts to avoid the authorities after the expiration of a valid visa or a failed asylum application = an illegal immigrant.

Of course, it’s a very complicated subject, but I feel the phrase ‘illegal immigrant’ is used by large swathes of the public and by politicians and the populist media far too often and far too glibly. As far as I’m aware, seeking asylum is not an illegal activity under international law, but the UK currently has no safe or sensible routes to do so.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the asylum system and immigration in general are issues that need addressing in one way or another, and the current situation is very far from satisfactory, but things need to be kept in perspective and that’s not happening. Immigrants of every description have increasingly been demonised and in many respects dehumanised in recent years, while a lot of the so-called facts and figures that have been peddled by the politicians, the populist media and their paymasters are simply fiction.

Approximately 37,000 people have arrived in the UK this year by small boat. To put that figure into some sort of perspective, Celtic had a crowd of 48,000 last night for a Europa League game against Sturm Graz. I was watching a panel discussion last week during which it was revealed that the current asylum system accounts for around 0.4% of the government’s annual expenditure. Therefore, for every £100 we pay in tax, it effectively costs us 40p. Nevertheless, this is the issue that is plastered all over the media day in and day out, it’s the issue Reform and the far right want us to concentrate on, and it’s the issue a significantly large percentage of the country’s population seems to believe is the biggest problem we have to solve.

The irony is that the people these deluded dummies will attempt to vote into power are the liars and frauds who are most ill-equipped to deal with it. In many cases, they are the very same maggots who told us that Brexit would be the solution to all our problems. That went well….
You are right that the figure of people arriving in small boats is 37,000 so far this year. I'm not sure of the relevance of comparing it to Celtic Park last night, but I guess it does help people picture the number.

People can think that's a big number or not but there are a few things to consider, off the top of my head;

1 / all of those people need housing, feeding, protecting, legal and administrative support. People are entitled to think that there are other more pressing needs within the country.

2 / we have literally no idea who many of them are. Theres now almost daily stories of people with criminal pasts simply changing their names, dates of birth etc and claiming that all documents were lost - and no doubt in some cases they were lost accidentally.

3 / people are entitled to think from a compassion perspective, that the people arriving are not the most deserving. They typically arent women or children, they do have the financial and physical means to travel across Europe, they are coming from a safe country, they have been wealthy enough to pay for the crossing etc. So people are entitled to think that these aren't the most deserving cases. Until about a year ago, the number one country of people arriving was Albania for example!

4 / asylum claims are of course different to immigration generally, but that context matters. Net migration in recent years have gone from around 50,000 per year in the 80s and 90s to around 300,000 in the naughties and peaked at 900,000 after COVID. 1.3m arrived in 2023. The windrush generation totalled 500,000 odd in 25 years! The numbers are extraordinary and it's an important part of the backstory.

5 / irrespective of whether it's 37,000 or 370,000, they all need to be housed. it's in the context of us being a country with homeless problems, with huge waiting lists for housing, with a serious housing affordability problem. And again, that context matters, as these numbers matter more when most people feel there isn't enough housing, public services etc anyway. Likewise, aside from the cost we have millions using food banks, so many will understandably be agitated when others receive food for free etc.

I agree with you on the ridiculousness of the SS comment. Hopefully there will be less daft nazi references on here in future!

Also agree how this is a very complex issue and not easy to solve.