Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[blue matt]

Labour have lived on the past for too long, many Labour voters voted for them as " my dad did " or " its what we vote around these parts ", voting day is very easy for them , Arrive, get ballot papers and look for labour, put cross in that box

a political party cannot survive like that for long

Voters actually do a little research these days, if a voter see's a party that they like the look of, they get the vote ( it could actually be the evil empire, the Tories ), the blind sheep like voter ( described above ) is on its way out

[Rjk]

Labour have lived on the past for too long, many Labour voters voted for them as " my dad did " or " its what we vote around these parts ", voting day is very easy for them , Arrive, get ballot papers and look for labour, put cross in that box

a political party cannot survive like that for long

Voters actually do a little research these days, if a voter see's a party that they like the look of, they get the vote ( it could actually be the evil empire, the Tories ), the blind sheep like voter ( described above ) is on its way out

No I don't agree with that.
There are just as many dyed in the wool tory areas as Labour.

And I don't agree on research, especially into policies.
I know several people who expressed very strong anti Corbyn opinions at the time of the last election, but couldn't have named a single one of his policies. And when some of the policies were suggested to them they thought they sounded good - but they still didn't like Corbyn.


One person described him as a "nasty piece of work" without being able to explain why.

[blue matt]

No I don't agree with that.
There are just as many dyed in the wool tory areas as Labour.

And I don't agree on research, especially into policies.
I know several people who expressed very strong anti Corbyn opinions at the time of the last election, but couldn't have named a single one of his policies. And when some of the policies were suggested to them they thought they sounded good - but they still didn't like Corbyn.


One person described him as a "nasty piece of work" without being able to explain why.

Thats your opinion

I stand by mine, " the Labour heartlands " have voters who will only vote Labour " cause its what we do around here " One was even on the news yesterday, a bloke in his 50's

With the Internet, it has never been easier to find a parties policies, my daughter voted for the 1st time yesterday, she ( along with a few of her friends ) actually sat down and looked at what each candidate was saying, as it happens, its Tories or Lib Dems around here.
She remembered a issue we had and the Local MP who went above and beyond to help us, so she voted for him ( good enough reason as any in a local imho )

[surge]

Thats your opinion

I stand by mine, " the Labour heartlands " have voters who will only vote Labour " cause its what we do around here " One was even on the news yesterday, a bloke in his 50's

With the Internet, it has never been easier to find a parties policies, my daughter voted for the 1st time yesterday, she ( along with a few of her friends ) actually sat down and looked at what each candidate was saying, as it happens, its Tories or Lib Dems around here.
She remembered a issue we had and the Local MP who went above and beyond to help us, so she voted for him ( good enough reason as any in a local imho )

You'd have to add that there is evidence that "£350 million a week for the NHS" was a pivotal slogan that caused people to vote one way despite i) Boris never wanting to stand next to the slogan because he knew it was rubbish and ii) it was always rubbish.

Politics isn't the 90's anymore and people aren't blindly loyal to one party but that doesn't necessarily mean their research produces well-informed votes. They just have more information now.

[dml1954]

You'd have to add that there is evidence that "£350 million a week for the NHS" was a pivotal slogan that caused people to vote one way despite i) Boris never wanting to stand next to the slogan because he knew it was rubbish and ii) it was always rubbish.

Politics isn't the 90's anymore and people aren't blindly loyal to one party but that doesn't necessarily mean their research produces well-informed votes. They just have more information now.

Well, that bus slogan is well and truly in the past now, so how do you explain the millions of voters that have deserted Labour for Conservative in the last few years. No doubt you will find some other pathetic excuse to cast doubt upon the sanity of anyone who doesn't think or vote like you.

[blue matt]

You'd have to add that there is evidence that "£350 million a week for the NHS" was a pivotal slogan that caused people to vote one way despite i) Boris never wanting to stand next to the slogan because he knew it was rubbish and ii) it was always rubbish.

Politics isn't the 90's anymore and people aren't blindly loyal to one party but that doesn't necessarily mean their research produces well-informed votes. They just have more information now.

Im not sure many truly thought that the NHS would get £350 Mill extra a week ( I dont know anyone who did anyway ), it did serve a purpose of getting people thinking about what money was going into the EU pot and where else it could be spent, so in that case it was job done

[Rjk]

Im not sure many truly thought that the NHS would get £350 K extra a week ( I dont know anyone who did anyway ), it did serve a purpose of getting people thinking about what money was going into the EU pot and where else it could be spent, so in that case it was job done

million not k
I know people who did, they were furious that this money that we had "wasted" on Europe and we could get it back to spend on the NHS.

They couldn't have said it any more clearly, that's what they were going to do.
Except it was all lies.

[blue matt]

million not k
I know people who did, they were furious that this money that we had "wasted" on Europe and we could get it back to spend on the NHS.

They couldn't have said it any more clearly, that's what they were going to do.
Except it was all lies.

Yes Million, i was replying elsewhere and had K on my mind

I am sure some did get sucked into the Bus Lie, though both campaigns were hardly that truthful

I stand by the comment that it got people think about the money we sent to the EU and where it could be spent instead, so the slogan / bus worked

[the other bob wilson]

Labour have lived on the past for too long, many Labour voters voted for them as " my dad did " or " its what we vote around these parts ", voting day is very easy for them , Arrive, get ballot papers and look for labour, put cross in that box

a political party cannot survive like that for long

Voters actually do a little research these days, if a voter see's a party that they like the look of, they get the vote ( it could actually be the evil empire, the Tories ), the blind sheep like voter ( described above ) is on its way out

And so what does a tory voter like about that party because, certainly on here, none of them ever talk about what makes them vote the way they do?

[blue matt]

And so what does a tory voter like about that party because, certainly on here, none of them ever talk about what makes them vote the way they do?

They have in the past Bob, we have seen them being called Idiots / Right wing racists, The baying Labour Mob are not a bunch to allow other views on here, Just look at the Brexit discussions for proof

[surge]

They have in the past Bob, we have seen them being called Idiots / Right wing racists, The baying Labour Mob are not a bunch to allow other views on here, Just look at the Brexit discussions for proof

I agree with the overall point: Labour can't win casual Tory voters if they reject anyone who has voted Tory and people should be allowed to express themselves and not get abused for that. However...

Tory voters aren't an endangered species - they're literally the majority of the written press, a good chunk of social media press, the majority of voters etc. etc.

Tory policies cause people to need foodbanks. People get emotional because of Tory policies that have attacked minorities and created a wealth divide which has literally damaged people's lives. In comparison, your life has not really been damaged by a comment on here.

A greater level of respect should be shown to each other, but also that needs to come from the powerful to those without power as well.

[the other bob wilson]

They have in the past Bob, we have seen them being called Idiots / Right wing racists, The baying Labour Mob are not a bunch to allow other views on here, Just look at the Brexit discussions for proof

I must have blinked and missed the bit where tory voters explained why they vote like they do and as for a "baying Labour mob", they're like a bunch of pussycats on here compared to some others sections of social media. If you want to talk "baying mobs", have a look every now and then at the comments section of the Daily Mail, Daily Express or Sun or there's always the occasional headline with those three as well.

[chris lee]

And so what does a tory voter like about that party because, certainly on here, none of them ever talk about what makes them vote the way they do?

There are lots of reasons, why one would vote for the way they do (tory) and often fairly uncontroversial.

- Lower taxes
- strong stance against illegal immigration
- Less regulation for the self employed
- more business friendly
- Politics of aspiration
- Competition in education
- Perceived to be more on the 'side' of freedom of speech


I am not saying I agree or support all the above talking points, but I am trying to display a general theme, that surely you can see why a local business man or self-employed builder who can afford to send their kids to a private school would vote conservative, without necessarily being an evil person.

[Feedback]

There are lots of reasons, why one would vote for the way they do (tory) and often fairly uncontroversial.
- Lower taxes

No. since 2010 the Tory government has collected more in taxes as a percentage of GDP than any other before it. It really is a myth that the Tories are the party of low taxes. Don't be fooled by headline rates.

- strong stance against illegal immigration

marvellous, lets ignore the fact immigration is actually good for the UK

- Less regulation for the self employed

perhaps you can have a word with the DWP and HMRC as they haven't read the memo. There is more bureaucracy for the self-employed than ever before.

- more business friendly

possibly. The jury is out

- Politics of aspiration

agreed

- Competition in education

whilst this is a good thing, i can't see why we cannot fund education so everyone has an Eton/Harrow type of education paid for by the state.

- Perceived to be more on the 'side' of freedom of speech

perception doesn't mean fact. This Tory government have clamped down on a lot of our digital freedoms

I am not saying I agree or support all the above talking points, but I am trying to display a general theme, that surely you can see why a local business man or self-employed builder who can afford to send their kids to a private school would vote conservative, without necessarily being an evil person.[/QUOTE]

[chris lee]

No. since 2010 the Tory government has collected more in taxes as a percentage of GDP than any other before it. It really is a myth that the Tories are the party of low taxes. Don't be fooled by headline rates.


marvellous, lets ignore the fact immigration is actually good for the UK

perhaps you can have a word with the DWP and HMRC as they haven't read the memo. There is more bureaucracy for the self-employed than ever before.

possibly. The jury is out


agreed


whilst this is a good thing, i can't see why we cannot fund education so everyone has an Eton/Harrow type of education paid for by the state.


perception doesn't mean fact. This Tory government have clamped down on a lot of our digital freedoms

I am not saying I agree or support all the above talking points, but I am trying to display a general theme, that surely you can see why a local business man or self-employed builder who can afford to send their kids to a private school would vote conservative, without necessarily being an evil person.

[/QUOTE]

I knew when writing that list, each point would be picked apart
to be fair I could have done that too
and could also do it for every parties 'perceived' standing blocks.

The point I was trying to make is not to provide evidence of everything the tory's have done good or bad, it was to provide a more holistic viewpoint, that being a conservative, believing in conservative philosophy, and believing the benefits of small government policy outweigh big government, Are entirely legitimate and respectful viewpoints, and if you are a advocate of that kind of politics then surely voting for a conservative government in the UK is not a totally surprising or evil thing to do.

[Feedback]

I knew when writing that list, each point would be picked apart
to be fair I could have done that too
and could also do it for every parties 'perceived' standing blocks.

The point I was trying to make is not to provide evidence of everything the tory's have done good or bad, it was to provide a more holistic viewpoint, that being a conservative, believing in conservative philosophy, and believing the benefits of small government policy outweigh big government, Are entirely legitimate and respectful viewpoints, and if you are a advocate of that kind of politics then surely voting for a conservative government in the UK is not a totally surprising or evil thing to do.

I agree.

you can have conservative values and vote for the Tories, it does not make you a bad person, you simply believe the best way for the nation to succeed overall is smaller government and more personal responsibility. Those who support Labour believe in a larger government and more collective responsibility. there is no right or wrong way, and both approaches have their merits and drawbacks.