While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

[Doucas]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

The most ridiculous thing that has happened to me today is a few people on CCMB getting upset that the Nazi party was referred to as the National Socialist party, which is their name.

The second most ridiculous thing that has happened to me was reading that Twitter post genuinely comparing the UK to Nazi Germany.

Just a reminder; the Nazi Party hounded down and murdered six million Jews and other people for the crime of being what they are. Jews and others fled FROM Nazi Germany

The UK is the country that people entering boats are trying to come TO.

The difference is stark and obvious and whatever varying opinions we may have in how to solve the issue, I genuinely think it is disrespectful to the victims of Nazi Germany to compare the two and people (including ex footballers) should think a bit more before making such comparisons.

What exactly in the tweet is wrong? Be specific.

In this additional list of Fascist tendencies most can be applied to our current government.

If you disagree what on the list isn't a sign of Fascism? Or if you think the list if correct how aren't the tories doing the things on this list?

https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html

[Tito Fuente]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

I wasnt referring to you👍

You aren't right on the National Socialist thing though. It's very common parlance and is used interchangably with Nazi, which literally is an abbreviation of National Socialist. If writing extensively on the topic, obviously Nazi gets used more as it's the shorter form, but both terms are used to describe the party. There is nothing remotely 'alt right' about it.

Here's Olaf Scholtz using it last year:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/08/ukraine-will-prevail-as-europe-did-in-1945-scholz-says-in-ve-day-speech

Here it is on page one of BBC Bitesize

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z3bp82p/revision/1

This could go on and on, but referring to them as Nazis IS no different to referring to them as National Socialists, for one is an abbreviation of the other.

What isn't right is saying the Nazis are in any way similar to mainstream European socialist parties of the last 100 years or so, because they absolutely aren't. National Socialism and Socialism are very different things but you can't just change historical terms for the fun of it

Context is everything. Hence me saying that I'd been to a museum that's literally called, in English, The Munich Documentation Center for the History of National Socialism.

Whenever I have seen the Nazi's be referred to as National Socialists on social media it's always to present them as socialists - not fascists.

You can disagree with that as much as you'd like but I will go with my own anecdotal evidence of what I've witnessed, thanks :thumbup:

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Context is everything. Hence me saying that I'd been to a museum that's literally called, in English, The Munich Documentation Center for the History of National Socialism.

Whenever I have seen the Nazi's be referred to as National Socialists on social media it's always to present them as socialists - not fascists.

You can disagree with that as much as you'd like but I will go with my own anecdotal evidence of what I've witnessed, thanks :thumbup:

That's cool, we all have anecdotal experiences that inform our opinions, but I assure you in this case it is pretty common across the board. If someone only used the full term I would be inclined to agree, but I have only ever seen it used interchangably and I have a particular interest in all things WW2, particularly it's causes.

Didn't expect to have this little debate today, but it is an interesting angle on how language can matter.

North of Ireland / Northern Ireland etc is a classic and contemporary example in that respect

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

If he comes back then I'm off again.

"Hoorah they cheered fron the depths of the Tinfoil Society"

According to the user profile last log on here at 22.12 last night. Perhaps that particular vile persona is still allowed to look but not touch.

[Tito Fuente]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

That's cool, we all have anecdotal experiences that inform our opinions, but I assure you in this case it is pretty common across the board. If someone only used the full term I would be inclined to agree, but I have only ever seen it used interchangably and I have a particular interest in all things WW2, particularly it's causes.

Didn't expect to have this little debate today, but it is an interesting angle on how language can matter.

North of Ireland / Northern Ireland etc is a classic and contemporary example in that respect

If used in a factual and/or historical sense in the right climate then I wouldn't blink twice.

I've just bumped a quote from Lither from a thread that you were one of the biggest contributors to, to show you how it is often the case that Hitler and the Nazis are portrayed as socialists and I've seen on wider scale how "National Socialists" is used on social media.

If you haven't seen it yourself then you're not in a place to argue to the contrary.

[Tito Fuente]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

According to the user profile last log on here at 22.12 last night. Perhaps that particular vile persona is still allowed to look but not touch.

I thought that he had been banned.

Strange.

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

If used in a factual and/or historical sense in the right climate then I wouldn't blink twice.

I've just bumped a quote from Lither from a thread that you were one of the biggest contributors to, to show you how it is often the case that Hitler and the Nazis are portrayed as socialists and I've seen on wider scale how "National Socialists" is used on social media.

If you haven't seen it yourself then you're not in a place to argue to the contrary.

Unfortunately there are some fascists on social media but just because they use a term doesn't mean it has that meaning.

Some people will see Welsh Nationalists display the Welsh flag, it doesn't mean thats a true reflection of the flags meaning.

Anyway, I don't think there is too much more to add!

[jon1959]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

According to the user profile last log on here at 22.12 last night. Perhaps that particular vile persona is still allowed to look but not touch.

Brings back memories of last summer when Hitler, 'alfresco' and the 'native hipster' were acting as a tag team. The hipster is still posting but seems to have toned it down a bit. All different people of course!

[Tito Fuente]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Unfortunately there are some fascists on social media but just because they use a term doesn't mean it has that meaning.

Some people will see Welsh Nationalists display the Welsh flag, it doesn't mean thats a true reflection of the flags meaning.

Anyway, I don't think there is too much more to add!

If enough people use a term then of course it has meaning.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

I thought that he had been banned.

Strange.

ModerationWorld is a wacky theme park, sometimes!

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Brings back memories of last summer when Hitler, 'alfresco' and the 'native hipster' were acting as a tag team. The hipster is still posting but seems to have toned it down a bit. All different people of course!

Though if you are looking for something as similar........ heeeeere's Ronnieeeee

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php?439705-Is-Labour-Anti-Semitic&p=4987320&viewfull=1#post4987320

Like I said in a post yesterday. There's always a tell

[Tito Fuente]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Though if you are looking for something as similar........ heeeeere's Ronnieeeee

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php?439705-Is-Labour-Anti-Semitic&p=4987320&viewfull=1#post4987320

Like I said in a post yesterday. There's always a tell

Well, either Ronnie Bird is Lither or I now another example for James to discount at face value.

[ninian opinian]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Excellent points made in this tweet about this governments policies.

https://twitter.com/ghost_in_exile/status/1633415750969966593?s=46&t=5XvNdsdmLTsVTx09ZSEfIA

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Excellent points made in this tweet about this governments policies.

https://twitter.com/ghost_in_exile/s...LTsVTx09ZSEfIA

Christ some of you are absolutely obsessed with Hitler. It's weird.

The comparisons are seriously preposterous and it's incredible some of you keep making them. It's a toughening up of asylum laws to deal with the system not working and being in near complete breakdown. That doesn't mean the Nazis are coming to power.

And it's the same people who rightly mock others on here for being conspiracy theorists who pump this stuff out.

[Dorcus]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

No true Socialist party would have the word "National" in its title. It's meaning is antipathetic to Socialist beliefs. Whatever the Nazis called themselves they were not Socialists; they were the worst kind of fascists.