While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

[Feedback]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

The issues people are concerned about are things like:

Cost to taxpayer
Exploitation of the asylum system
Queue jumping and a failure to properly help those most in need.
Facilitating rganised crime
Perceived injustice of paying for accomdation when many here are homeless
Crime or the fear of crime.
Impact on areas they are housed due to closed hotels and lost business etc.
Concerns over the level of growth. From 300 a few hundred five years ago to tens of thousands now. What if that continues?

Are people not allowed to have those concerns? Do they need permission to have them?

The irony is that people who dismiss peoples concerns end up fuelling the feelings and conditions that they profess to object to. If you can't see that something needs to be done then that's up to you, but others can.

In 2018 (or thereabouts) we had 300 people crossing on boats. In 2022 the figure was 40,000.

Given your beloved Brexit was about taking control of our borders, would you say this has worked?

[Feedback]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

I was wondering if it was just me that was confused by the different arguments being made by posters.

I don't think ninian opinion's crusade was helpful though - since he was arguing with himself at one point about something that he was agreeing with.

:hehe:

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

In 2018 (or thereabouts) we had 300 people crossing on boats. In 2022 the figure was 40,000.

Given your beloved Brexit was about taking control of our borders, would you say this has worked?

In respect of abuse of the asylum, no, quite simply it isn't working. I have always been pretty vocal about that. It's a sham.

[Feedback]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

In respect of abuse of the asylum, no, quite simply it isn't working. I have always been pretty vocal about that. It's a sham.

Most ukranians that arrive are women and children because men can't leave the country. Many Syrians that arrive are men as they arrive first to get jobs so they can provide for their families, who travel later.

There is little abuse of the system, just a misunderstanding of why the demographics from each country are different.

But let's assume the system is a sham, after 12 years in power at what point does this become a failure of the incumbent government I.e. the Tories, you venerate so much?

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Most ukranians that arrive are women and children because men can't leave the country. Many Syrians that arrive are men as they arrive first to get jobs so they can provide for their families, who travel later.

There is little abuse of the system, just a misunderstanding of why the demographics from each country are different.

But let's assume the system is a sham, after 12 years in power at what point does this become a failure of the incumbent government I.e. the Tories, you venerate so much?

I understand the demographics HiViz, but asylum policy isn't about sending men over first and families later, it is to rescue those in danger.

I agree with you though, but the top nationality coming by far last year was Albanians which totally is undermines your point, and that fundementally is why it is an issue.

I am more than happy to blame successive governments for it, including the Tories since 2012. Ultimately they are responsible. That said, quite clearly in the last few years they have been trying to fix the issue and it's opposing MPs who have not, so there is responsibility on all sides

[Doucas]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

I understand the demographics HiViz, but asylum policy isn't about sending men over first and families later, it is to rescue those in danger.

I agree with you though, but the top nationality coming by far last year was Albanians which totally is undermines your point, and that fundementally is why it is an issue.

I am more than happy to blame successive governments for it, including the Tories since 2012. Ultimately they are responsible. That said, quite clearly in the last few years they have been trying to fix the issue and it's opposing MPs who have not, so there is responsibility on all sides

Tories have an 80 seat majority, you can't place blame on anyone else.

[jon1959]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

I am more than happy to blame successive governments for it, including the Tories since 2012. Ultimately they are responsible. That said, quite clearly in the last few years they have been trying to fix the issue and it's opposing MPs who have not, so there is responsibility on all sides

I would include the Tories since 2010. They're not getting a free 2 years on their record from me!

As to their 'trying to fix the issue', your loyalty and credulity is truly touching. They are trying to fix the headlines whilst ignoring the underlying causes of asylum seeking, preventing any legal route of entry, stoking antagonism against the states we need to collaborate with to develop an effective strategy against the people smuggling gangs (until maybe the last few months) and using the kind of sick language that prompted the Lineker tweet.

And how are opposition MPs with no governmental power equally responsible for the mess that was created by the party that does have that power? Just own it - don't deflect.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Tories have an 80 seat majority, you can't place blame on anyone else.

They just look and behave like a minority Government, but back in 2019, we were, rightly, being told they’d won a landslide.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

That said, quite clearly in the last few years they have been trying to fix the issue

So it's incompetence then? They have spent the 'last few years' trying to fix it and it is significantly worse than when they started?

Why would the opposition have anything to do with what a majority government can get through parliament?

Read some of this back James because I refuse to believe you are this one eyed.

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

No one denies that the govt of the day has ultimate responsibility, although there is a balance of power of course - they cannot do everything they wish, and rightly so.

The point why people may think they are at least trying to sort compared to other parties is in terms of recognising the problem, coming up with policies, not campaigning against removal of foreign criminals etc. It does create an impression for some that as much as the govt takes the blame, the viable alternative would be weaker still on it.

Of course, if you don't view it as a problem, that's fair enough. It is likely as things stand that we will have a Labour govt in a couple of years or so. Will be very interesting to see what they would do differently.

[Feedback]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

I understand the demographics HiViz, but asylum policy isn't about sending men over first and families later, it is to rescue those in danger.

I agree with you though, but the top nationality coming by far last year was Albanians which totally is undermines your point, and that fundementally is why it is an issue.

I am more than happy to blame successive governments for it, including the Tories since 2012. Ultimately they are responsible. That said, quite clearly in the last few years they have been trying to fix the issue and it's opposing MPs who have not, so there is responsibility on all sides

My point wasnt about the nationalities of those coming across. Its about the hysteria that surrounds it.

40k per annum is nothing for a nation of 67m. More people will be born in London this month. But here we are.

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

My point wasnt about the nationalities of those coming across. Its about the hysteria that surrounds it.

40k per annum is nothing for a nation of 67m. More people will be born in London this month. But here we are.

I think births in the UK are around 600,000 a year, 50,000 a month, so London is probably around 5,000 a month, not 45,000, but I take your point. Yes, 45,000 is a tenth of the total net immigration level for last year (a record) but it's about whether the system is working probably. They think it will rise to 80,000 this year mind, which again is fuelling the need to do something

In that sense nationality matters, because Albania is by far the highest number, despite being a small country, but one in Europe and at peace. There are many reasons why people think the system is broken, but I am sure we all want what is essentially a humanitarian effort to work as best it can and help the most needy, and that isn't Albanian men.

They can always apply to live here formally and the good news is the best qualified are no longer discriminated against because they aren't in the EU.

[Feedback]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

I think births in the UK are around 600,000 a year, 50,000 a month, so London is probably around 5,000 a month, not 45,000, but I take your point. Yes, 45,000 is a tenth of the total net immigration level for last year (a record) but it's about whether the system is working probably. They think it will rise to 80,000 this year mind, which again is fuelling the need to do something

In that sense nationality matters, because Albania is by far the highest number, despite being a small country, but one in Europe and at peace. There are many reasons why people think the system is broken, but I am sure we all want what is essentially a humanitarian effort to work as best it can and help the most needy, and that isn't Albanian men.

They can always apply to live here formally and the good news is the best qualified are no longer discriminated against because they aren't in the EU.

Mendacious nonsense.

I know someone who is a barber - he is from Syria. He is a civil engineer by profession, with many years experience, speaks Arabic, Kurdish, Turkish and English. His wife and children are still in Syria and cannot get residency in the UK. His wife is a doctor.

He wants to go back to Syria but he cannot until Assad regime is removed.

If you think the best qualified can get into the UK you're very much mistaken. We have a man who is very clearly well educated but is cutting hair (because in his words any job is better than no job (and this is no disrespect meant to barbers and hairdressers)), his wife who could immediately contribute to help alleviate the growing NHS problem (created by the incumbent government), but instead we have a completely unfit system that is entirely the fault of the current government.

[Feedback]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

No one denies that the govt of the day has ultimate responsibility, although there is a balance of power of course - they cannot do everything they wish, and rightly so.

of course they can they have a significant majority.

The point why people may think they are at least trying to sort compared to other parties is in terms of recognising the problem, coming up with policies, not campaigning against removal of foreign criminals etc. It does create an impression for some that as much as the govt takes the blame, the viable alternative would be weaker still on it.

no. the viable alternative is not treating everyone as a criminal, assuming innocence and treating them with dignity and compassion.

Of course, if you don't view it as a problem, that's fair enough. It is likely as things stand that we will have a Labour govt in a couple of years or so. Will be very interesting to see what they would do differently.

who knows, but we cannot comment on what Labour may or may not do when the Tories are in charge and are making the decisions that are literally killing people.

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Mendacious nonsense.

I know someone who is a barber - he is from Syria. He is a civil engineer by profession, with many years experience, speaks Arabic, Kurdish, Turkish and English. His wife and children are still in Syria and cannot get residency in the UK. His wife is a doctor.

He wants to go back to Syria but he cannot until Assad regime is removed.

If you think the best qualified can get into the UK you're very much mistaken. We have a man who is very clearly well educated but is cutting hair (because in his words any job is better than no job (and this is no disrespect meant to barbers and hairdressers)), his wife who could immediately contribute to help alleviate the growing NHS problem (created by the incumbent government), but instead we have a completely unfit system that is entirely the fault of the current government.

Clearly we don't know this guys full story, and I wish him all the best, but it is a fact that all citizens of the world are now treated equally and the more qualified you are the easier it is to come to the UK.