While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

[Claude Blue]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Calling them Nazis is just fine, thanks.

Pretending that they had any connection with socialism when they were a far-right, fascist party is a bold move though and should be applauded if only for it's absurdity.

And of course, one of the first groups rounded up and sent to concentration camps were the socialists.

James knows this and it's so unlike him to be disingenuous :hehe:

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

And of course, one of the first groups rounded up and sent to concentration camps were the socialists.

James knows this and it's so unlike him to be disingenuous :hehe:

I feel like you haven't read this thread without posting!

[Doucas]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

A damning comparison between the current government and a certain German party in the 1930s.

https://twitter.com/chriswalsh608/status/1633340711943774211?t=2SAiIGfIAHahYADol7HLZA&s=19

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

A damning comparison between the current government and a certain German party in the 1930s.

https://twitter.com/chriswalsh608/st...ADol7HLZA&s=19

The most ridiculous thing that has happened to me today is a few people on CCMB getting upset that the Nazi party was referred to as the National Socialist party, which is their name.

The second most ridiculous thing that has happened to me was reading that Twitter post genuinely comparing the UK to Nazi Germany.

Just a reminder; the Nazi Party hounded down and murdered six million Jews and other people for the crime of being what they are. Jews and others fled FROM Nazi Germany

The UK is the country that people entering boats are trying to come TO.

The difference is stark and obvious and whatever varying opinions we may have in how to solve the issue, I genuinely think it is disrespectful to the victims of Nazi Germany to compare the two and people (including ex footballers) should think a bit more before making such comparisons.

[Feedback]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

The most ridiculous thing that has happened to me today is a few people on CCMB getting upset that the Nazi party was referred to as the National Socialist party, which is their name.

The second most ridiculous thing that has happened to me was reading that Twitter post genuinely comparing the UK to Nazi Germany.

Just a reminder; the Nazi Party hounded down and murdered six million Jews and other people for the crime of being what they are. Jews and others fled FROM Nazi Germany

The UK is the country that people entering boats are trying to come TO.

The difference is stark and obvious and whatever varying opinions we may have in how to solve the issue, I genuinely think it is disrespectful to the victims of Nazi Germany to compare the two and people (including ex footballers) should think a bit more before making such comparisons.

the fact the comparison is being made tells you what you need to know regarding the perception of this governments policy towards migrants.

Watch "the Swimmers". Its an excellent film.

[Claude Blue]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

The most ridiculous thing that has happened to me today is a few people on CCMB getting upset that the Nazi party was referred to as the National Socialist party, which is their name.

The second most ridiculous thing that has happened to me was reading that Twitter post genuinely comparing the UK to Nazi Germany.

Just a reminder; the Nazi Party hounded down and murdered six million Jews and other people for the crime of being what they are. Jews and others fled FROM Nazi Germany

The UK is the country that people entering boats are trying to come TO.

The difference is stark and obvious and whatever varying opinions we may have in how to solve the issue, I genuinely think it is disrespectful to the victims of Nazi Germany to compare the two and people (including ex footballers) should think a bit more before making such comparisons.

Have you ever thought how the Nazi's got to the Final Solution or do you think they went straight to mass extermination?

Perhaps you need to check on the rhetoric they initially used against Jews and other groups. If you knew anything about that period of history you'd understand that the tactics used then are, to some degree, being used by this Conservative government against migrants/refugees - both legal and illegal. Put simply they are "othered" i.e. demonised, blamed for all the countries ills and dehumanised.

This vile home secretary uses language straight out of the fascist playbook, perhaps not surprisingly copying the Farage and vote leave playbook. She grossly exaggerates the figures and uses terms like invasion, swarm, etc. She sickens me.

Add this to acts of voter suppression and limiting the right of protest I think we should all be concerned about the direction of travel of this government. Whilst I don't think any are actual Nazi's (although there are a few dishonourable exceptions to this) there are clear traits of totalitarianism on display here.

Early days but the warning signs are there.

[79blue]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Good to see Gary Lineker stand up to the right wing nut jobs (which is now the majority of the Tory party). It a pity that the BBC has not stood up for his right to freedom of expression since he is not a news reader. They did not try to censure him when he had a go against Qatar during the world cup. The Tory party and their supporters has used language that includes, invasion, hordes, swarms, swamping and coach roaches against people seeking asylum in this country. He is therefore is correct in calling out the Nazi terminology that has been used.

The right wing have been very voracious in the last 5 years in calling people snowflakes for being easily offended and have been on a crusade against cancel culture. Yet they doing exactly the same against Lineker. Why are they so scared of an ex footballer and sports presenter? Maybe it is because of the truth of what he says.

One of his main accuser is the dead cat tosser Lee Anderson, who says ‘This is just another example of how out of touch these overpaid stars are with the voting public. Instead of lecturing, Mr Lineker should stick to reading out the football scores and flogging crisps’. This is from a man who states on his website ‘we live in a free country, and with free speech comes the right to sometimes offend’.

Their plan would criminalise anyone coming to the country illegally and bar them from returning. But there is no route for them to apply legally. This is very Kafkaesque. The only real routes are for Ukrainians, certain people from Afghanistan (only 1 has been accepted) and the Hong Kong Chinese (up to 400,000 are eligible). This current plan has nothing to do with cutting immigration, it is all about red meat for their supporters. They know that this will not be in place before the next election. It will be held up in the lords and in the courts. They are doing it so that at the next election they can accuse the opposition and ‘lefty lawyers’ (it is either legal or not) of being anti-British, going against the will of the people (another fascist trope) and being happy to surrender the country to immigrants.

I have no issue with controlling immigration but there must be a legal route for people in need to apply to live here. It is ironic that a few of the Tory MP’s and ministers would not be here if these rules were applied to their families in the past.

[ninian opinian]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Have you ever thought how the Nazi's got to the Final Solution or do you think they went straight to mass extermination?

Perhaps you need to check on the rhetoric they initially used against Jews and other groups. If you knew anything about that period of history you'd understand that the tactics used then are, to some degree, being used by this Conservative government against migrants/refugees - both legal and illegal. Put simply they are "othered" i.e. demonised, blamed for all the countries ills and dehumanised.

This vile home secretary uses language straight out of the fascist playbook, perhaps not surprisingly copying the Farage and vote leave playbook. She grossly exaggerates the figures and uses terms like invasion, swarm, etc. She sickens me.

Add this to acts of voter suppression and limiting the right of protest I think we should all be concerned about the direction of travel of this government. Whilst I don't think any are actual Nazi's (although there are a few dishonourable exceptions to this) there are clear traits of totalitarianism on display here.

Early days but the warning signs are there.

Correct Sir, a quick history lesson for the supporters of this government.

The majority of Germans in 1930s weren’t Nazis, but the Govt & it’s propaganda made them fear Jews, travellers, LGBT & other minorities who were blamed for Germany’s perilous economy & all of society’s ills

These people lent their support to everything that followed.

[Claude Blue]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Good to see Gary Lineker stand up to the right wing nut jobs (which is now the majority of the Tory party). It a pity that the BBC has not stood up for his right to freedom of expression since he is not a news reader. They did not try to censure him when he had a go against Qatar during the world cup. The Tory party and their supporters has used language that includes, invasion, hordes, swarms, swamping and coach roaches against people seeking asylum in this country. He is therefore is correct in calling out the Nazi terminology that has been used.

The right wing have been very voracious in the last 5 years in calling people snowflakes for being easily offended and have been on a crusade against cancel culture. Yet they doing exactly the same against Lineker. Why are they so scared of an ex footballer and sports presenter? Maybe it is because of the truth of what he says.

One of his main accuser is the dead cat tosser Lee Anderson, who says ‘This is just another example of how out of touch these overpaid stars are with the voting public. Instead of lecturing, Mr Lineker should stick to reading out the football scores and flogging crisps’. This is from a man who states on his website ‘we live in a free country, and with free speech comes the right to sometimes offend’.

Their plan would criminalise anyone coming to the country illegally and bar them from returning. But there is no route for them to apply legally. This is very Kafkaesque. The only real routes are for Ukrainians, certain people from Afghanistan (only 1 has been accepted) and the Hong Kong Chinese (up to 400,000 are eligible). This current plan has nothing to do with cutting immigration, it is all about red meat for their supporters. They know that this will not be in place before the next election. It will be held up in the lords and in the courts. They are doing it so that at the next election they can accuse the opposition and ‘lefty lawyers’ (it is either legal or not) of being anti-British, going against the will of the people (another fascist trope) and being happy to surrender the country to immigrants.

I have no issue with controlling immigration but there must be a legal route for people in need to apply to live here. It is ironic that a few of the Tory MP’s and ministers would not be here if these rules were applied to their families in the past.

:thumbup:

[Tito Fuente]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

The most ridiculous thing that has happened to me today is a few people on CCMB getting upset that the Nazi party was referred to as the National Socialist party, which is their name.

The second most ridiculous thing that has happened to me was reading that Twitter post genuinely comparing the UK to Nazi Germany.

Just a reminder; the Nazi Party hounded down and murdered six million Jews and other people for the crime of being what they are. Jews and others fled FROM Nazi Germany

The UK is the country that people entering boats are trying to come TO.

The difference is stark and obvious and whatever varying opinions we may have in how to solve the issue, I genuinely think it is disrespectful to the victims of Nazi Germany to compare the two and people (including ex footballers) should think a bit more before making such comparisons.

If I am one of the posters that you were referring to, then I want to clarify that I wasn't "upset".

Factual though it is (and I went to the History of National Socialism in Munich a few years ago so I know that it's not an offense to say it), in my experience, the "National Socialism" line only gets wheeled out on social media when people are wanting to make a point about the "socialism " part of the name.

Lither, the *actual* Nazi sympathiser who was posting on here used it numerous times whilst also declaring that Hitler wasn't a fascist.

I highly doubt that you're made from the same mould as him but breaking out the N.S. party stuff is very much on brand for the alt & far right, James. Don't be like them.

As for comparing the UK with Nazi Germany, there are of course some similarities, but we are nowhere near that state yet in my opinion.

What we can't start doing is saying that we cannot make comparisons.

When I visited that museum in Munich, the most shocking thing that I took away from the experience was just how many similarities the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party had with Donald Trump's America.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

As for comparing the UK with Nazi Germany, there are of course some similarities, but we are nowhere near that state yet in my opinion.

The UK (and most governments around the world) are now run by Technocrats.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Lither, the *actual* Nazi sympathiser who was posting on here used it numerous times whilst also declaring that Hitler wasn't a fascist.

Though supposedly banned I regularly see the user name Lither_1927 logging on to this board. Probably just another strand of someone's multi-personality disorder though.

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Have you ever thought how the Nazi's got to the Final Solution or do you think they went straight to mass extermination?

Perhaps you need to check on the rhetoric they initially used against Jews and other groups. If you knew anything about that period of history you'd understand that the tactics used then are, to some degree, being used by this Conservative government against migrants/refugees - both legal and illegal. Put simply they are "othered" i.e. demonised, blamed for all the countries ills and dehumanised.

This vile home secretary uses language straight out of the fascist playbook, perhaps not surprisingly copying the Farage and vote leave playbook. She grossly exaggerates the figures and uses terms like invasion, swarm, etc. She sickens me.

Add this to acts of voter suppression and limiting the right of protest I think we should all be concerned about the direction of travel of this government. Whilst I don't think any are actual Nazi's (although there are a few dishonourable exceptions to this) there are clear traits of totalitarianism on display here.

Early days but the warning signs are there.

I know full well how it happened thank you. I have read extensively on it and comparisons to contemporary Britain are extremely historically illiterate.

[JamesWales]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

If I am one of the posters that you were referring to, then I want to clarify that I wasn't "upset".

Factual though it is (and I went to the History of National Socialism in Munich a few years ago so I know that it's not an offense to say it), in my experience, the "National Socialism" line only gets wheeled out on social media when people are wanting to make a point about the "socialism " part of the name.

Lither, the *actual* Nazi sympathiser who was posting on here used it numerous times whilst also declaring that Hitler wasn't a fascist.

I highly doubt that you're made from the same mould as him but breaking out the N.S. party stuff is very much on brand for the alt & far right, James. Don't be like them.

As for comparing the UK with Nazi Germany, there are of course some similarities, but we are nowhere near that state yet in my opinion.

What we can't start doing is saying that we cannot make comparisons.

When I visited that museum in Munich, the most shocking thing that I took away from the experience was just how many similarities the rise of Hitler and the Nazi party had with Donald Trump's America.

I wasnt referring to you👍

You aren't right on the National Socialist thing though. It's very common parlance and is used interchangably with Nazi, which literally is an abbreviation of National Socialist. If writing extensively on the topic, obviously Nazi gets used more as it's the shorter form, but both terms are used to describe the party. There is nothing remotely 'alt right' about it.

Here's Olaf Scholtz using it last year:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/08/ukraine-will-prevail-as-europe-did-in-1945-scholz-says-in-ve-day-speech

Here it is on page one of BBC Bitesize

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z3bp82p/revision/1

This could go on and on, but referring to them as Nazis IS no different to referring to them as National Socialists, for one is an abbreviation of the other.

What isn't right is saying the Nazis are in any way similar to mainstream European socialist parties of the last 100 years or so, because they absolutely aren't. National Socialism and Socialism are very different things but you can't just change historical terms for the fun of it

[Tito Fuente]

Re: While our eyes are on dingy crisis Rishi slips bill through the back door

Though supposedly banned I regularly see the user name Lither_1927 logging on to this board. Probably just another strand of someone's multi-personality disorder though.

If he comes back then I'm off again.

"Hoorah they cheered fron the depths of the Tinfoil Society"