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Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

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  • Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

    Starmer will soon make a speech in Kent about "snobbery" in education. The central claim and assumption is that non-vocational education is discriminatory and letting children down, and that academic education is, and should be, for everyone.

    Labour leader will argue against snobbery of ‘vocational’ and ‘academic’ education, saying young people need both


    But is it snobbery?
    I can see both academic and non-academic people giving this short shrift. Some people are interested in academia. Some are more practical / vocational and not so interested in advanced maths, history, philosophy etc. as it simply does nothing for their future career or job. I find it odd that Starmer says that not making all children be academic is "snobbery". This is a good example of upper middle class people, or rich people, showing their sense of "noblesse oblige". They mix and operate in social bubbles, never mixing with the working classes, nor socialising with people who are have vocational work. Disconnected. Just like Nick Clegg. Just like Boris. Just like Rich-y Soon-Out. And so it is for Starmer, the North London millionaire QC that he is.

    Prior form from politicians
    This isn't the first time we have heard such pompous diagnosis of doom for those poor non-academics. It was ever thus in the 1960s and 1970s when there was a groundswell amongst the political elite that grammar schools were snobby and technical colleges were for down-and-outs. As a result we have people going through university, thinking that there are more clever people than they really are. I see it in the City. Amongst the bright sparks, I also see plenty of overrated dirge. On the other side, and unlike Germany, we have a lack of appreciation for technical apprenticeships and engineering. We need to stop attacking the vocational education route. It is horses for courses, and all horses need to choose their own paddock, rather than all being whipped in the same direction.

    Bubbled snobbery elsewhere - social circles
    The real snobbery here is upper middle class bubbled folk pitying the vocationally trained - the car mechanics, plumbers, joiners, production operatives, car manufacturing engineers and the like. They look down on them with a false sense of superiority because they "read Philosophy at Cambridge" and "these poor sods didn't". My grandfather went to Pontypridd boys grammar school because he was intelligent. But he never liked it and left at 14 to work in the coal mines with his friends, and chiefly to support his ill parents. He just wanted a job where he could use his very good arithmetic skills, but never had an interest in studying calculus nor algebra. It simply wasn't of any practical use to him. He ended up in factory as a foreman on Trefforest Industrial estate in the 1960s and 1970s. He loved his job. An honest days wage for an honest days work, and a bit of overtime when needed. Not everyone wants an academic education even if they are clever. Not everyone is fit for it either. And many non-academics do well without it, thank you. And I say that, as an academic myself.

    But these bubbled people, where lawyer socialises with lawyers, and accountants only mix with their work accountants mates, and directors with directors (because they are useful networks) are often unaware that many self employed plumbers and carpenters, car mechanics running their own garages, and engineers working their way up, is that salaries of £45,000-£70,000 are quite achievable. Ladies running their own hairdresser salons or coffee chops can earn £30k a year and enjoy their job mixing with all in the community, enjoying their work, and taking a comfortable wage. This is clear to me, hanging out in my local rugby club, football club and local watering hole. Meanwhile, many academic accountants and teachers barely pass the 30k mark in many parts of the country, take work home and are even working on holidays. The Brucie Bonus is that many of these non-academic folk have no university debt and enjoy their weekends quite freely without having to "log on to catch up", or have "worlidays" (working on holidays).

    Horses for Courses
    If only these bubbled, wealthy, middle class / upper class people suffering from middle class guilt would stop reading the bubbled "mea culpa" stories in The Guardian, The Independent and The Times, stopped trying to be Mother Theresa to all sundry and assessed themselves first. If they actually got involved in the local communities they would see that "reading at Uni" isn't for everyone. But that is where the real snobbery lies - what elite lawyer or director mixes with a local car mechanic and plumber, eh? Oh no, not a "valuable social network contact" there is there? Bubbled inside their own cocoons. Oblivious to life outside it. As ignorant as they come.

    Politicians of all colours should be sorting out the national debt, generating a sound economy, and providing basic services. Not being a Nanny State and telling us what choices to make, and to wipe our own arse with. Humans adults can think for themselves - if they are allowed to think like adults, and not be baby-fied by pompous, preaching politicians. This is Starmer's first mistake. I wonder how the electorate will read this faux pas?

  • #2
    Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

    'This is Starmer's first mistake'?

    Really?

    You haven't been paying attention, have you.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

      Is this Sir Keir's version of the 'Ed' Stone ?
      That some intern thought up - that everybody else laughed at.

      https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...tion-limestone
      edstone.jpg

      Pledge 4 should have a No at the start of the sentence

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

        Originally posted by jon1959 View Post
        'This is Starmer's first mistake'?

        Really?

        You haven't been paying attention, have you.
        Judging by the polls I am keeping a very close eye. You may have a different opinion, but so far the polls keep tugging in the direction of "Keir Starmer, The Pound Shop Obama." Any critical mistakes would have been reflected in the polling. If I were Keir, I wouldn't say too much. I would just sit back and watch interest rates rising sharply, taking us to a recession, as it will not correct sufficiently before the election, and Rich-Y Soon-Out would be whooped without as much Starmer raising a glove.

        The more "big stuff" he says like this, this far out of an election, the more ammunition he gives the bluenoses to hit him with.

        So far, so good. Let's see what the media make of this.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

          Originally posted by pipster View Post
          Is this Sir Keir's version of the 'Ed' Stone ?
          That some intern thought up - that everybody else laughed at.

          https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...tion-limestone
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]5658[/ATTACH]

          Pledge 4 should have a No at the start of the sentence
          Ed Millipede. Dear oh dear. What a geek. He just could never look good on a poster could he? Like his brother, what a grifter-in-chief. His brother David went to "work for charity" in the U.S when he smelt danger. Hell of a charity he is doing - he is creaming a £500k salary for his troubles. Awfully, charitable, bless him. How considerate.

          Like the Clintons, Bidens, Kennedys and Bushes. Grifters off the back of the other people - the lot of them. "Help" to these people means "helping themselves".

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

            Hopeless leader

            And another in a long list that labour have elected

            Blair had the charisma needed for modern politics but he was soon acting like a snake

            I would vote green , independent , Liberal, literally anything to get the Tories out

            That people are still going to be holding their nose whilst voting Labour shows how useless starmer and Labour are

            I hope he gets in , has to retire from some mysterious affliction and Labour form a rainbow coalition with the liberals and hippies and bring in PR to keep the Tories out for good

            He's absolutely hopeless and weak and a dreadful speaker using clever language that is straight out of university halls of residence

            Get shot of him

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

              You could always get a laminated Angie 'scum' Raynor poster to put up on your bedroom wall - or perhaps Lady Nugee (Emilly Thornberry) is more your idea of a good socialist role model.

              Obviously if you like your politics to not involve anti semitism (Human Rights Commission report) you could be a bit stuck

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

                Originally posted by SLUDGE FACTORY View Post
                Hopeless leader

                And another in a long list that labour have elected

                Blair had the charisma needed for modern politics but he was soon acting like a snake

                I would vote green , independent , Liberal, literally anything to get the Tories out

                That people are still going to be holding their nose whilst voting Labour shows how useless starmer and Labour are

                I hope he gets in , has to retire from some mysterious affliction and Labour form a rainbow coalition with the liberals and hippies and bring in PR to keep the Tories out for good

                He's absolutely hopeless and weak and a dreadful speaker using clever language that is straight out of university halls of residence

                Get shot of him
                Sure. We know your views. But as a chap who has been around the block for a few decades, what is your take on this education angle from Starmer? Do you agree with it, or not?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

                  Originally posted by Keyser Soze View Post
                  Sure. We know your views. But as a chap who has been around the block for a few decades, what is your take on this education angle from Starmer? Do you agree with it, or not?
                  He's an idiot

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

                    Originally posted by pipster View Post
                    You could always get a laminated Angie 'scum' Raynor poster to put up on your bedroom wall - or perhaps Lady Nugee (Emilly Thornberry) is more your idea of a good socialist role model.

                    Obviously if you like your politics to not involve anti semitism (Human Rights Commission report) you could be a bit stuck
                    I agree with Raynor but she made the mistake of saying it in political office

                    I am not a socialist

                    However it's laughable that the tory party faithful who get lots of support from thick xenophobics think they can lecture others on anti semitism

                    I mean take a look at the history of the daily mail , the tory party's biggest friend

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

                      Originally posted by Keyser Soze View Post
                      Sure. We know your views. But as a chap who has been around the block for a few decades, what is your take on this education angle from Starmer? Do you agree with it, or not?
                      Listening to LBC about 30 mins ago - they analysed what Sir Keir said today. Basically a direct take from Michael Gove (who probably had the idea from someone else anyway)

                      Re the bigoted snobbery of education and having to have a degree for any job that's deemed worthy. He must have forgotten that Blair introduced student tuition fees in 1998 for all graduates and post grads.

                      I think I preferred old Labour under Corbyn / Abbott / Richard Burgeon et al. But I would definitely listen in for Suzy Eddie Izzard is 'they' got elected

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

                        "I am not a socialist" Sludge - WTF what are you then - unless of course the hippy crack has been delivered to your local spar...maybe that explains it.

                        ps - never read the Daily Mail or the Guardian - they are as bad as each other in terms of their levels of 'non' bias

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

                          Originally posted by pipster View Post
                          Is this Sir Keir's version of the 'Ed' Stone ?
                          That some intern thought up - that everybody else laughed at.

                          https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...tion-limestone
                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]5658[/ATTACH]

                          Pledge 4 should have a No at the start of the sentence
                          Never read The Guardian? How did you find this, osmosis?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

                            Originally posted by cyril evans awaydays View Post
                            Never read The Guardian? How did you find this, osmosis?
                            Image search on google

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Starmer's education speech - a critical error & snobbery

                              Originally posted by pipster View Post
                              "I am not a socialist" Sludge - WTF what are you then - unless of course the hippy crack has been delivered to your local spar...maybe that explains it.

                              ps - never read the Daily Mail or the Guardian - they are as bad as each other in terms of their levels of 'non' bias
                              You are about as dyed in blue tory as they come

                              You can ponce about on the fringes acting like you are discerning but you don't fool me

                              The sense of entitlement to rule is appalling and its only because the opposition is divided that this occurs

                              If starmer does win the election I hope he forces through proportional representation so we can stiff you lot for good

                              Comment

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