Welsh speed limits - wtf!

[jon1959]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Well may be I've been lucky because I've been well looked after by the NHS in the main. Agree some aspects aren't so good but was with my best mate in Cardiff yesterday who is getting palliative care for cancer which has now spread throughout his spine and into his skull and the poor chap has not had the response he ought and in a lot of pain. Horrible to see someone in this condition suffering.

Sorry for your loss, RIP.

Sorry to hear about your mate - and thanks for your comment.

My experience of the NHS in Wales has been generally good - especially where there has been a clear diagnosis and care plan in hospital or home - although not for preventative or community services where it is as bad as England. Once in the system it seems to work well both sides of the border. I do think there has been more effort in Wales to join up health and care services - the hospital and local council response and information is better and more co-ordinated than I have seen in the Manchester and Birmingham areas where my Dad and my Mam were before they died.

[jon1959]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Sorry to hear about your aunty Jon. I hope her/your wider family are okay.

I agree on the NHS. Despite different govts for the last 13 years, there is no notable difference. Different stats point to different things and if one is better than another in some areas then it is usually only marginally so.

The fact that there is so different between the NHS irrespective of it being Labour or Tory run should teach us something about the issues it faces and how-to solve them (ie, it isn't political)

Thanks. We are OK and glad she didn't linger in a hospital ward for any longer. She wanted an end.

As I said above, I do think in Wales there has been more of an attempt to join up health and social care services - although my experience is just three areas in England (Sheffield, Manchester/Cheshire and Worcestershire) and one in Wales (Cardiff/Vale). The WAG and Welsh NHS regularly get attacked for diverting NHS funding - but that is mainly into social care, and they seem to me to have done a better job of it than the Westminster government and English NHS. Wales also has to deal with more concentrated levels of poverty and deprivation that is the norm in England.

That said, politicians are not managers of public services, and although they can set strategy and budgets, they need capable people to manage and implement plans. I have generally ben impressed by the people who run the services - from cleaners and porters, through nurses and doctors, to administrators - in both England and Wales. Under-resourced, over-worked and still not appreciated.

[jon1959]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

The motorway around Birmingham is a nightmare. But it is around an enormous city and the pinchpoint for routes between north and south Britain.
The same can't be said of the M4 in South Wales, which is almost entirely focused on the Brynglas Tunnels and for which under the former first minister, was proposed to be massively helped with a new M4. Drakefords scrapped that.

There is a fashion amongst many in Wales to blame Westminster but this one is on us. Only a fool would open a UK wide distribution business this side of the tunnel compared to Avonmouth etc.

Looking more your way, I have always been amazed how bad the links are between Sheffield and Manchester. The peak district is in the way of course, but still, there can surely be no worse a connection between two so major a cities as that example?!

The Sheffield to Manchester transport link is the worst in Western Europe between two such big cities. So many promises from London over the years and so little done - in fact nothing. We have 3 cross Pennine routes (A roads), one single track rail connection through Stockport, and the option of driving up to Leeds/Bradford to cross via the M62 - adding 35 miles to the journey!

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Newport is Chaos if there is an accident on the M4 or a concert at the Principality Stadium.

Chepstow Rd becomes chocka block all the way from the Coldra, along the SDR and everything is clogged on the Magor Road that goes past Llanwern and through the roads around the Leeway industrial Estate.

Corporation Road, Caerleon Road and most of the roads on the East Side of Newport come to a complete standstill.

I’ve no idea if the speed limits will hinder things but I can’t see them helping.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Sorry to hear about your aunty Jon. I hope her/your wider family are okay.

I agree on the NHS. Despite different govts for the last 13 years, there is no notable difference. Different stats point to different things and if one is better than another in some areas then it is usually only marginally so.

The fact that there is so different between the NHS irrespective of it being Labour or Tory run should teach us something about the issues it faces and how-to solve them (ie, it isn't political)

If that's the case you need to be spending less time having a go at Welsh Labour's running of the NHS

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Newport is Chaos if there is an accident on the M4 or a concert at the Principality Stadium.

Chepstow Rd becomes chocka block all the way from the Coldra, along the SDR and everything is clogged on the Magor Road that goes past Llanwern and through the roads around the Leeway industrial Estate.

Corporation Road, Caerleon Road and most of the roads on the East Side of Newport come to a complete standstill.

I’ve no idea if the speed limits will hinder things but I can’t see them helping.

There is talk of 6 new train stations in Newport?

How much traffic is that going to take off the roads ? Not that much

Bike lanes , extra bus routes ?

You would know more than me the HGV loads heading towards Newport

But quite a lot of it doesn't end up in Newport or Cardiff ....its headed for the rest of the country

Apart from exploded the tunnels and bulldozing them the only alternative if we are going to move forward is a road to take pressure off those tunnels and the subsequent pressure on Newport, Cardiff etc

If the gwent levels were not such an important ecological area then I think it would happen

Marshfield is a lovely place with a lovely little canal for fishing but one day it will be flattened .....

Unless we stop breathing

[pipster]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

There is talk of 6 new train stations in Newport?

How much traffic is that going to take off the roads ? Not that much

Bike lanes , extra bus routes ?

You would know more than me the HGV loads heading towards Newport

But quite a lot of it doesn't end up in Newport or Cardiff ....its headed for the rest of the country

Apart from exploded the tunnels and bulldozing them the only alternative if we are going to move forward is a road to take pressure off those tunnels and the subsequent pressure on Newport, Cardiff etc

If the gwent levels were not such an important ecological area then I think it would happen

Marshfield is a lovely place with a lovely little canal for fishing but one day it will be flattened .....

Unless we stop breathing

Keep up at the back - Drakeford and his Welsh Labour pals in the Senedd have agreed official policy of not building any more roads in Wales. So, as a Labour till I die sort of person you should be happy with that ?
Unless of course you think this is all Thatchers fault..... which is the usual comeback

[Heathblue]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!



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[Rjk]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

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savings to the NHS will be a lot more than £33 million you'd have thought

[TWGL1]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

I got sent this today,

People have been questioning what driving at 20 does to a car.

So I thought I'd go to some private ground and find out. (I'll try and keep this as short as possible).

{Image} Car driving at:

���������� ���� ������ - the car is asking you to shift to second because the revs are too low at 1200rpm.

�es��������� ���� ������ - (strangely) the car is asking for 3rd, because the revs are high enough to change up to third at 1800 rpm to maximise efficiency.

���������� ���� ������ - car is perfectly fine.

This was done in a VW Golf with a 2.0tdi Bluemotion(edit) engine, a fairly normal car. And one that should have enough torque to pull a car at lower revs.

But it's not happy. This was done on the flat. If the road starts to incline, you're going to need to select 2nd. An auto box will be working overtime.

... and there goes any reasoning by Welsh Labour that 20 is better for the environment.

I can't say what this will do for engines and gear boxes - there will be a lot more engine lugging (strain). If you have a diesel, you really need to change if you only drive in areas that are 20, it will kill the DPF.

This style of driving is going to mean a lot more shifting, more drifting above the speed limit and an added distraction that will require extra concentration. You'll probably also see a lot of stalls.

Further, everyone will be bored from driving so slow and will pick up a mobile phone. So it's not safer.

Their argument "being hit at 20 is safer than being hit at 30" is correct. But it doesn't factor real-world logic. If drivers are distracted there is a huge increase in dangers, especially reaction time.

���� ���� ���������� - in the real world, on the whole, no.
���� ���� ������������ ������ ������ ���������������������� - you'd need to see some more accurate data, but spending 1/3 more time in an area at similar or higher revs... sorry, but no.
���� ���� ������������ ������ ���������������� - maybe. Around schools or housing estates for sure.
���� ���� �������� ������������������ - £33m to implement and £4.5b (as admitted by the WaG)... ummm no.

Welsh Labour need to be questioned on their science and met with the real facts. Nobody in the the Senydd is doing this.

Can a petition be started to question their facts?

Please feel free to question the science here. But don't repeat tests on the road. 20 zones make a lot of sense in a lot of areas, but a blanket roll out is nothing short of stupidity.

Please, please don't vote for Welsh Labour in the next election. You don't have to vote Tory, just don't vole these idiots back in.

[Hilts]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

I got sent this today,

People have been questioning what driving at 20 does to a car.

So I thought I'd go to some private ground and find out. (I'll try and keep this as short as possible).

{Image} Car driving at:

���������� ���� ������ - the car is asking you to shift to second because the revs are too low at 1200rpm.

�es��������� ���� ������ - (strangely) the car is asking for 3rd, because the revs are high enough to change up to third at 1800 rpm to maximise efficiency.

���������� ���� ������ - car is perfectly fine.

This was done in a VW Golf with a 2.0tdi Bluemotion(edit) engine, a fairly normal car. And one that should have enough torque to pull a car at lower revs.

But it's not happy. This was done on the flat. If the road starts to incline, you're going to need to select 2nd. An auto box will be working overtime.

... and there goes any reasoning by Welsh Labour that 20 is better for the environment.

I can't say what this will do for engines and gear boxes - there will be a lot more engine lugging (strain). If you have a diesel, you really need to change if you only drive in areas that are 20, it will kill the DPF.

This style of driving is going to mean a lot more shifting, more drifting above the speed limit and an added distraction that will require extra concentration. You'll probably also see a lot of stalls.

Further, everyone will be bored from driving so slow and will pick up a mobile phone. So it's not safer.

Their argument "being hit at 20 is safer than being hit at 30" is correct. But it doesn't factor real-world logic. If drivers are distracted there is a huge increase in dangers, especially reaction time.

���� ���� ���������� - in the real world, on the whole, no.
���� ���� ������������ ������ ������ ���������������������� - you'd need to see some more accurate data, but spending 1/3 more time in an area at similar or higher revs... sorry, but no.
���� ���� ������������ ������ ���������������� - maybe. Around schools or housing estates for sure.
���� ���� �������� ������������������ - £33m to implement and £4.5b (as admitted by the WaG)... ummm no.

Welsh Labour need to be questioned on their science and met with the real facts. Nobody in the the Senydd is doing this.

Can a petition be started to question their facts?

Please feel free to question the science here. But don't repeat tests on the road. 20 zones make a lot of sense in a lot of areas, but a blanket roll out is nothing short of stupidity.

Please, please don't vote for Welsh Labour in the next election. You don't have to vote Tory, just don't vole these idiots back in.

Fair play. That made me laugh. 🤣

[TWGL1]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Fair play. That made me laugh. 🤣

It’s not funny at all it’s just another persons account of the testing he did primarily to debunk the claim that the 20 mph is beneficial to the environment.

Perhaps you could offer some alternatives to the post and quEsTion thE scieNCE

[JamesWales]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Nearly two thirds of people in Wales oppose this it seems. Of course, feelings are often different before an event rather than afterwards, once people have got used to it.

We shall see I guess.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/two-thirds-people-wales-dont-27700429

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

I’m not convinced about this new speed limit, but I’d put myself in the could be persuaded category. I’ve been looking for a reasonable article which sets out the pros and cons of the whole thing, this piece claims to do that, but I’m not sure about that.

https://theweek.com/transport/957358/pros-and-cons-of-waless-20mph-speed-limit

https://www.eta.co.uk/2023/05/05/myth-busters-20mph-speed-limits/

https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/road-safety/drivers/20-mph-zone-factsheet.pdfS

[superfeathers]

Re: Welsh speed limits - wtf!

Nearly two thirds of people in Wales oppose this it seems. Of course, feelings are often different before an event rather than afterwards, once people have got used to it.

We shall see I guess.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/p...-dont-27700429

Someone may want to point out to WOL that 61% isn't two thirds.
The interesting thing is, if the question was - 'Would you back 20mph in the streets around your home?' then you'd likely get above 90% saying yes.
The reality is that it's easier/quicker/cheaper to do a blanket change from 30mph to 20mph and given time and more local/council involvement, we'll see more main routes get changed back to 30. It just takes a bit of time.
So as it stands it won't work perfectly but given time, it'll be adapted and on smaller roads, we'll get used to it