40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I read it. A lot of words but it doesn’t even attempt to answer my question - or the similar points made by TBG.

But let it lie - I have lost interest and there is no possible response that doesn’t involve mental contortions and supernatural illogical feedback loops that will be meaningless to anyone outside the bubble. Life’s too short.

This one is indeed! OK, sorry you have lost interest but I'm happy to bow out of the discussion with you at this point.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

My first response to this is simple

If organised religion through bibles and churches and missionaries......to be a Christian is to be a missionary my mother always said ......

Cannot get through to those that need to be given the chance to accept your God.....then if God is all powerful then he should let these people .....billions of them .... into his kingdom

Everything regarding God and religion fails basic tests every time ....and if it fails holy people have another story or saying or reading ......or excuse

Sludge - I don't think there is anything more I can say to you to try to answer your questions. At the end of the day it's all about faith, a single step of faith. I wasn't born a Christian. I didn't become one until my late 30's having been a skeptic from my teenage years on. All I know is now I would not go back to my old way of life, I have a new life in Christ. It's not a life of ease, far from it, as Jesus has warned: "I have said these things to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation". (John 16:33). I have that peace but obviously being human I am clinging on by my fingertips sometimes!

Jesus has shown the way but you and the rest of mankind are free to do what you want, believe what you want, so let's leave it there eh. Maybe one day there will be that light-bulb moment for you too - I pray there will be.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

This one is indeed! OK, sorry you have lost interest but I'm happy to bow out of the discussion with you at this point.

And this is the problem

There is always a yes but no but yes

Your god is omnipresent and omnipotent ?

Yes

Well tell him through his army of followers ......you lot .....to stop the awful situation in the place you think his son wandered .....tell him to stop all this killing !

Oh he can't do that


But he's omnipotent and omnipresent! You say so !

Er .....change tack , quote some stuff someone possibly wrote in a book 2000 years ago


Actually , no thanks , I have heard enough , I am going to watch some TV, phone a friend , listen to some music, this is all absolutely ridiculous ........

But what about chapter 12 , verse .....?

And on it goes

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sludge - I don't think there is anything more I can say to you to try to answer your questions. At the end of the day it's all about faith, a single step of faith. I wasn't born a Christian. I didn't become one until my late 30's having been a skeptic from my teenage years on. All I know is now I would not go back to my old way of life, I have a new life in Christ. It's not a life of ease, far from it, as Jesus has warned: "I have said these things to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation". (John 16:33). I have that peace but obviously being human I am clinging on by my fingertips sometimes!

Jesus has shown the way but you and the rest of mankind are free to do what you want, believe what you want, so let's leave it there eh. Maybe one day there will be that light-bulb moment for you too - I pray there will be.

You believe Jesus has shown you his way

I don't believe in something that when asked to prove its existence completely fails

If someone is dying from cancer religious people get together and pray at the church

If he dies , it's God's will

If he lives for a while , it's God's will

It's covering every base I suppose

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Sludge - I don't think there is anything more I can say to you to try to answer your questions. At the end of the day it's all about faith, a single step of faith. I wasn't born a Christian. I didn't become one until my late 30's having been a skeptic from my teenage years on. All I know is now I would not go back to my old way of life, I have a new life in Christ. It's not a life of ease, far from it, as Jesus has warned: "I have said these things to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation". (John 16:33). I have that peace but obviously being human I am clinging on by my fingertips sometimes!

Jesus has shown the way but you and the rest of mankind are free to do what you want, believe what you want, so let's leave it there eh. Maybe one day there will be that light-bulb moment for you too - I pray there will be.

There's no proof that Jesus said as much (and not that most Abrahamists think that Jesus was the son of God in the first place). You have simply believed something written down by someone else way after the event and with no audit trail of proof whatsoever. Do you also believe in the talking snake, as reported in the Bible just because it was written down at some stage (and when Adam and Eve and their progeny would have been illiterate)?
This Christian god can't even get most people on the planet (i.e. the very people he created himself) to believe in 'him' and those that do don't all have the same perspective on who Jesus supposedly was or believe in the same collation of 'holy book'. Even the threat of eternal damnation doesn't do the trick.
Oh, and many of the stories in the Bible came from earlier religions in the vicinity; the virgin birth, the story of Noah (Ziusudra in Sumerian culture and who was re-packaged as Atrahasis in Old Babylonian culture and then as Ushnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh), the story of a Moses being cast adrift as a baby to avoid being murdered (as in Mesoptamian stories), the story of Moses and receiving the 10 commandments (extremely close to ancient Egyptian writings), the forgiving nature and ability to heal the sick (as Asclepius in Greek culture), the Virgin birth (as in the cases of Mars the ancient Roman god and Horus the ancient Egyptian god). One could go on ad infinitum.
It's all folklore and exceedingly fascinating. To believe one version of a so-called holy book as literally all true because it is stated in one particular compendium (and one that contains contradiction) is amusing. Christianity took hold due to the expansion of the Roman Empire and the subsequent expansion of those cultures affected.
Abrahamism simply demonstrates the endless schisms that take place in respect of religions (e.g. Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Baháʼí Faith, Samaritanism, Druze, Rastafari etc. Even Christianity has its own endless schisms; Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodism, Baptism, Lutheranism, Eastern Orthodox, Calvinism, Baptist, Pentecostalism etc etc etc).
In the absence of evidence, folklore is down to interpretation and it will be interpreted and and modified by its adherents as it goes along (and Christianity is simply a part of that process after taking onto The Torah (which itself lifted stories from elsewhere).
Whatever god you believe in, her/she/it isn't doing a great job in getting the majority of the world's population to believe in him/her/it - and religiosity is generally declining in countries where autocracy is not the flavour of government and where the population is educated.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

There's no proof that Jesus said as much (and not that most Abrahamists think that Jesus was the son of God in the first place). You have simply believed something written down by someone else way after the event and with no audit trail of proof whatsoever. Do you also believe in the talking snake, as reported in the Bible just because it was written down at some stage (and when Adam and Eve and their progeny would have been illiterate)?
This Christian god can't even get most people on the planet (i.e. the very people he created himself) to believe in 'him' and those that do don't all have the same perspective on who Jesus supposedly was or believe in the same collation of 'holy book'. Even the threat of eternal damnation doesn't do the trick.
Oh, and many of the stories in the Bible came from earlier religions in the vicinity; the virgin birth, the story of Noah (Ziusudra in Sumerian culture and who was re-packaged as Atrahasis in Old Babylonian culture and then as Ushnapishtim in the Epic of Gilgamesh), the story of a Moses being cast adrift as a baby to avoid being murdered (as in Mesoptamian stories), the story of Moses and receiving the 10 commandments (extremely close to ancient Egyptian writings), the forgiving nature and ability to heal the sick (as Asclepius in Greek culture), the Virgin birth (as in the cases of Mars the ancient Roman god and Horus the ancient Egyptian god). One could go on ad infinitum.
It's all folklore and exceedingly fascinating. To believe one version of a so-called holy book as literally all true because it is stated in one particular compendium (and one that contains contradiction) is amusing. Christianity took hold due to the expansion of the Roman Empire and the subsequent expansion of those cultures affected.
Abrahamism simply demonstrates the endless schisms that take place in respect of religions (e.g. Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Baháʼí Faith, Samaritanism, Druze, Rastafari etc. Even Christianity has its own endless schisms; Catholicism, Protestantism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodism, Baptism, Lutheranism, Eastern Orthodox, Calvinism, Baptist, Pentecostalism etc etc etc).
In the absence of evidence, folklore is down to interpretation and it will be interpreted and and modified by its adherents as it goes along (and Christianity is simply a part of that process after taking onto The Torah (which itself lifted stories from elsewhere).
Whatever god you believe in, her/she/it isn't doing a great job in getting the majority of the world's population to believe in him/her/it - and religiosity is generally declining in countries where autocracy is not the flavour of government and where the population is educated.

There are 10 .....interpretations .....of Christianity listed by you there ......I believe its said there are 30 ?

The Islamic faith is often criticised by western religious faith hipsters ........because there are differing strands and even islamists can't agree

I would say these Christians should attend to the fire in their own back yard first

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

There are 10 .....interpretations .....of Christianity listed by you there ......I believe its said there are 30 ?

The Islamic faith is often criticised by western religious faith hipsters ........because there are differing strands and even islamists can't agree

I would say these Christians should attend to the fire in their own back yard first

You can't put a number on schisms - as different individuals within the same schisms often disagree regarding interpretations, fundamental and otherwise.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

You can't put a number on schisms - as different individuals within the same schisms often disagree regarding interpretations, fundamental and otherwise.

Indeed it's all nonsense

A plague on all their houses

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Apols for taking this serious thread down a different track.

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Not having sufficient evidence to believe in a deity is a lack of dogma rather than a dogma, old fruit.

I know that I am ill equipped to have a debate with your good self on semantics sir.
However I do think that the word dogmatic can mean unwavering in opinion.

Copied from vocabulary.com

“To be dogmatic is to follow a set of rules no matter what. The rules might be religious, philosophical, or made-up, but dogmatic people would never waver in their beliefs so don't even think of trying to change their minds”.

I find the atheist movement becoming more and more zealous as well as intolerant and disrespectful to people of faith.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I know that I am ill equipped to have a debate with your good self on semantics sir.
However I do think that the word dogmatic can mean unwavering in opinion.

Copied from vocabulary.com

“To be dogmatic is to follow a set of rules no matter what. The rules might be religious, philosophical, or made-up, but dogmatic people would never waver in their beliefs so don't even think of trying to change their minds”.

I find the atheist movement becoming more and more zealous as well as intolerant and disrespectful to people of faith.

Not being convinced of something due to a lack of evidence at a particular juncture in time is not dogmatic, old fruit. If evidence appears in due course and is convincing then I will take it on board. That's not exactly never waivering in a 'belief'. (I don't have a 'belief' as such, at this point in time).

You may believe in talking snakes and donkeys but I am not aware of any evidence to back it up. Similarly, I have no access to evidence about deities with elephant heads, eagle heads or a horse's torso. You probably don't believe in the latter three or thousands of other gods that have been worshipped so does that make you dogmatic by your own projected logic?

Are you really not able to understand the difference between being unconvinced due to a lack of evidence of something (although understanding that new evidence may indeed be discovered and be taken into account in due course) and being so dogmatic that whatever you are convinced of is unassailably correct whilst all alternatives are incorrect?

I think the dogmatism is one way here, old fruit. You are merely projecting.

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Not being convinced of something due to a lack of evidence at a particular juncture in time is not dogmatic, old fruit. If evidence appears in due course and is convincing then I will take it on board. That's not exactly never waivering in a 'belief'. (I don't have a 'belief' as such, at this point in time).

You may believe in talking snakes and donkeys but I am not aware of any evidence to back it up. Similarly, I have no access to evidence about deities with elephant heads, eagle heads or a horse's torso. You probably don't believe in the latter three or thousands of other gods that have been worshipped so does that make you dogmatic by your own projected logic?

Are you really not able to understand the difference between being unconvinced due to a lack of evidence of something (although understanding that new evidence may indeed be discovered and be taken into account in due course) and being so dogmatic that whatever you are convinced of is unassailably correct whilst all alternatives are incorrect?

I think the dogmatism is one way here, old fruit. You are merely projecting.

Not being certain in this case I would say is being agnostic not atheist.

You have made an assumption as to what I believe and disbelieve.
I’m not a believer in one true religion.
If someone believes in the son of Shiva…all power to them.

Are you able to understand that you have about as much of a clue regarding the origins of the universe as I do?
For all we know we could be part of a big simulation and your view on it carries no more weight than any devout Muslim or Hindu.
Higgs-Boson was held up as a scientific deity up until recently and now we are back still trying to find out more….which i think is a good thing.

Also, if you don’t mind…I’d appreciate it if you could define your understanding of the word “dogmatic” and if it is acceptable to be used in a non theological context.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

The first dictionary definition of atheism I found on Google comes from 'Oxford Languages':


a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
"he is a committed atheist""

'Or lacks belief'covers it, methinks.

I haven't stated how much I know about the origin of the universe and haven't suggested that I know more than you, old fruit. I don't have a problem in not knowing some things that seem unfathomable at this time. I just don't believe many of the Iron Age and Bronze Age explanations for such things.

We both know that dogmatic is used in a wider context than just regarding things theological and I have explained that my view on such things is not unchangeable, as I have explained. I don't tell other people what to think (including my religious friends) but I am happy explaining why I'm not religious.

Rather than the ad hominem stuff and discussing the different meaning of words (very important, I grant you) would you like to tell us about your world view (as mine is non-commital)? If not, and you want it to remain personal, I do understand.

I have no need to lock horns with you for the sake of it.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Not being certain in this case I would say is being agnostic not atheist.

You have made an assumption as to what I believe and disbelieve.
I’m not a believer in one true religion.
If someone believes in the son of Shiva…all power to them.

Are you able to understand that you have about as much of a clue regarding the origins of the universe as I do?
For all we know we could be part of a big simulation and your view on it carries no more weight than any devout Muslim or Hindu.
Higgs-Boson was held up as a scientific deity up until recently and now we are back still trying to find out more….which i think is a good thing.

Also, if you don’t mind…I’d appreciate it if you could define your understanding of the word “dogmatic” and if it is acceptable to be used in a non theological context.

For 20 or so years the accepted wisdom - provided by the scientific community - was that everything started with the 'big bang'. Disgracefully some people dared ask 'what was there before the big bang ?'. They came up with 'there was another big bang before that one.". Well that's settled that then !!

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

The first dictionary definition of atheism I found on Google comes from 'Oxford Languages':


a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.
"he is a committed atheist""

'Or lacks belief'covers it, methinks.

I haven't stated how much I know about the origin of the universe and haven't suggested that I know more than you, old fruit. I don't have a problem in not knowing some things that seem unfathomable at this time. I just don't believe many of the Iron Age and Bronze Age explanations for such things.

We both know that dogmatic is used in a wider context than just regarding things theological and I have explained that my view on such things is not unchangeable, as I have explained. I don't tell other people what to think (including my religious friends) but I am happy explaining why I'm not religious.

Rather than the ad hominem stuff and discussing the different meaning of words (very important, I grant you) would you like to tell us about your world view (as mine is non-commital)? If not, and you want it to remain personal, I do understand.

I have no need to lock horns with you for the sake of it.

A lack of faith is inaccurate as all individuals place faith in multiple things on a daily basis.
More specifically, it's the desire to believe that I am not accountable to any greater being, so I can live my life without any ultimate consequences whatsoever.