40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

[Gofer Blue]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Mazyouna Damoo, her mother and her sister (all injured in the same Israeli attack) crossed into Jordan early this morning. Her father was not allowed to go with them and has been left behind in Gaza. I can't see any details of when they will be able to travel on to the USA for surgery and further treatment.

This may be 'an answer to your prayers'. But I think it is more likely a response to negative international press coverage that was causing major embarrassment to the Israeli government. But the vast majority of the 2,500 children in Gaza in the same position did not get that level of international exposure and are going nowhere.

Thanks for that update. There has been a lot of negative international press coverage about the whole Gaza situation but I don't see much in the way of embarrassment within the Israeli government!

I don't expect to get a reply from the Israeli ambassador but if I do I think it will say something along the lines of "look, we ARE helping the Palestinian children - we have allowed the girl you named to leave with her mother and sister to go to Jordan" and quietly forgetting about the thousands of others as you say.

Let's see how this case works out. I'd be happy to write to the ambassador again and remind her of these anonymous children who are in a similar position. As you may remember I posted a while back that I have already written to my previous M.P. and the previous Home Secretary about a Kindertransport type scheme for Palestinian children but this idea has been rejected out of hand because of the sheer scale of the problem; but if limited to just those children who are in need of immediate surgical intervention, then in conjunction with medical charities it may be viable?

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

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That reply will have been noted.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

That reply will have been noted.

By yor invisible, secret friend? Wow!

[the other bob wilson]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I am saying nothing has changed since the days of David, God has (for reasons only known to Himself) chosen one race of people to be the race that He ultimately blesses the world with, He already knew in advance of their disobedience when He made the *promise to their father, Abraham, yet He honoured and continues to honour that promise. I'm sure like many of us, He is appalled at their recent actions, and not for the first time. However as His prophet Zechariah stated around 520BC, Jerusalem would prove to be “An Immovable Rock for all Nations” (12:3). Anyone with even a passing interest in history would be be aware of this.

* That promise - “I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you. (Genesis 12:2-3)

I don’t pay much attention to what you post normally, but you’re a Christian aren’t you? Are you seriously saying that all Christians have no alternative but to pardon the atrocities Israel has committed in 2024 because of what 12:3 of what I presume is the book of Genesis says?

If you aren’t a Christian and you’re a Jew, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of them who would have a problem with your interpretation based, as it is, on the book which says the world was created in six days.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/nov/22/sport-may-be-a-blunt-tool-of-social-change-but-its-time-to-take-action-against-israel

About time this sort of article appeared in the mainstream media. No surprise who wrote it.

....

And last Monday, there was global outrage at the killing of two Gazan footballers, Eyad Abu-Khater and Hisham Al-Thaltini, in Israeli air strikes.

Obviously I’m joking about the last one. Nobody gave a shit about that. Or any of the 344 Palestinian footballers killed by Israel since last October, or the fact that teams from Israel’s West Bank settlements play in their domestic league in violation of Fifa rules, or that the Palestinian West Bank league has been suspended indefinitely.

In the face of this, inaction begins to feel like its own conscious choice. It’s six months since Fifa promised a prompt ruling on whether or not to impose sanctions on Israel’s national team for the actions of its government, and we’re still waiting. It’s four months since Israeli athletes competed at the Olympic Games after the International Olympic Committee president, Thomas Bach, declared: “We are not in the political business.” It’s two months since a major Israeli assault on Jenin, in the occupied West Bank, destroyed the town’s main football stadium.

....


But we know, or we should know, right from wrong. Killing children is wrong. A government that declares some humans as more worthless than others is wrong. Presiding over a famine is wrong. How is this complicated? How is this the start of a debate, rather than the end of one? How is it remotely possible to frame this horrific extravaganza of violence as the benign option, and the resistance to it — even when it comes from Jews themselves — as some kind of sublimated hatred, rather than the simplest act of conscience there is?

To resist this Israeli regime is not incompatible with resisting a Saudi World Cup or a Russian Olympic team or a Taliban ban on women’s sport. Indeed this is one and the same resistance: a resistance to the doctrine of untouchable power, a resistance to violence and othering as the solution to our common problems. And even if sport is a blunt and pointless tool of social change, it must nonetheless be deployed. Because there remains – even in this warped, ****ed fairground mirror of a world – a thing called right and a thing called wrong.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

I don’t pay much attention to what you post normally, but you’re a Christian aren’t you? Are you seriously saying that all Christians have no alternative but to pardon the atrocities Israel has committed in 2024 because of what 12:3 of what I presume is the book of Genesis says?

If you aren’t a Christian and you’re a Jew, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of them who would have a problem with your interpretation based, as it is, on the book which says the world was created in six days.

In contrast, I do pay attention to much of what you post as I too have watched the City for a long time, in my case almost six decades and already knew many of the characters in your chosen profile picture when they were in their prime (from 67/68). Your spiritual outlook is similar to many born in the 1940's and I have had the pleasure of discussing these issues on faith and Israel with many of your generation - some people are still happy to do that without getting a swift nosebleed. Two points to raise from your initial comment:-

1. Yes, I've been a Christian since 1968, and as I tried to point out using the example of King David, God did NOT approve of his behaviour on more than one occasion in his young life; yet after his deep regret and change in attitude (repentance), God honoured the promise made to Him and he went on to be a superb King.
So just like I (and any other reasonable Bible believers) do not pardon the actions of the leaders of Israel, we also recognise that there is a bigger picture playing out here. This doesn't provide Israel with a blank cheque and the ability to do as they wish as far as God is concerned, and if they (as in the case of David) don't react to recent history as God would want them to do, and if they continue to have at any point an inappropriate attitude towards fellow human beings in the future, then they will be held accountable. What you (and others) need to consider as an agnostic/ atheist, is why justice/ accountability/ human rights matter at all; if we are all the result of a chance random process, then why would anything be right or wrong? Atheists seem to want to borrow such qualities from the Laws written on our hearts by a God who doesn't exist?

2. I assume your 6 days comment is a reference to the fact that any rational human being, and certainly a respected scientist would not entertain such a notion, as science has blown away the idea of a 'young' earth and six days.

Here is an article published by the Guardian in 2006, I have heard many lectures by Professor Andrew McIntosh, who is Professor of Thermodynamics at Leeds, also Professor Stuart Burgess, Head of the Department of Mechanical Engineering at Bristol University.
I have spoken with both of these men who would be delighted to answer your questions on more technical matters and why they hold to God's account of creation. As you can see from the article, there is a massive scale of difference between both positions, but the more popular position may not be as watertight as you and others may expect.

[jon1959]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

'What you (and others) need to consider as an agnostic/ atheist, is why justice/ accountability/ human rights matter at all; if we are all the result of a chance random process, then why would anything be right or wrong? Atheists seem to want to borrow such qualities from the Laws written on our hearts by a God who doesn't exist?' (Truthpaste - 22 November 2024)

What a load of arrogant, self-obsessed cobblers.

Justice, accountability and human rights are not the preserve of one strand of 'god botherers' - if it is their preserve at all (much of the evidence says otherwise). People of other religions and none are social animals, and we have developed concepts of justice and rights without reference to a stone/bronze age set of tribal foundation myths from the eastern edge of the Mediterranean.

Acceptance of the theory of evolution in no way undermines the social framework that many different people have developed over recent millenia and over very different parts of the planet.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

'What you (and others) need to consider as an agnostic/ atheist, is why justice/ accountability/ human rights matter at all; if we are all the result of a chance random process, then why would anything be right or wrong? Atheists seem to want to borrow such qualities from the Laws written on our hearts by a God who doesn't exist?' (Truthpaste - 22 November 2024)

What a load of arrogant, self-obsessed cobblers.

Justice, accountability and human rights are not the preserve of one strand of 'god botherers' - if it is their preserve at all (much of the evidence says otherwise). People of other religions and none are social animals, and we have developed concepts of justice and rights without reference to a stone/bronze age set of tribal foundation myths from the eastern edge of the Mediterranean.

Acceptance of the theory of evolution in no way undermines the social framework that many different people have developed over recent millenia and over very different parts of the planet.

Most of the popultion of the planet aren't Christians but seem to have moral codes of various descriptions (and some are a lot less cruel than the acts of "God" in The Bible). It's truly laughable to think that truthpaste's deity informs even those who don't believe in it.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

'What you (and others) need to consider as an agnostic/ atheist, is why justice/ accountability/ human rights matter at all; if we are all the result of a chance random process, then why would anything be right or wrong? Atheists seem to want to borrow such qualities from the Laws written on our hearts by a God who doesn't exist?' (Truthpaste - 22 November 2024)

What a load of arrogant, self-obsessed cobblers.

Justice, accountability and human rights are not the preserve of one strand of 'god botherers' - if it is their preserve at all (much of the evidence says otherwise). People of other religions and none are social animals, and we have developed concepts of justice and rights without reference to a stone/bronze age set of tribal foundation myths from the eastern edge of the Mediterranean.

Acceptance of the theory of evolution in no way undermines the social framework that many different people have developed over recent millenia and over very different parts of the planet.

Untrue, as in using the evolutionary model of the survival of the fittest, Hitler sought to fast-track this idea by promoting those he considered to be 'superior' and removing those he considered to be 'weaker'.
Your other point about man-made religions is weakened by the fact that the majority borrow the Biblical teaching of considering your fellow 'man' to be greater then yourself, which in fact is a million miles from the idea that is evolution.

[JamesWales]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Israel ceasefire with Hezbollah.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/26/netanyahu-speech-israel-hezbollah-ceasefire-latest/

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Israel ceasefire with Hezbollah.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...sefire-latest/

Excellent, I hope they now have the sense to keep their missiles north of the Israeli boarder.

[stevo]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Excellent, I hope they now have the sense to keep their missiles north of the Israeli boarder.

Yes and that Israel keep their missiles south of the Lebanese border and allow humanitarian aid into Gaza and that Hamas releases any remaining hostages.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Yes and that Israel keep their missiles south of the Lebanese border and allow humanitarian aid into Gaza and that Hamas releases any remaining hostages.

Iran have already said they will rebuild Hezbollah and even in July this year Newsweek reported:

"There has been a significant escalation in Hezbollah rocket attacks targeting Israel since October 7, with a total of 13,931 rocket alerts, averaging out at 47 per day"

So let's get some proportion here, Hezbollah has been bombarding Israel constantly for years, and long before this new Iran/ Israel development - we are not reporting for the BBC

[jeepster]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Iran have already said they will rebuild Hezbollah and even in July this year Newsweek reported:

"There has been a significant escalation in Hezbollah rocket attacks targeting Israel since October 7, with a total of 13,931 rocket alerts, averaging out at 47 per day"

So let's get some proportion here, Hezbollah has been bombarding Israel constantly for years, and long before this new Iran/ Israel development - we are not reporting for the BBC

Aggression is not confined to Hezbollah and Hamas do you not think about what is happening in the West Bank?
People burnt out of their homes by settelers with the help of the IDF.

[truthpaste]

Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

Aggression is not confined to Hezbollah and Hamas do you not think about what is happening in the West Bank?
People burnt out of their homes by settelers with the help of the IDF.

So when a point is made re Hezbollah you switch to a separate conflict? I, and almost everyone on this board have expressed an opinion that certain individuals in Israel have a lot to answer for when all the facts emerge re the details of the situation in Gaza. I don't believe every single claim but I do call for a comprehensive investigation and full accountability and justice from both sides when all the dust has settled.