Hitler.

[truthpaste]

Re: Hitler.

If I had superpowers was feeling particularly malevolent one day, I might give someone the power of walking for just a few seconds in a very public setting and in front of their family and friends, and then quickly withdraw it forever.

Not for ever - NB.
Nobody is lame in eternity.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hitler.

Agnostics or Theists, God for some reason doesn't do things the way we think He should!

But let's consider the bigger picture. Does a 30 year old father always do things the way his 3 year old son thinks he should?
Obviously not, because the father is aware of what is good or bad for his son, what is safe or dangerous for him too. What makes the difference in this case? 27 years more life experience, wisdom and learning from his own mistakes and those of others too.
The father loves the son, and because of that often says no or wait. Does the son always understand? No, particularly when he knows his dad is quite capable of giving him what he wants. Yes dad can afford that swiss army knife but for some reason says 'no' (?)

The intellect contrast between us and an omniscient (all knowing) God is far far greater than the illustration above, yet apart from that, God knows at least two other things that dad (above) doesn't know. God knows the future, so his decisions are partly based on that. Secondly, God has an eternal perspective on us. We as humans plan from cradle > coffin, God saw us even before we were conceived, our earthly life, and the plight of our eternal soul & spirit. People having considered this then seem to assume that because God has foreknowledge, He somehow has already decided our fate; this is NOT the case, He leaves each of us free to accept or reject Christ Jesus as Gofer has already mentioned (the Bible confirms this).

"If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" - Romans 10:9

Exactly what I predicted

Happy hour at Pete and Bernis philosophical steakhouse

If God knows the future , is all powerful ....that's what you lot think .....then if he knows the Israelis we're going to bomb loads of innocent kids .....then he should have seen it coming and used his power to stop it

Your answer? ......man has freewill .....so its not gods fault .....the get out clause ....and can't do everything ....even though one of his selling points is supposed to be he can do everything and is everywhere , all the time

And of course we are here in the form of Jesus who is younger than God so less wise ....so another yeah but no but yeah get out clause

You have covered all the bases there but you ain't ever fooling me

[lardy]

Re: Hitler.

So you're ok with your god toying with innocent people in our world?

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Hitler.

Well if god is great he needs to send Jesus again and again, not just once every 2000 years

It wouldn't make any difference if he came every year, especially in these "technologically superior" times when AI can be used to fake anything, giving the skeptics all the ammo they need to reject him. I think I have said to you before, if Jesus turned up at your house today you would find a multitude of reasons to deny him as your mind is already made up.

Re: miracles. I was being honest in my report about the lad with spina bifida. It is the only miracle I have witnessed myself in over 40 years as a Christian and I have no explanation as to why he never walked again. Why would you be surprised that this event took place in a church? How often would a stranger approach a boy (who he doesn't know) in a wheelchair in a public space and tell him to get up and walk? Not too often I suspect. I thought for a moment you might have proposed that a mass-hallucination event had occurred, which is a popular "explanation" on occasions.

[truthpaste]

Re: Hitler.

Exactly what I predicted

Happy hour at Pete and Bernis philosophical steakhouse

If God knows the future , is all powerful ....that's what you lot think .....then if he knows the Israelis we're going to bomb loads of innocent kids .....then he should have seen it coming and used his power to stop it

Your answer? ......man has freewill .....so its not gods fault .....the get out clause ....and can't do everything ....even though one of his selling points is supposed to be he can do everything and is everywhere , all the time

And of course we are here in the form of Jesus who is younger than God so less wise ....so another yeah but no but yeah get out clause

You have covered all the bases there but you ain't ever fooling me

Yes, and even more shocking - from our limited perspective - God knew in advance the temporary success that Hitler would have against His People, the Jews, yet He didn't prevent it. So once again even when things would appear to be a mystery to us, God allows mankind's rebellion to play out, for reasons that our limited intellect and limited perspective cannot fathom?

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Hitler.

If I had superpowers was feeling particularly malevolent one day, I might give someone the power of walking for just a few seconds in a very public setting and in front of their family and friends, and then quickly withdraw it forever.

I was being honest in my report about the lad with spina bifida - I could have left it at the point where he got up and walked and left you to assume that he was totally healed. It is the only miracle I have witnessed myself in over 40 years as a Christian and I have no explanation as to why he never walked again. If God is love then it is impossible for him to be malevolant, so that is not a possible explanation. It is one of the questions I will have when I get to heaven, among others. Unfortunately I suspect I will not be able to publish any answers on the forum

[truthpaste]

Re: Hitler.

So you're ok with your god toying with innocent people in our world?

Innocent people? Never met any?

How are you defining innocent?

[lardy]

Re: Hitler.

Innocent people? Never met any?

How are you defining innocent?

I'd call a baby born with spina bifada to be innocent.

Maybe you think that a newborn is being punished.

[truthpaste]

Re: Hitler.

I'd call a baby born with spina bifada to be innocent.

Maybe you think that a newborn is being punished.

Not for one minute, your question presupposes a formula that God singles out individuals for punishment?

What are you basing that assumption on?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hitler.

It wouldn't make any difference if he came every year, especially in these "technologically superior" times when AI can be used to fake anything, giving the skeptics all the ammo they need to reject him. I think I have said to you before, if Jesus turned up at your house today you would find a multitude of reasons to deny him as your mind is already made up.

Re: miracles. I was being honest in my report about the lad with spina bifida. It is the only miracle I have witnessed myself in over 40 years as a Christian and I have no explanation as to why he never walked again. Why would you be surprised that this event took place in a church? How often would a stranger approach a boy (who he doesn't know) in a wheelchair in a public space and tell him to get up and walk? Not too often I suspect. I thought for a moment you might have proposed that a mass-hallucination event had occurred, which is a popular "explanation" on occasions.

If God and Jesus shows me they exist then I am on the bus to paradise with you lot

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hitler.

Yes, and even more shocking - from our limited perspective - God knew in advance the temporary success that Hitler would have against His People, the Jews, yet He didn't prevent it. So once again even when things would appear to be a mystery to us, God allows mankind's rebellion to play out, for reasons that our limited intellect and limited perspective cannot fathom?

So this God knows that bad things are going to happen , has the power ...according to the omnipotent theory ....to stop them but doesn't?

The Jews have been on the end of some savage treatment since god said they were his people .....hundreds of years of murder and abuse ....but god hasn't done anything to help them?

Doesn't that tell you either God isn't that great and loving or.....he doesn't exist ?

[truthpaste]

Re: Hitler.

So this God knows that bad things are going to happen , has the power ...according to the omnipotent theory ....to stop them but doesn't?

The Jews have been on the end of some savage treatment since god said they were his people .....hundreds of years of murder and abuse ....but god hasn't done anything to help them?

Doesn't that tell you either God isn't that great and loving or.....he doesn't exist ?

Well isn't it true that in the majority of cases that our parents allow us to go our own way, make our own decisions, however much they may know that those decisions will lead to grief. However none of this means they love us any less, and if they did try and tell us to take the opposite direction they would (in most cases) be met with derision!
God deeply cares for each one of us; and knowing that we are all only experiencing the opening chapter (no matter how old we are) of our existance, then He has intervened with a rescue mission to solve our deepest problem.
You already know all about Christ's death on the Cross which has paid the penalty for our rebellion against God. If we choose to ignore that offer of being equitted by taking Christ as our Saviour then that is our own choice.

This guy did accept God's offer > Clarence.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hitler.

Well isn't it true that in the majority of cases that our parents allow us to go our own way, make our own decisions, however much they may know that those decisions will lead to grief. However none of this means they love us any less, and if they did try and tell us to take the opposite direction they would (in most cases) be met with derision!
God deeply cares for each one of us; and knowing that we are all only experiencing the opening chapter (no matter how old we are) of our existance, then He has intervened with a rescue mission to solve our deepest problem.
You already know all about Christ's death on the Cross which has paid the penalty for our rebellion against God. If we choose to ignore that offer of being equitted by taking Christ as our Saviour then that is our own choice.

This guy did accept God's offer > Clarence.

So the Jews massacred by Hitler....

The ones murdered by the nazis rejected Jesus?

A young man goes to church until he leaves for university

Becomes a doctor , saves lives

Starts a new job , goes on holiday with his wife , drowns , dead

38 , life ahead of him

Has he been punished for rejecting god ? He seems like the perfect fit for heaven

How does he fit in with your theory of God?

Why didn't God save him and why did he let nazi war criminals escape to South America?

How is this human sin or human failure ?

What's the point of God if he's going to deal with things in such a scattergun approach ?

[truthpaste]

Re: Hitler.

So the Jews massacred by Hitler....

The ones murdered by the nazis rejected Jesus?

What are you basing this assumption on?

A young man goes to church until he leaves for university, Becomes a doctor, saves lives, Starts a new job, goes on holiday with his wife, drowns, dead. 38, life ahead of him. Has he been punished for rejecting god ? He seems like the perfect fit for heaven

What makes him or anyone at all a 'perfect fit for heaven' (???)

Why didn't God save him and why did he let nazi war criminals escape to South America?

The question should be, why DIDN'T God prolong his life to a normal lifespan?
Why did God allow Nazi's to live any longer than their victims?

This question is really about Judgment and Justice:- if this life is all there is, how could justice ever come for Hitler, Saville and the Nazis you mention above, and the answer is > Justice could NOT be delivered. However if the Bible is the Truth, then it can.
This would be an excellent topic in it's own right.

How is this human sin or human failure?
Human sin (natural rebellion) leads to failure, suffering and death - God's Word teaches this.

What's the point of God if he's going to deal with things in such a scattergun approach?
He doesn't, but from our limited perspective it might seem that way

Feel free to come back on any or all of the above.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Hitler.

Feel free to come back on any or all of the above.

Loads of Christians say that we all have the chance to accept God

If we don't?

Well clearly its fair to assume that God let's people die who dont buy into his system

And clearly looks after those that accept him

Because either things happen by chance ....or God is involved ....and he decides

You can't have it both ways